Star Wars prequels. Was it really all that bad?

[finarvyn]

Concerning the plot holes...come on guys get a life. Its something he made up for Pete's sake.

I agree to a point, but also think on the other hand that he had years in between movies to think things through. He also had lots of fan websites and fan magazines with all kinds of suggestions if he got stuck. And he had to know that fans would be looking for plot gaps.

He should have cared more, that's all. We do.

[Sir Ironside]

For the first time I agree with Sir Ironsides!

Even the impossible can be possible! Though I honestly didn't know we disagreed so much.

Concerning the plot holes...come on guys get a life. Its something he made up for Pete's sake.

Well I guess this is where we part ways again.

First, I have a life, thank you very much and some of the parts are occasionally posting on forums and watching movies.

When people put things out there, other people will have opinions, in this case this applies to both forums and movies. In both cases some posts are good, some movies are good, some posts are bad and some movies are bad. In movies there are plenty of reasons why they are bad. Casting, writing, editing, acting etc. etc. If there are some, one or all that becomes glaring, it pulls me out of the escapism that I wanted to enjoy in the movie. The prequels did that for me and it had nothing to do with me being a fanboy and dissecting every nuance (Mostly because I'm not a fanboy and don't care about books, comics or whatever not being canon.), it had everything to do with just sloppy, bad writing. Even Natalie Portman couldn't save that script. These failings aren't reserved for just Star Wars, it applies to pretty much every movie I watch and the expectations I have for it. (I don't go to a comedy expecting a drama.) The Star Wars prequels just hit all the wrong buttons for me when I wanted more of what the original Star Wars was about. I don't see this as an outrageous expectation, considering it was created by the same man. I'm sure Mr. Luca's intentions where good, but the execution went horribly wrong.

Now if you don't mind I'll get back to my life.

[Jason Vey]

Not for nothing, but I realized recently that I find myself re-watching the prequels far more often than the original trilogy, which is telling unto itself.

No, the prequels are not bad. Indeed, they're great Star Wars movies, if you can watch them the way you watched the originals, that is to say, as a kid. Shut off your adult brain and stop looking for eloquent turns of phrase and deep character development beyond that already handed to us by archetypes from time immemorial. Here's a news flash: the acting, dialogue, and story was pretty bad and cheesy in the original three as well, if you turn off the nostalgia lens when you watch them.

[serleran]

Other than the idiotic CG, some of the prequels are OK. Some. I immediately get annoyed by "obvious" computer effects, regardless of the movie -- I even dislike Gollum. But, if that's taken aside, which I know others Lady over, then I could almost consider them. Might like them more if the "real trilogy" meant something to me, but they do not.

[Traveller]

"Star Wars prequels. Was it really all that bad?"

No. That is all.

[Sir Ironside]

No, the prequels are not bad. Indeed, they're great Star Wars movies, if you can watch them the way you watched the originals, that is to say, as a kid. Shut off your adult brain and stop looking for eloquent turns of phrase and deep character development beyond that already handed to us by archetypes from time immemorial.

Here's a news flash: the acting, dialogue, and story was pretty bad and cheesy in the original three as well, if you turn off the nostalgia lens when you watch them.

I grow tired of people telling me just how I should watch the original three.

I just watched the original three, again, earlier this year. They are three very good films. They are masterpieces, in themselves for, I think, the first real space-opera type movies. Sure they aren't as brilliant as; No Country for Old Men, Citizen Cane, (There really should be a law like Godwin's law for when using; Citizen Cane in a statement.) The Godfather, There Will be Blood, Fargo etc. but, again I went into Star Wars expecting a space soap opera and that is what I got. I'll disagree about the dialogue, that dialogue fit well within what the movie was to be presented as. Plus the fact that the movies where written in a way that it was easy to care about the characters and to remember scenes from the movie, something the prequels lack all over the three. The use of black and white to drive the characters also fit well within a space opera setting. I didn't realize I didn't want shades of grey for characters until I watched the original three. I usually like movies where the boundaries of good and evil are closer together. Star Wars lends itself, as a better story, having the good guys and bad guys really stand out as good vs. evil.

Like I said, Mr. Lucas seemed to really care about these things with the first three and just mailed it in with the prequels. I could have easily forgiven the CGI tour-de-force had he made any kind of attempt at growing the characters making me give a damn about them. Instead I found myself, at times, routing for the bad guys.

