Troll Lord Games

Here is an excerpt from a post on their boards that expalins the gist of why they are quiting:

"...The current state of Necro sales is due to several things:

1. Kenzer. Just not doing the job. Period. I have been very disappointed with their sales and their ability to move books. And the scary part is that our books are some of their best sellers. Maybe that was me and Bill mis-evaluating what Kenzer would be able to do for us. But there was no real way to know that.

2. WotC inserting itself into the space that has been traditionally occupied by d20 publishers, and doing so with some excellent products.

3. WW's disappearance from the market and thus no effort on their part to move d20 products.

Here is the reality: without WW, we wouldnt have gotten where we got. Bill and I couldnt have done the distribution and the sales and stuff all by ourselves. It wouldnt have been possible. Not only was it our only viable option, but it was by far our BEST option. Our pair up with WW was the envy of the d20 "industry." People were freaking out trying to get what we had. Now it has come to an end. And, given that Bill and I are part time, most likely Necro has come to an end too. And I am OK with that. I dont have any desire to just tread water in a sea of medicre barely relevant sales. We are finishing out our products that we have committed to do and will most likely bow out. CoB will be our last biggie. Tegel will be there too if we can work out its release. If not, then it wont. And, like I said, I am OK with that. We have had a great run based on an amazing business model and branding strategy that was the envy of the industry.

Nothing lasts forever.

Clark"

THAT SUCKS! Necromancer was by far my favorite d20 company, my last two rpg purchases (Doom of Listonshire and Bards Gate) where both from Necromancer.
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Talk about sudden and unexpected news...
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Interesting. I didn't know they were having any troubles.
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What happens with Judges Guild? Will they suffer from Necro's demise as well?
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Goodman Games is releasing three updated Judges Guild adventures, maybe more after that.

Tegal Manor was/is the the last JG product Necromancer was ever going to do anyways.

I hope they talk to Joe Goodman and see if they can work out a deal for him to publish it for them. OTherwise I am afraid we'll never see Melans Tegal Manor.

Julian Grimm wrote:
What happens with Judges Guild? Will they suffer from Necro's demise as well?

Seems as if Tegel will be their last JG thing.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

Wow, sad times. Necro was by far my fav d20 publisher as well. But to be honest, this was kinda in the cards. I knew Kenzer would suck at distributing their products, but at least it was some thing. With WW gone, the sweet deal was gone too.

HOWEVER, the fact that Necro still plans to release CITY OF BRASS is frackin' wonderful news!!!!!!!! If Necro never publishes another product, and CoB and even Tegal get out, Necro will cement itself as one of the better publishers of all time IMHO.

Long live Orcus, er, the king!

Best wishes to Bill, Clark and all the other ungodly horrors that reside there.

................................................Omote

FPQ
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Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

This would be a good time for TLG to step up and entice the Necro fans over to LA or C&C.
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Julian Grimm wrote:
This would be a good time for TLG to step up and entice the Necro fans over to LA or C&C.

There are several of us C&Cers over on their boards, the rest of them still love 3E or are happy with True20.

Michael P. Who co-wrote the new Highlands/C&C book with Bowbe is a bi-gamer. Meaning he likes C&C but his group doesn't like it enough to play it. They did try it for awhile, though.

I heard about this and it suckles fairly hard. I have a lot of respect for Necromancer and their releases are of consistently high quality. Good luck to Clark, Bill, Patrick, and all the rest of those cats in the future. I think Casey is doing great things on the TLG/C&C front with the HH stuff, so that's a good thing to see.

Breakdaddy wrote:
I heard about this and it suckles fairly hard. I have a lot of respect for Necromancer and their releases are of consistently high quality. Good luck to Clark, Bill, Patrick, and all the rest of those cats in the future. I think Casey is doing great things on the TLG/C&C front with the HH stuff, so that's a good thing to see.

And these folks know they have an open door to produce C&C material just as Case does. Bill's already done a bit. It seems sensable enough that Bill, Clark, Patrick and the rest can contribute, part time or otherwise, to C&C material. Certainly a 24 page module isnt as intensive as trying to put together such monolithic detail as City State et al.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

Despite not having any Necro stuff, it is a shame to see such talented writers have to close shop. However, as others above me have said, it would be nice to see some C&C material come out of it.

R-
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The Book of the Mind

gideon_thorne wrote:
Certainly a 24 page module isnt as intensive as trying to put together such monolithic detail as City State et al.

And especially simply taking some of their popular d20 work and converting it to C&C. Simple, done, make some money.

Yeah, and since James M. is doing JG for C&C anyway, how cool would it be to get Melan's Tegel Manor out for C&C!
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That's sad to read. NG is (was?) certainly one of the better companies on the market and I really do hope that Clark and Bill somehow remain active in the gaming industry. After all, they brought us The Tomb of Abysthor, one of the best dungeoncrawl adventures ever published!

This is sad news. Necromancer Games and Troll Lord Games have always been my favorite two publishers. I'll admit, I didn't pick up the Kenzer adventures, but I saved up for the Rappan Athuk box set and Bard's Gate. I'm still saving for City of Brass, because I've been waiting for that for a looong time.

I'm anxious to see Bill's C&C adventures in the upcoming issue of the Crusader and I hope when Clark, Bill and the rest of the Necro writers need a creative outliet, they'll consider writing something for C&C. Maybe Sword of Air and Clark's Adventure Path idea?

Next break, I'll have to head over to the Necro boards and see how things are going.

sieg wrote:
Yeah, and since James M. is doing JG for C&C anyway, how cool would it be to get Melan's Tegel Manor out for C&C!

*smiles* I leave it for you gentlemen to go lead the charge and persuade Necro to that very idea. ^_~`
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

How cool would it be to see Crucilbe of Freya for C&C? Not that that would be a good buisness decision, but a damn good mod none-the-less.

