Troll Lord Games

Yesterday, I saw a mention of Gygax Magazine, which obviously made me think of Gary Gygax.

I thought I'd mention my encounters with Arneson and Gygax.

Dave Arneson was my GM for "Adventures in Fantasy" at a convention (in South Bend around 1983 I think). He was friendly and made the game a fun experience. For the life of me I don't remember much about the actual game though....wondering if anyone else ever played it?

Gary Gygax was at the TSR booth at Gen Con in 1984 and perhaps was having a bad day? We were next to the booth when a 10 year old kid and his father came up to have his Players Handbook signed. Well...Gary proceeded to ask if the kid had just bought the book from TSR at the Con and when the kid said "no, I brought it from home", Gary laid into him. Needless to say, that was about the last time I bought anything with his name on it.

Curious if others of had any personal experience with these to or other gaming "founders"?

I only got to talk to Gary in the last few years of his life. I met him for the first time at GenCon 2006 or so when he was working the Troll Lord Booth. My experience in talking to him, fairly extensively, about his Castle Zagyg project left an impression. First off, Gary was a pretty stern fellow at times and hung closely to his thoughts and theories. It was hard to convince him about his property (Castle Zagyg), which I understand. When not talking about Castle Zagyg, we chatted a bit about AD&D. He believed in that game, tried and true. His only remark to me regarding his personal writings were the Psionic abilities from AD&D. He said to me something along the lines of, "I really screwed those rules up. I wish I could have done them again." He laughed a lot about how bad those rules were when I talked to him. But the one that that was really cool is that, at least in his later years, when he wasn't talking about gaming, he was a pretty warm fellow. He seemed like he liked to laugh a lot and liked to tell his stories. That was pretty cool, and much different from when we were talking about his professional projects.

~O

Yeah, my experiences with Gary were that he was a good guy, very open to talking to us fans, to the point where he even exchanged a long series of e-mails with me just talking about stuff, mostly game related, such as my daughters campaign world she was creating, and my wife's and I's experiences in the military, etc... Then he told me about Luke being in the military, and hooked me up with him, etc... So my impressions of him are very positive. I never really interacted with Arneson. I don't recall ever actually meeting him. I just know that in general, people speak well of him too.

I only interacted with Gary on the 'net. He was stern, opinionated and came of as a bit rude at times when it came to gaming. The other side of the coin was that he was a very hospitable and warm person with a quick wit and great sense of humor. I saw him be very cordial to those that came to D&D by way of 2e or 3e. I also admired his convictions on his faith (We talked about such things in PM) even though we disagreed on some points.

All in all, he seemed a normal person with all of the good an bad qualities that we all have.

As far as Dave goes, I never had the pleasure of talking to him. However, all of the stories I have heard about him are positive and he seemed a very nice and open fellow.

I met Gary a few times and gamed on his front porch with him as DM. I talked with him at Lake Geneva Con more than a few times. We exchanged a few emails. He was a good guy, if a bit tired of all the 'fame' (my impression). He was personable and nice, never rude or condescending.

I met Frank Mentzer and talked with him a bunch over various cons. Frank is... happy with his fame. He knows a lot about gaming in general and has some cool stories about Gary and TSR. I just get the feeling he would like to charge you $5 to tell you. I was present when he was interviewed by some magazine (Wired?) about the early days and got to hear him recount a lot of stuff. That was cool. But he has always seemed a bit pompous.

Tim Kask is, well, Tim Kask. You'd never know he was fired from TSR by Gary for being a choad. He acts as if he was one of the Founding Fathers of Dungeons & Dragons. He was the first employee hired by Gary, pretty sure he was one of the first fired as well. He tried starting a rival magazine to compete against Dragon but it failed horribly (thanks to Ronald Reagan if you ask him). He returned to teaching but came back to gaming when the retro wave hit.

Jim Ward is probably one of the nicest guys I ever met.

Tom Wham was nice, but he had that, "Oh great. Another 40-something nerd that liked my drawings in the Monster Manual". When I told him I had been in the Navy (like he was) and started to talk about that instead of D&D, he warmed up.

Never met Arneson.

No direct contact, but I bought an old Dragon magazine from Tom Wham several years ago (the one with the FILE 13 board game he designed, if you remember that), and he included a nice little note and an original drawing of a weird little character he was working on. I thought that was pretty cool of him.

I had a nice encounter with Gary one year at Milwaukee GameFest (the short-lived con that was held in Milwaukee after GenCon left). He was sitting around after signing a bunch of stuff and I stopped in and said something to the effect of "I don't want to bother you for a signature. I just want to thank you for creating a game that has become a lifetime passion for me." And I shook his hand. I think it surprised him that I wasn't pestering him an autograph and he just sat around talking about games with me for a while.

