And the campaign hath ended....

[Inkpot]

Yes, my long-running C&C campaign has finally come to an end. As with any campaign, it was fun and exhausting and there were both encouragements and disappointments. My campaign involved the Crna Ruk attempting to bring Unklar back to Aihrde using his cloven horn that was stolen from Prince Morgeld of Eloria. There were many, many attempts at dramatic flair and PC involvement, however players appearing and disappearing in the campaign made this extremely difficult at best. I tend to tailor my adventures around the players and when a chunk of the adventure suddenly isn't able to be there anymore....heh.

In the end, though, the players were able to keep Unklar from returning to Aihrde, but not without sacrifice. Rhiannon, the reluctant cleric-turned-witch (yeah, homebrewed character class) gave up her life to keep Unklar from gaining firm purchase on the material plane.

All in all, I'm pretty satisfied. I feel like the end of the campaign was a bit rushed on my part, but overall I'm pleased. Will I run another C&C campaign soon? Probably not. I need a looooong break from CKing (I've been running this campaign for roughly six months). I had hoped that someone would get excited enough about C&C to run their own campaign that I could play in, but no such luck.
At any rate, at the end of it all, my players only had two real criticisms:

1. Character advancement is too slow (this is probably more my fault than a deficiency in the system itself).

2. There needs to be more *real* benefits for character classes as they level. Players complained that there was little in the rules to make them *want* to level their character. A level 3 X-class is not much different than a level 4 X-class beyond a few more hit points.

So that's about it. Good game, good campaign, fun times. What more could a guy ask for? =)

Ink
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[Omote]

Keep the CKing alive man. Don't let your players fall into the abyss that is modern D&D. Crusaders like yourself is what keeps C&C the marvel of gaming that it is. The players want more "stuff" in their C&C games, well give it to them! You've already added your own classes, there's nothing stopping you from adding your own C&C-ized skills, feats, abilities, spells, etc. Want to keep players happy, drop a little bit more loot or EPs and make the next game a little bit different... how aboput a post-apocalyptic C&C campaign?

Just like movies, not every campaign is OSCAR worthy. You take what you've learned from your experince, etrapolate and Crusade on.

Whatever your decision, remember the Crusade goes with you.

Best,

..............................................Omote

FPQ
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[Deogolf]

Don't stop CKing!!

Yeah, we all like to level up, but a really good one-off adventure is alot of fun too (i.e. Needle, Baltron's Beacon, etc). Sometimes having NPCs to play and sacrifice is cool! Doing things that you normally wouldn't try with a regular PC can add some spice!
Wish I had to time to game more than I do!

[Inkpot]

No no, I'm not stopping C&C for good. I just need a break! In addition to my C&C campaign, I'm also running *WEEKLY* game demos for game systems that I don't know how to play - which means I have to LEARN said game system in a week's time....I've got CK burnout.
Rest assured, I will return to C&C after a hiatus.
Ink
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[Treebore]

Yeah, your players do seem to be asking for "feats", so give it to them. I know my kids and I really like my feat like actions. Then again none of us are the 20 something D&D player who believes they know how the game should be ran and played. Just a 40 year old who thinks that way.

[Jynx]

Inkpot wrote:
Yes, my long-running C&C campaign has finally come to an end. ...There were many, many attempts at dramatic flair and PC involvement, however players appearing and disappearing in the campaign made this extremely difficult at best. I tend to tailor my adventures around the players and when a chunk of the adventure suddenly isn't able to be there anymore...

As I read this, I felt that it was me who wrote it! That's EXACTLY what happened to me - although I started with 3.5 and ended the second half of my 2 year campaign with C&C. I feel your pain! Aint is just a kick in the @#$ to put so much effort and then in the end feel like you've been bamboozled! So much energy into creating/adjusting modules to wrap around individual PCs, then they come and go! ARGHHHHH!

Inkpot wrote:
I need a looooong break from CKing (I've been running this campaign for roughly six months). I had hoped that someone would get excited enough about C&C to run their own campaign that I could play in, but no such luck.

I've felt that way myself, but I got right back ontop of things and put together a new group - one that will hopefully stick around, and repeating the entire campaign, with major changes. Now I fully intend on doing this right. Although, at times, like yesterday, I have no energy to put any effort into prep. So tonight will be a sort of 'WINGING IT' session on my part. I fear I may in fact need a break, but I also fear losing the group I've got is I take said break. {sigh}

Inkpot wrote:
At any rate, at the end of it all, my players only had two real criticisms:

1. Character advancement is too slow (this is probably more my fault than a deficiency in the system itself).

2. There needs to be more *real* benefits for character classes as they level. Players complained that there was little in the rules to make them *want* to level their character. A level 3 X-class is not much different than a level 4 X-class beyond a few more hit points.