.......................................Omote

FPQ
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Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Sad to see!
Guess I'm not overly surprised though. Their website updates had been fewer and fewer as time went by, usually not a good sign. I have purchased a bunch of their stuff over the years - very nice stuff! I wish Bill, Clark, and the rest of the Hee-Haw the best in their future endeavors!!

There is an interesting dichotomy going on. Clark is talking all about shutting doors, but Bill is all about "don't throw dirt on my coffin yet."

So I am starting to suspect that there ia a "parting of ways" in the works for the dynamic Necromancer duo. Which kind of makes sense, because Bill and Clark haven't sounded, to me, like thay have been on the same page for a couple of years now.

It has also appeared to me like Bill has been pretty much running Necromancer by himself for a couple of years as well.

All just my opinion of course. Makes for an interesting soap opera anyways.

Besides, all they say they need to find is a publisher with which whom they can work with and does a better job of getting product out than Kenzer does.

I don't see how that is a difficult problem to overcome, but Clark is saying that it is.

So we'll see how things go. As long as it ends with Necromancer staying in business I am pretty sure I'll be happy.

I noticed that there seemed to be a difference of opinion as to what's going to happen. It may very well be that you are right about a split.

In any case, news of Necro being in trouble hits like a punch in the gut.

Hearing about the cool stuff Necro was doing was really responsible for getting me back into gaming, after a 2 - 3 year lapse.

Treebore wrote:
There is an interesting dichotomy going on. Clark is talking all about shutting doors, but Bill is all about "don't throw dirt on my coffin yet."........So we'll see how things go. As long as it ends with Necromancer staying in business I am pretty sure I'll be happy.

[UPDATE

OK, this is all my fault.

See, this is why companies dont usually share their thoughts and feelings before things are finally decided. Because stuff like this happens.

We are not dead. And it is my fault for sharing my thoughts on these boards. I should have just kept my mouth shut until Bill and I finally decided what we were doing.

There are still several options. Good ones, frankly. And we are exploring them.

I was just musing that the likely course is us winding down. And I was sharing that with all of you like I would with friends over a beer. The problem is, though these boards may feel to me like a talk with friends over a beer, they are public boards. And when I say the stuff I say, people take it as official pronoucnements. And I dont blame you.

The bottom line is this: if we HAD to stop, I am OK with that. I am proud of our accomplishments. And I dont want to just tread water. Necro is about more than that. And if that is the way things go, then that is how they go. And that is OK.

BUT this decision isnt final. Sorry if I have sounded gloomy. I have simply done a rational review of the circumstances.

I also agree with some of the prior posts that it would be great for Bill and I to do an adventure. We are strongly considering that.

I think all of this got started with the suspension of the Necro adventure path. With our partnership with WW ending, that threw that project into doubt. Until we had new and solid distributorship lined up I couldnt ask people to dedicate the time and expense to work on a project that might not happen. That is a very unique project.

Clark

Ok now TLG needs to be looking at this. Necro with TLG and that it brings in JG into the fold is a damn cool dream in my book. Especially if it strengthens C&C and/or TLg in the process.
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Julian Grimm wrote:
Ok now TLG needs to be looking at this. Necro with TLG and that it brings in JG into the fold is a damn cool dream in my book. Especially if it strengthens C&C and/or TLg in the process.

Hellz yeah!

R-
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The Book of the Mind

Tegal for C&C would be cool as hell. But simply republishing material for another system while it's already been out, probably isn't a good idea. As much as I'd like to see an official Crucible of Freya C&Cized, it just woudn't be all that profitable ~ I would imagine.

................................................Omote

FPQ
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Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Omote wrote:
Tegal for C&C would be cool as hell. But simply republishing material for another system while it's already been out, probably isn't a good idea. As much as I'd like to see an official Crucible of Freya C&Cized, it just woudn't be all that profitable ~ I would imagine.

................................................Omote

FPQ

I would agree. It really wouldn't take a whole lot of tweaking (if any really) to run Crucible for C&C - a very nice adventure!! Better to focus on the new stuff coming down the line!!

Some more encouraging snippets:

" Everyone, I really appreciate the outpouring of support. I'll admit, things were looking bleak. But, perhaps as a result of this thread, a few new developments have arisen. I dont yet know what will happen. But know this: if there is a feasible way for Bill and I to do Necro in a way consistent with our vision, we will. That is a promise.

Quote:

You can't keep a good Necromancer down for long.

That, friend, is the truth!

I cant tell you how much Bill and I appreciate everyone's kind words. Hopefully there will be some really good news in the not-so distant future.

Clark"

Since I have taken heat from a couple of people (Not Bill or Clark) for taking this situation public, I will be more than happy to take full responsibility for this. Like I told Bill and Clark, you can't get help if people don't know you need it.

I am a happy Necromancer fan today.

I've been following this thread on the Necro boards, and it really got me to thinking "what if." Some of the stuff Bill and Clark are typing about make it seem like they are talking to others, perhaps even TLG (wouldn't that be awesome!?)

Regardless, Necro puts out some damn fine products. It would be, or will be a shame to lose them. Let's hope that Necro and TLG can get some type of thing working, together.

..........................................Omote

FPQ
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

It will be interesting to see how things turn out. When I discovered, C&C and Troll Lord Games, it didn't take long for me to take a closer notice at Necromancer games. Aside from the Tome of Horrors, I quickly picked up copies of Necropolis, Trouble At Dubenford, and The Lost City of Barakus as campaign adventures (for conversion and use under C&C). I recently picked up a copy of the Crucible of Freya as well and *LOVE* it.

There will be more acquisitions down the line to be sure!

Moriarty the Red
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