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If all the blowhards out there would SHUT THE *#^# up for 10 minutes our CO2 emmissions would drop by 18 gazillion percent!

Steve
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*ding* That is correct. Circle gets the square.

..........................................Omote

FPQ
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*snorts* This will all end in tears.
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Peter Bradley

10 minutes?! I can do that! Hey, wait a minute there buddy!

Thats not a solution, that is a temporary delay. You know when they open their mouths back up they will do their best to make up for lost time.

Omote wrote:
*ding* That is correct. Circle gets the square.

..........................................Omote

FPQ

Or in Steve's case, the square gets a circle?

I will gladly help thin out their numbers. Just answer this: .45, 7.62, or 12 guage?

Breakdaddy wrote:
I will gladly help thin out their numbers. Just answer this: .45, 7.62, or 12 guage?

I'd go nuclear to solve this one. Send up a splatform...

"Damn, I rolled a one on the launch."

Brian Miller
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"The adventure continues"

Considering that the '08 election is coming up, global warming is about to go through the roof...
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Duct tape and a sledgehammer.

You know...I was wondering when the environmentalists would start asking humans to quit breathing in order to lower carbon dioxide emissions.

remember, there is no such thing as global warming. the head of the geophysics at MIT has stated that the scientific data actually supports global cooling.

so who do you believe, a scientist at a well respected center for higher learning or a hick from tennessee who claims he invented the internet. put that in your "Lockbox."

I love you guys!

Troll Lord wrote:
If all the blowhards out there would SHUT THE *#^# up for 10 minutes our CO2 emmissions would drop by 18 gazillion percent!

Steve

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"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

Dristram wrote:
You know...I was wondering when the environmentalists would start asking humans to quit breathing in order to lower carbon dioxide emissions.

*chuckles* Sometimes I truly wonder if there is a downside here?
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Peter Bradley

mordrene wrote:
remember, there is no such thing as global warming. the head of the geophysics at MIT has stated that the scientific data actually supports global cooling.

so who do you believe, a scientist at a well respected center for higher learning or a hick from tennessee who claims he invented the internet. put that in your "Lockbox."

After watching various things on Nova and such shows there's more evidence that "global Warming" is actually a by-product of the magnectic pole shift. Oddly in the diagram that was given of the way the field works the two main areas that the field enters the atmosphere is....Right where the Ozone holes are. Coinsider as well that since the Ice Age there have been no stable weather patterns* for any major lengths and that we have only had good metorological data and research for less than a century I want to know how we supposedly can come to the conclusion of Global Warming when we don't have accurate records for say, the last 10,000 or so years...

Makes it all hard to buy in my book.

*according to the experts
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Julian Grimm toooo true!

Steve, which blow hards are we talking about. That will narrow down the required weapon for the job. My prefered is a A-10 or AC-130, but that just comes with my job. The duct tape & hammer can be fun too, but a bit messy!
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Julian Grimm wrote:
After watching various things on Nova and such shows there's more evidence that "global Warming" is actually a by-product of the magnectic pole shift. Oddly in the diagram that was given of the way the field works the two main areas that the field enters the atmosphere is....Right where the Ozone holes are. Coinsider as well that since the Ice Age there have been no stable weather patterns* for any major lengths and that we have only had good metorological data and research for less than a century I want to know how we supposedly can come to the conclusion of Global Warming when we don't have accurate records for say, the last 10,000 or so years...

Makes it all hard to buy in my book.

*according to the experts

I've been saying this for years, but no one ever listens to me.

R-
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The Book of the Mind

The whole Global Warming thing always confused me because just in high school (in Florida) I had learned the following:

1. There have been many ice ages and thus many periods of the Earth cooling and warming.

2. Most of Florida was created by the rising and falling of the ocean water levels due to many periods of global cooling and warming.

3. Plant life needs carbon dioxide to live.

4. Most of the Earth's oxygen comes from the ocean, not jungles.

5. The Earth is an ever changing planet.

So, when I hear the Earth is warming and the glaciers are melting, I say, "Duh, it's been happening since the latest ice age. And this is a surprise? At some point, it will begin cooling again. Don't freak out okay?"

Yep, we'll just stick our fingers in our ears, hum real loud and all the nasty facts will go away. Sheesh.

Ah, why the hell am I even trying? Well, I always was a quixotic sort. Dristram, you're right that the Earth has undergone many climatic shifts. Few of those had over six billion human beings trying not to starve to death living on it at the time. Our civilisation is very complex, interdependent and remarkably fragile. The Earth has nothing to worry about. We do.
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I've been slapped on the hand for addressing this "controversial" topic on these boards not too long ago but, since other users insist on doing so, I now feel free to join in the discussion...

Quote:
After watching various things on Nova and such shows there's more evidence that "global Warming" is actually a by-product of the magnectic pole shift. Oddly in the diagram that was given of the way the field works the two main areas that the field enters the atmosphere is....Right where the Ozone holes are.

How does that explain global warming?