AGNKim wrote: He tried starting a rival magazine to compete against Dragon but it failed horribly (thanks to Ronald Reagan if you ask him).

Ronnie was anti gaming mags???

Arduin wrote:

AGNKim wrote: He tried starting a rival magazine to compete against Dragon but it failed horribly (thanks to Ronald Reagan if you ask him).

Ronnie was anti gaming mags???

I'm not real sure. Kask just curses Reagan for the failure of the magazine. Had nothing to do with his inability to make a good magazine.

AGNKim wrote:

Arduin wrote:

AGNKim wrote: He tried starting a rival magazine to compete against Dragon but it failed horribly (thanks to Ronald Reagan if you ask him).

Ronnie was anti gaming mags???

I'm not real sure. Kask just curses Reagan for the failure of the magazine. Had nothing to do with his inability to make a good magazine.

My question was rhetorical. Kask sounds like he took WAY too many drugs. Ron had nothing to do with his failure as a publisher.

Arduin wrote:

AGNKim wrote:

Arduin wrote:

AGNKim wrote: He tried starting a rival magazine to compete against Dragon but it failed horribly (thanks to Ronald Reagan if you ask him).

Ronnie was anti gaming mags???

I'm not real sure. Kask just curses Reagan for the failure of the magazine. Had nothing to do with his inability to make a good magazine.

My question was rhetorical. Kask sounds like he took WAY too many drugs. Ron had nothing to do with his failure as a publisher.

I know, I just take every opportunity to elevate Reagan and if I get the chance to ridicule Kask, then bonus.

Kask always struck me as a johnny come lately with a me too personality.

Julian Grimm wrote:Kask always struck me as a johnny come lately with a me too personality.

I don't know Tim personally, but wasn't he part of TSR going back to the late 1970's? He was lead editor for Dragon magazine back then, I think. Anyone who has been in the industry for 30+ years doesn't fit my concept of a "Johnny come lately."

Johnny come lately may be a bit off but, when Kask did show up at Dragonsfoot I found him more than a little abrasive. Also his almost instant attacks on Dave Arneson was a big turn off for me. However, I will give credit where it is due and say I found Dragon a much better magazine under his watch than that of any other.

I can envision a Disney movie where that 10 year old kid that got chewed out by Gygax grows up to create a super-popular card game, becomes a billionaire, and ends up buying Gygax's old company...






PS- not sure why Gygax did what he did...again maybe having a bad day or maybe he was starting to get pushed out at that time and the pressure was getting to him. In any case, even us relative youngsters thought "Man, that guy really has to work on his people skills."

Still trying to research "Adventures in Fantasy"....would like a copy or at least a look at the character sheet.

Adventures in Fantasy is really not that great of a game. It is useful if you want to make a skill system for a game but it has quite a few flaws that detract from it. I have heard someone was looking at making a clone of AiF that would fix a few of the problems but have no idea if it is still being worked on.

I met Dave Arneson two times. I want to say GenCon 05 and perhaps 07. Seems like he was at all of the GC's between 05 and 08. Anyway, he was very personable, and he signed my late 70's AD&D books. He was doing the cosplay thing, and was dressed as a wizard. My friend, Alan, was along in 07. We found the booth Arneson was at, as my friend wanted to get some books signed. Once again, very friendly. He even gave my friend a signed picture card of himself. He politely declined a photo op, as he was in a wheelchair that year. Perhaps it was 08 when he was asked to give some sort of rousing speech outside the exhibitors hall. That was the last GenCon for him.

As for Gary, I only met him once online, and once in person. It must have been 2006 or 07? Having known some of the Trolls since 03 and the rest since 05, I knew of Gary's affilliation with the company. Crusader 2 was the start of his "How it all Began" series. Anyway, I was on the forums and noticed a person or two calling this Col. Pladoh guy...Gary. I soon realized it was Gygax. I pm'd him to say hi and thanks, or whatever. At the time, I had worked in radio for many years and inquired about a possible interview. He gave me a phone number and e-mail, and said he'd be happy to do it. Unfortunately, our market was taken over by a larger one, I became third string and never got to do the interview. Of course, 2007 marked a return to GenCon for Gary. He was at the TLG booth. There were pre-signed Zagyg folios, and he was signing autographs and taking photos. I did the line like everybody else. He was very polite. Told him I started gaming in the early 80's, and mentioned my budding friendship with Stephen and Todd, and heaped praised on the rest of the Trolls. He signed my late 70's/early 80's corebooks. Took a pic with him. presumably on an undeveloped disposeable camera. That's another story. I always wanted to go to LGGC because I always figured Stephen could get me into one of the Gygax porch games. Oh well. My experiences were good, but I'm sure he could have his moments just like a lot folks. He did give chances and opportunities to younger folks in the industry...the Chenaults, Matthew Cutter (now Deadlands Reloaded author and brand manager) and Jeffrey Talanian. So, more good than bad I would think.

