Troll Lord Games

For Pathfinder and Swords and Wizardry. I would guess C&C fans might be more interested in the S&W version, unless you also play/run Pathfinder, then that ill be the better buy for you.

This is going to be a MASSIVE and EXPENSIVE tome, since it will cover something like 960 monsters. I also read there will be variants of a number (unknown) of the monsters included, which will be the only new material. If you have bought both of the Pathfinder Bestiaries you will find this a little less of a value since a small number (I don't know what the number is) of these monsters have been done in those books.

Expected release is Summer of 2011, and I for one am looking forward to this, despite owning all of the original 3E versions.

I saw the annoucement, and even though many suspected this was coming, I was still BLOW'D AWAY! What I never thought was going to happen was that ALL THREE TOMES would be combined into a single monster book. That's 960 monsters. Awesome.

~O

Interesting Tree. As I am looking to run a Pathfinder game, I'll go that route. Thanks for the info. Hopefully my local gaming store has it or can order it in. At that size, it would cost me hundreds in shipping, lol.

I have all 3E versions as well.
L.S.

I'm curious if they really mean "all" of them or most minus the ones that cannot be redone like carrion moth. Still, it should be cool. I'd care more if I used either game.

Thought about using S&W but decided I preferred OD&D.

Really? A lot of the Tome of Horrors monsters are already in PF Bestiary I and II. Still, more monsters is never a bad thing. (Well, for me, anyway....)

Only 10% of the Tome of Horrors monsters are in Pathfinder Bestiary I & II. Plus, I think this has more of an impact on the Swords & Wizardry Complete game. Almost all, if not every one, will be new to that game. 960 more monster for S&W Complete means 960 more monsters for my C&C games too!

~O

Count me in for a copy of the S&W version!

Omote wrote:960 more monster for S&W Complete means 960 more monsters for my C&C games too!
~O

That was my first thought too, but then again, I have the original three 3.x books. I'm not sure having S&W stats will be a big advantage over 3e stats for C&C play.

Frost wrote:

Omote wrote: I'm not sure having S&W stats will be a big advantage over 3e stats for C&C play.

Definitely not for lower level monsters, but the higher level they get, the more feats, skills, and powers they have, the longer it takes to decide how to adapt them. That is when the S&W version will be handier.

I also have copies of TOH I-III, but I'm not sure a stickler for the stat conversions. Ultimately it doesn't matter to me, but what does is portability. Having the S&W version just seems like it would be easier to use at the table, or carry to the table.

~O

Of course it does. One book is usually easier than three. Unless the one book is so unwieldy as to be near useless. Big Blue Book, I'm looking at you.

Omote wrote:I also have copies of TOH I-III, but I'm not sure a stickler for the stat conversions. Ultimately it doesn't matter to me, but what does is portability. Having the S&W version just seems like it would be easier to use at the table, or carry to the table.

~O

Just think, if they do the PF version up to Paizo standards that is going to be over 450 bound pieces of full color paper. Going to feel like a work out every time it is picked up. On the other hand, that should mean the S&W version will be under 230 bound pieces of paper. Since S&W won't have to follow one entry per page and won't have massive stat blocks increasing the page count.

Bill said it will not be colored. Too expensive.

I replied to Bill on The Acaeum regarding this.

I'm not Clark, but on the issue of the Tome of Horrors being open game content, according to my copy of Tome of Horrors revised, the entire book is open with the exception of the artwork and the credits section for each monster. Each monster though is going to have to be cited individually in your S15 of the OGL (pursuant to pages 450-451 of the aforementioned book). Just the S15 cites alone is going to be 16 pages of the book, assuming 10pt text.

Definite thud factor. The legalese will knock me dead.

After his response, which was "10 point font? Heck, I have to include it, but maybe 4 point font?" I asked the obvious question: whether he got clearance from Clark to reuse the Tome of Horrors artwork, since that isn't open game content.

I'm sure he does (EDIT: I didn't know who he was, thus the question), and I wish him lots of luck with this task. I just don't know if in the second Great Depression a $100 RPG book is going to sell well.

I'll definitely pick up the S&W version to use with C&C.

Traveller wrote:I replied to Bill on The Acaeum regarding this.

I'm not Clark, but on the issue of the Tome of Horrors being open game content, according to my copy of Tome of Horrors revised, the entire book is open with the exception of the artwork and the credits section for each monster. Each monster though is going to have to be cited individually in your S15 of the OGL (pursuant to pages 450-451 of the aforementioned book). Just the S15 cites alone is going to be 16 pages of the book, assuming 10pt text.

Definite thud factor. The legalese will knock me dead.

After his response, which was "10 point font? Heck, I have to include it, but maybe 4 point font?" I asked the obvious question: whether he got clearance from Clark to reuse the Tome of Horrors artwork, since that isn't open game content.

I'm sure he does (EDIT: I didn't know who he was, thus the question), and I wish him lots of luck with this task. I just don't know if in the second Great Depression a $100 RPG book is going to sell well.

He is only looking to print 500 copies, I am sure he will sell through.

Plus if he can get all the old artists to sign on to the release of this book, which he is going to have to do anyways, he won't need to cite them from the old book. He needs, and presumably will have, permission to use the artwork again. Otherwise he will be commissioning a lot of new art.

So he will only need to cite them like they were done in the first printings.

and yes, I saw here he posted how expensive it would be to do full color for his print run. $55,000.00!! Yeah, stick with good old black and white. I hope he can keep it under a $100 book, but I find that doubtful. Printing costs have still been going up while the economy has been going down.

I'm definitely going to pick up a couple of copies. This could (and should) be the best monster book ever produced. And personally, I'm fine with it being in black and white. Color seems like a waste unless it was with all new artwork.

~O

Over on the NG boards, froggie says that one of the qualifications for this book is going to be the "Thud Factor." Haha, can't wait.

~O