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Coinsider as well that since the Ice Age there have been no stable weather patterns* for any major lengths and that we have only had good metorological data and research for less than a century I want to know how we supposedly can come to the conclusion of Global Warming when we don't have accurate records for say, the last 10,000 or so years...

There are ways to estimate past climate variations, tree rings measurements for example. Models are built with data coming from a variety of sources. The basics have been wikied.

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*according to the experts

Which experts?

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the head of the geophysics at MIT has stated that the scientific data actually supports global cooling.

Could you link me to that statement please?

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At some point, it will begin cooling again. Don't freak out okay?"

True but it may not happen for a long time (many decades or a few centuries?). In the meanwhile, temperatures are on the rise according to the majority of the scientific community.

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Dristram, you're right that the Earth has undergone many climatic shifts. Few of those had over six billion human beings trying not to starve to death living on it at the time. Our civilisation is very complex, interdependent and remarkably fragile. The Earth has nothing to worry about. We do.

Exactly...
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Catweazle wrote:
Yep, we'll just stick our fingers in our ears, hum real loud and all the nasty facts will go away. Sheesh.

Ah, why the hell am I even trying? Well, I always was a quixotic sort. Dristram, you're right that the Earth has undergone many climatic shifts. Few of those had over six billion human beings trying not to starve to death living on it at the time. Our civilisation is very complex, interdependent and remarkably fragile. The Earth has nothing to worry about. We do.

*faint smile* Hear hear to everything you say, and are trying hard not to say. ^_~`
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Peter Bradley

Julian Grimm wrote:
After watching various things on Nova and such shows there's more evidence that "global Warming" is actually a by-product of the magnectic pole shift. Oddly in the diagram that was given of the way the field works the two main areas that the field enters the atmosphere is....Right where the Ozone holes are. Coinsider as well that since the Ice Age there have been no stable weather patterns* for any major lengths and that we have only had good metorological data and research for less than a century I want to know how we supposedly can come to the conclusion of Global Warming when we don't have accurate records for say, the last 10,000 or so years...

Makes it all hard to buy in my book.

*according to the experts

agreed. if the age of the earth was 24 hours then mankind would have been around for what.. a few minutes. after that, how long has there been emperical data for weather patterns. with that little of information how can anyone predict what the earths climate is about to do? I recently was in a discussion with mathmaticians who stated that one cannot predict weather past 72 hours of you will bias your conclusions.

Metathiax wrote:
I've been slapped on the hand for addressing this "controversial" topic on these boards not too long ago but, since other users insist on doing so, I now feel free to join in the discussion...


How does that explain global warming?

Easy, the so called holes are nothing more than a by-product of the shift as is the changes in weather. Of course to hear the GC die hards tell it nothing like a major shift in magnetic poles would ever have any effect on the climate...
Look, I've seen enough junk science, news and other scare tactics in my life that have prooved to be nothing more than so much hot air. I'm not going to get all worked up over this just like I didn't over bird flu, anthrax and whatever else the media and 'scientific' chicken littles want to tell us.

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There are ways to estimate past climate variations, tree rings measurements for example. Models are built with data coming from a variety of sources. The basics have been wikied.

Estimate is the key word. I want accurate records of thos periods so unless neandrathol scientists kept them we still have nothing.

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Which experts?

Sadly these are the same unbiased experts with no political and career agenda that we are subjected to time and time again. Read "expert' as: Overpaid blowhard working for X college with major funds being controlled by Y political entity and all results will be tied to the outlook of X&Y entities. As in the answer was decided upon before the "research" was undertaken.

In a nutshell, I don't trust most thinktanks, politicians or colleges. I base my opinion on my experiences and the evidence of them. Hence, Missouri's weather is still just as screwed up as it always was. It's too hot in summer, too cold in winter and there is not really a spring or fall, as well randon goofy stuff like 30 degree summer nights and 70 degree winter days happen. It's been like that since my family has been here and that has been close to 200 years or more. So I see no change at all.
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Hehe, you guys are scaring me. You're actually thinking for yourselves and coming to your own conclusions, instead of parroting what's been said in the media.
I've heard a report that schools are showing Al Gore's movie in highschool science classes and are presenting them as fact without providing any material for the opposing view. Anyone else hear about this? Pretty sneaky way of "re-educating" the public IMO.

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I recently was in a discussion with mathmaticians who stated that one cannot predict weather past 72 hours of you will bias your conclusions.

I guess all those weather forecasts are just BS then...

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Easy, the so called holes are nothing more than a by-product of the shift as is the changes in weather. Of course to hear the GC die hards tell it nothing like a major shift in magnetic poles would ever have any effect on the climate...

Moving ozone layer holes won't change the average planet temperature. Locally (in the holes) maybe but not globally. Also, the magnetic north pole is currently moving towards north. Since the Earth receives less of the sun's energy farther from the equator, this phenomena should account for a global cooling of the Earth if anything. This is contradictory with all observations...

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Look, I've seen enough junk science, news and other scare tactics in my life

Why would acknowledging facts be "scare tactics"?

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that have prooved to be nothing more than so much hot air

Hot air...funny...

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I'm not going to get all worked up over this just like I didn't over bird flu, anthrax and whatever else the media and 'scientific' chicken littles want to tell us.

