Troll Lord Games

What are your thoughts on how WOTC releasing the Back Catalog (in somre form or fashion) will affect the Old School Revival? I've seen a few blogs about the subject, one on mythmere which is right in the middle of their Swords & Wizardry Complete kickstarter. IMHO, I think it will acutally help out. Especially if WOTC can come up with a liscensing agreement to use "For AD&D, OD&D, BECMI, 2nd AD&D, etc." I could easily see adding to sales of both OSR publishers and WOTC, as now the could become and "officially liscensed" product.

Besides the business side, I think with so many Retro-clones, Retro-Nexts, etc. using various rulesets would have minimal impact, consider the success of the Flailsnails. Anyway, interested in hearing your thoughts.

I don't think it will affect anything, and I honestly do not care. I don't buy any "OSR" products and I will continue to not buy them.

These were available when the "movement" started, and bowels rumbled on both ends, so there is no need for concern now.

TheMetal1 wrote:What are your thoughts on how WOTC releasing the Back Catalog (in somre form or fashion)

Well, it depends on the "form or fashion"...

And it depends whether WOTC means they're only going to publish a catalog or the old modules and rules. I'd prefer the modules and rules. Already have LOTS of catalogs, including a 19th century Sears catalog. (Remember Sears, boys & girls?)

Also if my wife or I get a job.

serleran wrote:I don't think it will affect anything, and I honestly do not care. I don't buy any "OSR" products and I will continue to not buy them.These were available when the "movement" started, and bowels rumbled on both ends, so there is no need for concern now.

Yeah, you're probably right, RPGs will continue to be around in some form or fashion and both D&D Next and all pervious version, along with the OSR will continue. But for reference, when I use the term OSR, I do include Castles & Crusades in the mix. I'd heard murmurs and muddles of tension way back in the day, but never unearthed really what the issue was other than some felt C&C was not "old school." I for one am not one of them, and when I introduced C&C to my old high school gaming group, one of them said, "This just like we used to play."

Arduin wrote:Well, it depends on the "form or fashion"...

Very true, as mentioned in the "Other Games" thread about PDF vs. E-Reader vs. Proprietary Digital Format vs. Print vs. Subscription vs. (as a nod to YoYo) simply a catalog.

MormonYoYoMan wrote:And it depends whether WOTC means they're only going to publish a catalog or the old modules and rules. I'd prefer the modules and rules. Already have LOTS of catalogs, including a 19th century Sears catalog. (Remember Sears, boys & girls?)

Also if my wife or I get a job.

I had a reprint of a 19th Sears century catalog back in the 20th century (80s IIRC)! Quite a trip down memory lane, I think I was a bit partial to the Brand Names catalog, I'd jump straight to the back to look at all the toys. But in now that I'm in the 21st century, I simply click on the Troll Lord Game Store link.

TheMetal1 wrote:I'd heard murmurs and muddles of tension way back in the day, but never unearthed really what the issue was other than some felt C&C was not "old school."

The upshot is that certain immature individuals were upset because Castles & Crusades wasn't simply going to be AD&D reprinted, but a system that utilized up-to-date game mechanics to support the B/X or AD&D style of play. To them, any use of the d20 System was heresy to worship of the "one true game".

Yes I speak a bit sarcastically in that last sentence, but the other part of the problem was that these individuals treated the AD&D rulebooks as the word of God and couldn't handle the reality that only WotC/Hasbro could actually reprint the AD&D rules. Thus they sought to "prove" that it could be done. OSRIC was the first, followed by a slew of others. The legality of all of them is debatable, but only because Hasbro hasn't bothered to pursue the issue. The simulacrum games are simply beneath Hasbro's notice.

Like Serleran I refuse to have anything to do with OSR products. Supporting such products supports the mentality behind it: slavish and dogmatic devotion to a set of rules rather than having fun.

I don't really know how it will effect anybody. I'm just kind of excited to see what they're going to do ultimately. I'm tired of searching for the adventures on ebay from sellers who don't do a good job of describing the condition and want to charge an arm and a leg for 12 pieces of paper from 30 years ago. Hopefully Wotc will produce some good products, either reprints or PDFs at a good price. There are lots of old modules I'd love to run using C&C rules but I never had a chance to buy them or play them back in the day.

On a side note, others have mentioned some factions in the OSR regards to C&C. I guess I joined the C&C boat a bit late to see that. I'd be curious to hear what happened, or be pointed to a resource to learn more. I always thought C&C and OSR kind of got along. Seems like they should. I like LL and have enjoyed alot of stuff they've put out. But I'm not particularly political or dogmatic when it comes to my RPGs. I pretty much try to see the up side of things.

re: OSR & C&C, it seems to me that most OSRs .. where R is Rules .. try to simulate the old rules and/or subjective playing experience of individual OSR designers.

C&C seems more like how D&D should've been in the first place, if they'd had time, experience, and modern printing abilities. It is a fine point, I grant, but enough to affect the attitude of the GMs and the designers. Although there are similar requests for rules clarification and arguments about rules, C&C gives a better balance between simulation and playability, with a HUGE nod to the GM who can make it better for his group. Some of us still wear scars from the One True Way Wars.

Aas to WOTC's Back Catalog, I am ordering some porkback, some chicken backs, and a paperback writer.

MormonYoYoMan wrote: C&C seems more like how D&D should've been in the first place, if they'd had time, experience, and modern printing abilities.

I think of C&C as what "3rd Edition" should have been...

Arduin wrote:

MormonYoYoMan wrote:C&C seems more like how D&D should've been in the first place, if they'd had time, experience, and modern printing abilities.

I think of C&C as what "3rd Edition" should have been...

+1 to this! 3E took a very different direction than AD&D and I like to think that C&C took the best of AD&D and blended it with some streamlined rules. Much better than 3E turned out, IMO.

Man, I've been away for awhile and it's nice to see some things (such as serleran's disdain for the OSR) never change...

Seriously, Ser...tell us how you REALLY feel!

I'm not interested in what WOTC does - back catalogue or not. I was collecting D&D material years before there was a collectors' movement, and since that time I've acquirred an almost complete run of the game's publications. I've gotten pretty much everything I need, so I won't be waiting with bated breath.

The Egg