[Traveller]

I don't watch the Star Wars saga to explore the human condition. That is Star Trek's job. I watch Star Wars mostly for the action.

Star Wars changed the rules of the game, but a science-fiction version of Kurosawa's The Hidden Palace is not a tour de force by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, Star Wars is clearly derivative and clichéd, as already noted. What makes Star Wars good isn't so much the talky bits, but the action.

The prequels did not have as much action in them, especially The Phantom Menace. This, along with the (over)use of CGI, are why the prequels are seen as substandard to the original trilogy. Yet I find the prequels to be as entertaining as the original trilogy. Why?

Because while action is god in Star Wars, pathos is king. The two together make the whole engaging. Just don't spend too much time thinking about it.

[Just Jeff]

Star Wars changed the rules of the game, but a science-fiction version of Kurosawa's The Hidden Palace is not a tour de force by any stretch of the imagination.

I've watched The Hidden Fortress and Star Wars back to back. Other than using a pair of comically combative peasants as pivotal characters, I didn't see a strong correlation. Not like Seven Samurai to The Magnificent Seven or Yojimbo to A Fistful of Dollars. I agree, however, that there's nothing original in Star Wars. Given Lucas wanted to tell an archetypal story a la Campbell, no surprise there.

I think my preference for the prequels over the originals comes down to the action. While FX has gone through big changes, I'm pretty forgiving of old FX. However, action on the big screen has also improved, and I'm not as forgiving of old action. (Compare the Luke/Vader duel in Empire with the Obi-Wan/Anakin in Revenge.)

[Falinor]

Back in the late 80s, in a Star Wars USENET, I stumbled across GL's 'leaked' treatment of the prequels. It mentioned Obi Wan fighting Anakin fighting on a lava planet. George did have an idea where he wanted to go, even back then.

From mostrojoe
---- The Looney Toons style battle between Jar Jar and the droids ruins the whole movie
If it is sped up and set to the Benny Hill theme it is much more tolerable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYfibSaDHrM
Start about 1:20

The prequels are decent. They have spots of brilliance and spots of flat-out garbage. I would have liked to see less Anakin/Padme romance and more dogfights in space.

[Pilgrim]

I'm somewhat indifferent about them, though the third movie was the one that bugged me the most. It felt as if it was rushed to show the transition from Anakin to Vader. In the end of the flick, when Vader steps out of the box, the only thing I could picture was this kid wearing pajamas that were too large, it just somewhat ruined it for me after that. I think they could have handled it a bit better.

[Sir Ironside]

In the end of the flick, when Vader steps out of the box, the only thing I could picture was this kid wearing pajamas that were too large, it just somewhat ruined it for me after that. I think they could have handled it a bit better.

Even watching it for the first time I gather the whole concept was an homage to Frankenstein's monster. To this day I find that scene hilarious. I can't put my finger on it but the audience I was sitting with were either quiet, groaned or laughed with me.

[finarvyn]

Back in the late 80s, in a Star Wars USENET, I stumbled across GL's 'leaked' treatment of the prequels. It mentioned Obi Wan fighting Anakin fighting on a lava planet. George did have an idea where he wanted to go, even back then.

I remember George denying the lava planet thing way back in the 1970's-80's, at roughly the same time he was saying something about 9 ... no, 12 ... er, 9 again ... movies. I'm sure he had a general notion of the history of the characters, but I doubt that he really had a master plan. If you read The Secret History of Star Wars you get an interesting look at the evolution of Star Wars from the early "Flash Gordon" days to the eventual saga.

I'm somewhat indifferent about them, though the third movie was the one that bugged me the most. It felt as if it was rushed to show the transition from Anakin to Vader.

I still wish it had been written so that a new viewer could watch I-VI in order without "spoilers" in III. I felt that this one thing was the biggest flaw in all of the series. (I can handle Jar-Jar and other stuff like that. My kids liked it.) Movie III totally kills both "I'm your father, Luke" and the whole Luke-Leia twin thing.

[tylermo]

I know what script you're refering to. I bought it at a Doctor Who convention in the 1980's. I believe it was called Star Wars III: Fall of the Republic. Seems like there was a reference to a lava planet. It's somewhere in this house, I'm just not sure where. That said, it could have been a non-Lucas, bootleg piece of sh!t. Imd like to read it again. Also curious if the first two "scripts" were ever available.