Since were talking about other D&D folks...Tim Kask...i know I'Ve been around him very briefly at the last GC. He was immersed in conversation with Stephen at the time. Might have been at Gary Con 2012, or other GenCon's. My talk time would have been very brief or not at all. Can't rememeber. I enjoyed his writings (in Crusader) about the old days. Also agreed with his retort to someone after somebody's sons released a magazine at one point. Not trying to dredge that up...

Frank Mentzer...saw him a few times at various cons. Only significant talk time was at the Troll booth at this year's GenCon. Talked a little bout the Trolls. Always bragging on those guys. My check's in the mail, right Stephen? Also, ended up discussing something that Marv(?) or somebody posted about some of the things that proceeded D&D. I think it was gathering of Gary and friends playing a homebrew game called Braunstein (?). We talked for 5-10 minutes. Told him TLG would also be at GameHole, and I said we'd see him there. Seemed ok to me. Think I met him briefly at Gary 2012, as well.

James Ward...First met him at TrollCon 09. I got there a lot earlier than most, and saw somebody sitting in the gaming areas at the hotel. Turns out it was Jim. of course, I had Gamma World 1st and 2nd, and Towers of Adventure (I think) with me. He signed them, and we talked a bit about those days, and maybe about Moldvay dying, etc. Surprise surprise, I told him about my friendship with the Trolls and how I was thrilled he was working with them. Mentioned Crusader and the upcoming Gods and Monsters, Tainted Lands, etc. Super nice guy! Later in the weekend, I played in his Tainted Lands demo. Jim has his own style, and makes for a fun game. I met him again a month later at GenCon. In recent years, I would see him on Shane Hensley's (Deadlands/Savage Worlds) Facebook page, as well as Troll's fb. I pm'd him a time or two about Tainted Lands, or to express well wishes regarding a health hurdle at the time. Saw him a time or two at Gary 2012 as he was on the mend. In recent months, TLG was contacted to participate in Game Hole Con. Upon finding out Jim was a guest, it was suggested that he gm a game for us. I asked Stephen to contact him, and then I was to work out the details. I contacted James via fb, and he asked me to call him Jim. haha He gave me his contact info, and was very cooperative. Didn't talk any fanboy stuff on the phone, but he was keen to talk about Beneath the Dome, his work with Eldritch Entertainment, and his excitement over the eventual release of Storyteller's Thesarus. The man is running a game for us at GH, two or three others, and conducting one or two panels. Hoping to work out autograph times at our booth. Just an absolute class act. Hope I'M not too busy to get some chat time in.

tylermo wrote:. . . I always wanted to go to LGGC because I always figured Stephen could get me into one of the Gygax porch games. . .

You know, the one thing I miss about the 'old days' around here was the LGGC. I never made it to one but I wish it had not gone the way of the Dodo. I know there is GaryCon now but it is not the same.

I only "met" Gary in person once. It was at the LGGC in 2007. I was too nervous to go up and speak to him. I found out later that I was actually gawking at Tom Wham. D'oh! Gary was there somewhere. I conversed with him briefly on Dragonsfoot in later years and he was very nice.

I played in Frank Mentzer's home game for several years. He is a great guy.

I played in a convention game with Tim Kask at Gary Con 1. His play style is a little loose for my tastes, but he was very nice and creative. We've also chatted through Dragonsfoot and a phone call to wish him a happy birthday once. He was always very pleasant and personable.

Celebrity is a harsh mistress. If you have a bad day, people will repeat the story forever on the internet. I'm glad my poor behavior has largely been anonymous over the years.

Julian Grimm wrote:

tylermo wrote:. . . I always wanted to go to LGGC because I always figured Stephen could get me into one of the Gygax porch games. . .

You know, the one thing I miss about the 'old days' around here was the LGGC. I never made it to one but I wish it had not gone the way of the Dodo. I know there is GaryCon now but it is not the same.

I've been to both and enjoyed both immensely. GaryCon is both better and worse due to its larger size.

I think the thing with LGGC was that it was almost like a rebirthing of the original GenCon and the early days of the hobby. There was a lot of promise in those days with C&C just coming out, Castle Zagyg in the works and ideas were flowing like water. It seems like something was lost after the loss of Zagyg and LGGC that just hasn't been recaptured.

Maybe it is just me having the rare nostalgia fit, but I miss the magic of those days.

Interesting stuff I found yesterday on the origins of D&D (this is about a manuscript showing Arneson's contributions, etc.):


http://boggswood.blogspot.com/2012/05/b ... ons-d.html