1. If the players are cool with slow progress and into the game for the longhaul, then they won't mind slow progress. I've been playing the same character in a D&D 2nd ed game for over 4 years now and only got to level 9 Rogue/Level 2 Illusionist last week! We play on average 2 times a month for 4-6 hours per session. I love it! I've got history with the character and it's developed into an almost alter ego in real life (LOL!!!). People refer to me as JYNX when I go into the store!

My point is, slow prgress can be looked at as a great thing if the players are truly interested in a long term game. Otherwise, 3.5 is more their taste.

2. Benefits? Make them up as the player wants more 'stuff' for their character. Make it interesting for them.

Anyhow, good luck and hope you get back into it soon!

[RPGmonk]

Good CKs never die....the players just fade away........

Sounds like you had fun. Take a break, and enjoy the afterglow!

peace

[Dristram]

Inkpot wrote:
1. Character advancement is too slow (this is probably more my fault than a deficiency in the system itself).

Out of curiosity, what level were they at the end?

Quote:
2. There needs to be more *real* benefits for character classes as they level. Players complained that there was little in the rules to make them *want* to level their character. A level 3 X-class is not much different than a level 4 X-class beyond a few more hit points.

I see that as the charm of C&C and old AD&D as well. Once there is not much mechanical benefit to leveling, players should be able to sit back, relax, and just enjoy the ride in the form of adventuring, story building, and character development. C&C games need to be run differently than what 3e games are like. In 3e, there is always a carrot dangling in front of the players in terms of Feats and multitudes of class abilities. So the games will often devolve into doing only that which gives x.p. to gain that carrot. That's video game style gaming. I have to explain to players of 3e that C&C is a D&D style game, but should be looked at as a different game than D&D so don't have the same expectations. Once the players realize that, and get it, they can usually relax their hunger a bit for x.p. and leveling. But the storyline of the campaign needs to be strong with memorable NPCs. I also like to show an evolution in the PC's heroic reputations. As they achieve their goals in the adventures, and gain levels, their reputations grow and are recognized more and more by the NPCs they meet and they feel like they are achieving something very personal to their characters. CKing C&C is much harder to do well than DMing 3e D&D. DMing 3e D&D is so easy a caveman can do it.
Somthing I've thought about doing was keeping track of x.p. myself without the players knowing, and then just surprise them when they level. It might help getting the focus off of staring at the x.p. amount on the character sheet. 8)

Quote:
So that's about it. Good game, good campaign, fun times. What more could a guy ask for? =)

Maybe players telling you, "That was fun!" I ask my players after each session how it was and get feedback. I want the game to be as much for them as it is for me, without having to feed 3e carrots.

BTW, I don't mean this in any offense or anything, but 6 months to me is a short campaign. My last one was 2 years and there are a few DMs around running year long campaigns. My current C&C game is going on 4 months and is no where near complete. My next C&C campaign will be running the A series and I expect it to run for well over a year. I wonder if you've gotten used to 3e style gaming where campaigns are over in 4-8 months...if you're lucky. I really hate how 3e changed tabletop gaming.

But by all means, don't take a break from C&C. Gather any who will play and just run some of the many fun C&C adventures there are out there. Tell your players, "Don't worry about leveling. Lets just game and have fun."

[anglefish]

I feel your pain on vanishing players. It's gotten to the point that I focus the game on something that's attached to the PCs, but maintains consistent, such as a ship, a kingdom or an organization.

Better yet, such things are subject to forces beyond the player's whims, such as stormy seas (for ships), bandit raids (for a caravan) or politics.

It also helps when I make it manditory that the player construct some solid reason he's invested in the campaign's Big Object.

I'm also tinkering with excuses to give mid-level benfits beyond what's on the EPP chart, like Advanced Racial Abilities.

Dristram wrote:
I wonder if you've gotten used to 3e style gaming where campaigns are over in 4-8 months...if you're lucky. I really hate how 3e changed tabletop gaming.

For the record it's not a "3.x thing" I played in a AD&D game that skyrocket from 1st level to 18th in under a year and a half. The GM was giving out XP in the thousands to pull that off. I was also a Phanton Cleric, somthing that just became "offical" in 3.x this month with Dragon magazine. So "funky races" aren't that new either.

I've also seen just as much hack n' slash in old school as I do in 3.5. It just seems that the kids are getting younger. Wait, that's just me getting older.
In fact, WotC did a marketing survey BEFORE they started on 3.0 and found out that the average campaign (with the same players) didn't last longer than a year.

[Inkpot]

Yeah, I was going to say....6 months seemed like a pretty damn long campaign if you ask me. Those campaigns that lasted a year or more? Was that in a single story arc or just with the same group?

