Troll Lord Games

I was thinking the other day about how the C&C PHB could be used to update AD&D (1e or 2e). If you treat the PH as an Unearthed Arcana type book you can change the system to be more in line with modern versions of AD&D but retain the feel of the game.

Here is a partial list of what I have seen could happen:

[*]Classes, Races and Stat bonuses port over pretty much without conversions. In fact you can use them in place of the AD&D descriptions with no changes.

[*]Equipment lists remove the S/M and L damage categories and begin moving AC toward the better ascending system.

[*]The SIEGE Engine makes NWPs easier to use.

[*]Monsters convert almost seamlessly with only a recalculation of AC and THAC0 to the ascending system.

[*]If you want to use the AD&D Attack Bonuses/THAC0 they are easily converted to the Ascending system.

Beyond that, a few changes to the spells and you're good to go. In my version of this I would remove the 0-9 level spells in favor of the AD&D system.

Has anyone else tried this?

Nope. I've only done the reverse, use 1E in my C&C. Which you pretty much do by reversing the language of everything you have posted above.

Then again, thats why I went with C&C, because I wanted to use my OD&D, 1E, 2E and 3E D&D all under one system. I played 1E for about 7 months this past year (2012). While I enjoyed it, and found it to be no where near as horrible some on line forum posters would like people to believe, I am happy that the DM finally switched it to C&C when we were 6th level.

If I were to "go back", it would be with 2E D&D, without the "options" books. Using the SIEGE engine as the skill system for 2E is a very intriguing idea.

The idea has been kicking around in my mind for some time but moved to the forefront when my new group had mainly AD&D material. They liked the changes in C&C but wanted to still play 2e so I began working on it. As far as books go we are only using the core books, Tome of Magic, and the Arms and Equipment guide the only other addition is the few Monster Compendium supplements and Annuals that I have. C&C is used as a supplement with most of the changes noted in my DM notebook. Oh, and I do have Core Rules plus the expansion but use it for reference as the character creator doesn't want to work with my changes.

In all honesty, my main love in the hobby is AD&D, specifically 2e. This may have to do with my coming into the hobby at that time.

I actually came to C&C because I was working on a large house rule document (12 pages or so) for AD&D 2e. I made most of the changes you suggested in my document. I just like the simplicity of C&C over AD&D and all of the material I have for 2e ports over with no fuss. So, in essences, I'm playing AD&D 2e using C&C classes and resolutions.

If you want to look at my 2e doc, let me know and I'll shot it out to you.

R-

I came into D&D in 1985. So it was 1E AD&D and OD&D for me, along with Paladium Fantasy. I just like 2E best, without the "options" books. All of them, including the "kit" books they did. When I run my C&C games I am usually using my 2E Monster books. Unless I like the C&C version better, such as Vampires and Dragons.

I started playing in 1982, OD&D, we quickly went to AD&D which I have been primarily playing since.

I like to add certain aspects of 2ed into it, but once I started playing C&C, the flow of each session is smoother than any other system I have ever played.


The closest to come to C&C smoothness was dragon quest.

When I am running a C&C campaign, I am using a lot of 1ed and 2ed material to compliment the beauty of C&C.


I love the 2ed monster compendiums and spells from just about any system a player can get their hands on. I ofcourse make players roleplay magically researching any non C&C spell.

Some of the players guides from 2ed are silly but some give some legiticy to races and clases by going into detail concering the classes for people who are new to rpg.


Its all about what works for you and your group. What works for the group today might not work for the next campaign of players.


use what ya can and enjoy not rolling your dice


Use Your Illusions People and the rest comes with the fun !

I have changed how the SIEGE Engine works for saves, making it more in line with AD&D. Therefore, I already play that way. I do not use all of C&C, nor do I use all of AD&D, but my players like the seeming simplicity of C&C and dislike the variant "rules" of AD&D with some high, some low... but, in any event, one correction and the two systems can be integrated without much hassle. I often use more stuff from AD&D in C&C than the reverse, though, usually minor tidbits that got abandoned (such as elementals needing magical weapons to harm.)

Rigon wrote:I actually came to C&C because I was working on a large house rule document (12 pages or so) for AD&D 2e. I made most of the changes you suggested in my document. I just like the simplicity of C&C over AD&D and all of the material I have for 2e ports over with no fuss. So, in essences, I'm playing AD&D 2e using C&C classes and resolutions.

If you want to look at my 2e doc, let me know and I'll shot it out to you.

R-

I cut my teeth with 2e, and by the end of college, which coincided wiht the end of 2e, we were using most of the books and optional rules (adding them slowly over time made it seem easy) but then to get back into it later I was like... woah. and C&C filled the bill nicely with it's elegant Siege engine.

but my point is: I'd like to see that doc, if you don't mind.

