Fiffergrund wrote:
What astounds me is the fact that Steve can start a thread like this and never come back to deal with what he began.
Sort of the very definition of a Troll, I guess.
That's the way of it. Like some old, fat fart sitting on the park bench yelling out various and sundry nonsensical comments at the birds, bums and bikers as they stroll by. That's the definition of a troll methinks.
My biggest bother with global warming is not the warming by and large. Its the tone that certain people are taking (interestingly noone on these forums has). WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO!!!!!!
Well, if that's the case I'm going to party likes its 1999!
We hear these things time and time again. Y2K was going to end civilaztion. We're overdue for a huge meteor. We have super volcanoes in Wyoming set to blow off any second. The canary islands are going to collapse into the sea and send a tsunami to the moon. Some gama rays are going to blast us into space. We had nuclear holocausts at least three times. The Bird Flu, the poop flu, the flu flu. And all of this since 1998.
The Pope actually had to pass a Papal Bull back in the 999 time period as everyone was going nuts about the end of the world at 1000. The bull said sometihng to the affect that nothing was going to happen. And nothing happened (hmmm, maybe we need to give the Pope more due! )
Global warming: If its a natural event (as the historical record shows, there have been many periods of warming and cooling, some more extreme than others so this could be natural), there is nothing we can do about it. If its going to be as bad as they say, we will adjust. The government is allocating billions to this debate...of course, luckly with our government most of those billions are being used to buy housing and cars for our wonderful leaders.
If global warming is man made then there is probably nothing we can do to stop it, short of declaring war on India and China. Even if the industrialized west stopped emissions today the newly industrializing east wouldn't and the problem would continue to grow. That's why Bush, Clinton, Bush and the Senate in a 99-0 vote turned down signing the Kyote Accords. The accords have no impact on China and India, mostly geared toward the US and Canada.
And that's my other problem with the Global Warming debate. Its all about the United States. We are the bad guys. We've done all the harm. It goes back to that same arguement. When i was young and filled with a little more compassion I looked into Amnesty International. But then found out that they ranked US prisons as some of the worst in the world. Really? REALLY? This was during the Cold War and places like Vietnam, Angola, South Africa, Syria, Iran, Algeria, Nicauraga had prisons filled with the dead and dying. And the US was listed worse? Seemed strange.
And it is. The problem is one of accountability. Its easy to piont at Canada, Japan, the US and England as being the problems because you can force them to change. You can't have any impact on Cuba. AI can dance around Cuban embassies in Paris all they want. They can shout, wave signs and get petitions. It has never and never will have an affect. You can, if you go there, get killed of course. So the interst groups focus their energy on those that they can change, those that are accountable. Dictatorships are not accountable to anyone because the UN is a piece of crap.... well that's changed a little lately.
So that brings us back to the Global Warming debate. When asked about China Gore's response was/is "we need to take the moral leadership in this issue and the Chinese will follow suit." What? Really? Why would they? That's not how dictatorships normally work.
I am tired of the US being to blame for everything and I"m a little giddy about the constant 'end of the world scenarios'. The moment someone convinces me its really the end of the world. Dude. I. am. done. I'm going to have a ball.
If Gore and crew would take a little bit more realistic approach to the debate they would gain more ground. You can't convince people to change by making their lives more inconvenient and hard. You have to make their lives better. So, Gore and crew could put several hundreds of millions into creating companies that can: make safe energy, sell it cheap, and charge little for it. That would win the day in one fell swoop. You have to make things better for people to change their ways. We didn't switch from Beta to VHS to DVD because DVDs were environmentally sound. We did it because it made our lives better. We'll switch to green fuel when my truck gains horse power, pulling power, milage and doesn't sacrifice space for my family. If I wanted a Yugo I would have bought one.
Also, if Gore and crew would go to China and the UN and start hitting them up as much as he is the US and Canada then it would make me take the debate a little more seriously. But as it is its just another way of attacking half the problem and therefore the offered solutions aren't going to work. Half ass anything and you end up with the CCPHB 1st printing! Its a good concept, but fails in the application.
So what of Global Warming? Sure the globe probably is warming. Whose fault is it? Sure its probably everyone/thing. Nothing happens in a vacuum. My guess is that the globe has been in a natural warming cycle for decades and human happiness has excellerated it a little. Is it going to end civilization? No. Not by a long shot. We may have to build a few more de-salinating plants and there may be a few more New Yorkers in the ozarks, but you know what? That's okay too, we'll all have a little more ocean to go fishing in.
And thanks all for keeping this civil. Pretty cool of you.
Steve
ps: the coolest of all natural disasters is the flipping of the globe. Apparently some postulate that the globe has in its past suddenly rolled over, north being south and south being north. Now imagine what kind of ride that would be!!!!
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