Ink
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C&C: Blissfully devoid of gestalt neko-hin rogue/fighter/mages!!

[gideon_thorne]

Inkpot wrote:
Yeah, I was going to say....6 months seemed like a pretty damn long campaign if you ask me. Those campaigns that lasted a year or more? Was that in a single story arc or just with the same group?

Ink

I was involved in a game with the same group and characters that lasted about 6 years.

6 months, yer just getting your feet wet. *tongue in cheek* ^_~`
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[miller6]

Inkpot wrote:
Players complained that there was little in the rules to make them *want* to level their character.

Ink

Glad to hear your players understood that the game isn't about leveling to gain power. In my campaign, players intentionally don't level their characters just to stay in the mod level range I prefer to run.

IMHO The world can't have enough NON-power hungry gamers. As a CK, I'd have to say each one is worth a dozen times his weight in munchkins.

Brian Miller
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"The adventure continues"

[Inkpot]

gideon_thorne wrote:
I was involved in a game with the same group and characters that lasted about 6 years.

6 months, yer just getting your feet wet. *tongue in cheek* ^_~`

Hey, it's not MY fault you don't know how to tie up a story! lol....
Ink
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C&C: Blissfully devoid of gestalt neko-hin rogue/fighter/mages!!

[gideon_thorne]

Inkpot wrote:
Hey, it's not MY fault you don't know how to tie up a story! lol....
Ink

*smiles* It did get tied up, it just had a lot of volumes in the series.
The characters went from 1-15th level
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[Dristram]

anglefish wrote:
For the record it's not a "3.x thing" I played in a AD&D game that skyrocket from 1st level to 18th in under a year and a half.

That's actually not that bad. I played in a 3e game where we were 10th level by the 4th month. I quit playing but the party made over 20th level by month 8. The Dungeon story-arc games are designed to take characters from level 1 to 20+ in one year.

Quote:
The GM was giving out XP in the thousands to pull that off. I was also a Phanton Cleric, somthing that just became "offical" in 3.x this month with Dragon magazine. So "funky races" aren't that new either.

You'll have to understand that my "AD&D" is 1st edition. I played 2nd edition for about 3 years before 3e came out and my version of 2nd ed. was more like 1st. I've heard horror stories about some 2nd ed. AD&D games where things just got way out of hand. Mainly, from what I understand, because of all the "splat books". I and my group rarely if ever used them.

Quote:
I've also seen just as much hack n' slash in old school as I do in 3.5. It just seems that the kids are getting younger. Wait, that's just me getting older.

Hack and slash? Oh yeah baby! Plenty of it. I gots nothing against hack and slashing. It's just when that's all there is where I get turned off. But you gots to have a fair share of hacking and slashing.

Quote:
In fact, WotC did a marketing survey BEFORE they started on 3.0 and found out that the average campaign (with the same players) didn't last longer than a year.

I heard that. It's the reason where the key lays. TPK's, starting college, starting a new job, having kids, etc. are the reasons IMO. Not for lack of wanting. I've found that in 3e the focus is more on character optimization through mechanics rather than character development through the story, roleplaying, and adventuring. Because of the mass amount of character options, players seem to loose interest in their characters more quickly in favor of trying out some new concept they have in their head. As a result, there are a lot more disruptions in campaigns, causing them to not last long.

[Dristram]

Inkpot wrote:
Yeah, I was going to say....6 months seemed like a pretty damn long campaign if you ask me. Those campaigns that lasted a year or more? Was that in a single story arc or just with the same group?

My latest was the World's Largest Dungeon. It ended for two reasons. One, I was getting tired of the uberness of the characters at only 12th level, and two, it was a TPK caused by player pride. Otherwise, that game would still be going. I keep thinking it would be if it was an AD&D game, or better yet, C&C.
Other games lasted simply going from module to module with the same group with no particular story arc to connect them.

You know, I had a thought. About your players not liking the lack of mechanic boosts by leveling, how about them finding magic items and such that give them the boosts they want? As they level, they find better and better magic items. That way also, if things get out of hand with the power level from the magic items, "crap happens" and magic items go away. With Feats and such, the DM can't take them away if they unbalance the campaign. That was a rude awakening for me in my first 3e game when I gave out my normal amount of magic items from playing AD&D and they combined with all the superhero powers gained from Feats.

[Maliki]

Sorry to hear it came to an end, but its good that it did have an end and did not just die. Players moving in and out is always a problem, it makes it hard to keep a story arc going when the characters keep moving in and out.

Glad to hear you are not giving up on the Crusade, sometimes it is good to take a break, look at what went right and wrong in the campaign and learn from it.

My own game has been on break for several months now, one player work schedule changed and another just became a dad. Another friend came along and started running a 2E game, but I'm hoping to get back into the CK chair soon.
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