Relaxo wrote:

Rigon wrote:I actually came to C&C because I was working on a large house rule document (12 pages or so) for AD&D 2e. I made most of the changes you suggested in my document. I just like the simplicity of C&C over AD&D and all of the material I have for 2e ports over with no fuss. So, in essences, I'm playing AD&D 2e using C&C classes and resolutions.

If you want to look at my 2e doc, let me know and I'll shot it out to you.

R-

I cut my teeth with 2e, and by the end of college, which coincided wiht the end of 2e, we were using most of the books and optional rules (adding them slowly over time made it seem easy) but then to get back into it later I was like... woah. and C&C filled the bill nicely with it's elegant Siege engine.

but my point is: I'd like to see that doc, if you don't mind.

Click on the link in my sig. It's called AD&D 2nd Edition Revised.

R-

Just a quick thought on spells: It is fairly easy to use the AD&D style system where arcane casters get levels 1-9 and divine get 1-7 in C&C. Most of it ports over nicely with minimal changes to spell descriptions. If using 2e as a base you would need to reconcile how Illusionists and Druids are handled.

I would suggest making lists using a guideline from 1e or C&C to get the spells to line up. As far as the changes to the Illusionist in later C&C printings you can fold the 0-Level spells into Level 1 spells and just add the spells in from there.

Rigon wrote: Click on the link in my sig. It's called AD&D 2nd Edition Revised.

R-

For some reason it won't let me in.

Julian Grimm wrote:

Rigon wrote: Click on the link in my sig. It's called AD&D 2nd Edition Revised.

R-

For some reason it won't let me in.

I'll have to look into it.

R-

Just so you know; what it does is goes straight to my dropbox account.

If I can't figure out how to open out up, I can email it.

R-

So, apparently, Dropbox doesn't let you have an "open" folder anymore. I'll have to look into finding somewhere else to store my files. But until I figure it out, I emailed my 2e doc to JG. If anyone else is interested, send me a PM with your email and I'll get it out to you.

R-

Rigon wrote:So, apparently, Dropbox doesn't let you have an "open" folder anymore. I'll have to look into finding somewhere else to store my files. But until I figure it out, I emailed my 2e doc to JG. If anyone else is interested, send me a PM with your email and I'll get it out to you.

R-

Weird. I just got an e-mail a week or two ago about "Dropbox links", making it easier to share files than ever before.

Thanks, Rigon.

I tried the link option on my account and we'll what it does. If it works clicking it should link you to the C&C version of Beacon at Enon Tor.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/60ku4pn5dw9cp7h/beacon.pdf


Let me know if it works.

Julian Grimm wrote:Thanks, Rigon.

I tried the link option on my account and we'll what it does. If it works clicking it should link you to the C&C version of Beacon at Enon Tor.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/60ku4pn5dw9cp7h/beacon.pdf


Let me know if it works.

Yep. I was able to do it without signing in.

Cool. I have put most of my C&C files up there. Once I get the rest up I'll try making the whole folder available.

I'll have to mess with it.

R-

Treebore wrote:

Rigon wrote:So, apparently, Dropbox doesn't let you have an "open" folder anymore. I'll have to look into finding somewhere else to store my files. But until I figure it out, I emailed my 2e doc to JG. If anyone else is interested, send me a PM with your email and I'll get it out to you.

R-

Weird. I just got an e-mail a week or two ago about "Dropbox links", making it easier to share files than ever before.

The links function lets you share with a group more easily, not have a general open file that anyone can go to with the right address.

R-

We'll get it figured out. The problem with places like Dropbox is that it is wanting to 'combat' supposed piracy. The problem with places like 4shared is that they are not very trustworthy. Kind of a rock and a hard-place, if you ask me.

Anyway. . .

Played my first game with the changes to AD&D last weekend and it worked like a charm. I only had a couple issues and I am still working out how to handle Thieves/Rogues. I like the more customizable aspect to the 2e system but hate percentages. When I tried a system that added bonuses converted from the percentiles the numbers got a bit on the high side.

Julian Grimm wrote:We'll get it figured out. The problem with places like Dropbox is that it is wanting to 'combat' supposed piracy. The problem with places like 4shared is that they are not very trustworthy. Kind of a rock and a hard-place, if you ask me.

Anyway. . .

Played my first game with the changes to AD&D last weekend and it worked like a charm. I only had a couple issues and I am still working out how to handle Thieves/Rogues. I like the more customizable aspect to the 2e system but hate percentages. When I tried a system that added bonuses converted from the percentiles the numbers got a bit on the high side.

You could switch to a straight bonus based off of the percentage, but cut them in half.

R-