I am far more concerned with some governments (including mine) trying to minimize the importance of this issue through propaganda to suit corporate/private oil interests than with the media trying to scare the public. I wonder why they maximize terrorist threats while minimizing global warming threats? Guess where is the money to be made...

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I want accurate records of thos periods so unless neandrathol scientists kept them we still have nothing.

How convenient...

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I base my opinion on my experiences and the evidence of them.

Then you should visit what's left of the great north sometimes. Your trip may end up being a real eye opener. Oil tankers are already crossing what was once unnavigable ice covered waters, much to the pleasure of the oil industry...
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I've heard a report that schools are showing Al Gore's movie in highschool science classes and are presenting them as fact without providing any material for the opposing view.

That's the point. All existant opposing views on this topic are marginal at best. If schools were to equally teach all the theories on all scientific topics as if they were all valid, science would be a total mess. Skepticism is necessary to keep science healthy as a whole but science isn't religion, it is based on current known facts. The current known fact (supported by the overwhelming majority of the scientific community) is that the Earth is currently warming up (there is a relevant debate as to why it is warming up though). Teaching school kids that a minority of scientists think it is cooling down (often biased/influenced/funded by personal/financial/private interests; the oil industry in this case) as if it was as valid a theory would make no sense at all. Heck, you could probably find some people out there who still think the Earth is flat... Science works this way : make an observation, suggest a theory that would explain the observation, test that theory, confirm or infirm the theory based on the experimental results. A confirmed theory remains valid until a better one is found (meaning that it allows more accurate predictions on the studied phenomenon) while an infirmed one is put aside for another proposition. Global warming has yet to be convincingly infirmed...
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I often wonder what some would be saying if we were going through a "little ice age" as happened between the 13th and 19th Centuries.

Here's a little excerpt from Wikipedia.

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The Little Ice Age brought bitterly cold winters to many parts of the world, but is most thoroughly documented in Europe and North America. In the mid-17th century, glaciers in the Swiss Alps advanced, gradually engulfing farms and crushing entire villages. The River Thames and the canals and rivers of the Netherlands often froze over during the winter,...

Holy crap! What ever did they do when that happened??

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...and people skated and even held frost fairs on the ice.

The thing is for me, if a global warming is happening, like it may well indeed be, why are some so quick to think we're the cause instead of it just simply being a natural course of the planet and focus on what we can do to prepare for it instead of so much energy spent on blaming.

If I'm not mistaken, didn't the hot topic of the 60's-70's be global cooling? Then in the 90's it changed to global warming? Which is it?

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Holy crap! What ever did they do when that happened??

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...and people skated and even held frost fairs on the ice.

You forgot to quote this part though...

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The severe winters affected human life in ways large and small. The population of Iceland fell by half, but this was perhaps also due to fluorosis caused by the eruption of the volcano Laki in 1783 [4]. The Viking colonies in Greenland, however, clearly died out (in the 1400s) because they could no longer grow enough food there. In North America, American Indians formed leagues in response to food shortages [5].

"In many years, snowfall was much heavier than recorded before or since, and the snow lay on the ground for many months longer than it does today [6]." Many springs and summers were outstandingly cold and wet, although there was great variability between years and groups of years. Crop practices throughout Europe had to be altered to adapt to the shortened, less reliable growing season, and there were many years of death and famine (such as the Great Famine of 1315-1317, although this may have been before the LIA proper). Viticulture entirely disappeared from some northern regions. Violent storms caused massive flooding and loss of life. Some of these resulted in permanent losses of large tracts of land from the Danish, German, and Dutch coasts [7].

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The thing is for me, if a global warming is happening, like it may well indeed be, why are some so quick to think we're the cause instead of it just simply being a natural course of the planet and focus on what we can do to prepare for it instead of so much energy spent on blaming.

Good point. If this is the case, we should then be more careful not to contribute to the phenomenon even more than this proposed natural course will...

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If I'm not mistaken, didn't the hot topic of the 60's-70's be global cooling? Then in the 90's it changed to global warming? Which is it?

This is a good example of an infirmed theory. Scientists aren't always right but they are usually lucid enough to (eventually) admit their mistakes. Unfortunately, this makes it look as if science is weaker than it really is in the eye of the public when compared to ideologies and religions which all claim to have The Truth... It's easy to jump on infirmed scientific theories to discredit science but we would be hard pressed to name a single theory which has been confirmed by ideologies or religions and yet we do not question beliefs as much as facts...
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Dristram wrote:
The thing is for me, if a global warming is happening, like it may well indeed be, why are some so quick to think we're the cause instead of it just simply being a natural course of the planet and focus on what we can do to prepare for it instead of so much energy spent on blaming.

Arrogance/it's-all-about-us-complex and politics, most likely.

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If I'm not mistaken, didn't the hot topic of the 60's-70's be global cooling? Then in the 90's it changed to global warming? Which is it?

I remember that, too. When I was in school in the 70s we had classroom films on the "new ice age" that scientists were worrying about.
Thought this was interesting:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 363818.ece