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Savage Worlds?
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:44 pm
by DangerDwarf
I've been kicking around the idea of picking up Savage Worlds for some time now. Anyone familiar with it care to give me their thoughts?
As a fan of the Western genre, I'm really looking at it for Dreadlands Reloaded but am curious about using the system in general as well.
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:36 pm
by Eisenmann
I have it but never run the system. The only game that I've played under the system was a western. It was a lot of fun but the system itself isn't for me. Recently I picked up Coyote Trail from PIG Games and while interesting, I'm not that keen on the system. Instead, I'll use it as inspiration for any western game that I run with Spirit of the Century/FATE 3.0.
Back to Savage Worlds. I found the initiative system with playing cards interesting and very evocative for the western genre. Characters were over the top but that worked for the style of game we were playing. The wild die mechanic is pretty cool as well.
Have you checked out the free Savage Worlds "lite" edition?
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:14 pm
by Breakdaddy
Savage Worlds is pretty awesome, boss. I've run a couple of sessions lately and they have turned out quite well. It's pretty amazing how detailed the system is as compared to how quickly it can be run. I ran an ALIENS game using the system that went quite well (using some stats from savageheroes.com) and then ran a modern military ops game using the same rules with no problems at all. I also have Deadlands Reloaded but have yet to play it. SW is really cool with small groups as well, since I can have a single player rolling for 4 to 6 characters with no problems whatsoever or I can have that player just stick with one character only. You can differentiate the characters by making some of them "Wild Cards" (read: primary characters with extra benefits) and some can be relegated to being "extras" (read: mooks). If by some crazy chance a wildcard dies, you can promote an Extra to Wildcard status with no conversion whatsoever. I have some notes for a mini savage worlds campaign set in the Star Trek universe and my guys are currently trying to get me to run a Star Wars Savage Worlds game, which is where my primary focus currently is. The rules are so streamlined and fast, I wouldnt currently use any other system for modern or sci fi. I really dont see it doing C&C or D&D style Fantasy very well, but could pull of a more cinematic movie-style fantasy well, I would assume. Either way, get this game, it is really as fast, furious, and fun as they claim!
Re: Savage Worlds?
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:08 am
by Emryys
DangerDwarf wrote:
As a fan of the Western genre, I'm really looking at it for Dreadlands Reloaded but am curious about using the system in general as well.
I've been using Go Fer Yer Gun, which uses C&C mechanics, to great effect...
_________________
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:10 am
by FTracer
I have not run it either but I do have some of the books. I use C&C for fantasy and SW for any other genre I'd want to run. Looking forward to the day when I run 50 Fathoms and Necessary Evil. But I gotta finish C&C first.
The free Test Drive has the core rules to get a feel for it.
http://www.peginc.com/Games/Savage%20Wo ... Drive4.pdf
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:39 am
by rabindranath72
I played it and it reminded me too much of 3e. You must select skills, feats etc. There is not an "explosion" like in 3e, but still...I suggest you download the Quickstart rules before buying the book.
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:34 am
by Breakdaddy
rabindranath72 wrote:
I played it and it reminded me too much of 3e. You must select skills, feats etc. There is not an "explosion" like in 3e, but still...I suggest you download the Quickstart rules before buying the book.
It takes like 10 minutes to make a character. The "feats" are a lot more simplified and there is no huge escalation of power to be gained from more Edges(feats). Also the combats take such a miniscule amount of time compared to D20 Modern or 3.xE D&D I fail to see any comparison whatsoever, aside from feat-like "powers" and an assortment of skills. I, too, suggest that he gives it a try before deciding one way or the other, but I just wanted to throw in my .02 on this, as I feel that D&D 3.x has very little to offer other than headaches and that Savage Worlds has little in common with that game.
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:47 am
by rabindranath72
Well, if it was only a matter of using skills and attributes, and the core mechanics...but then there are edges, which are practically the same as the 3.x Feat mechanism, and what is worse, is the fact that Edge "trees" get formed. "Improved Arcane Resistance", which depends on "Arcane Resistance", which in turn depends on Spirit d8+, and Novice.
Then we have classification into Combat Edges, Leadership Edges, Professional Edges, Power Edges, Social Edges etc.
Sorry, but this level of complexity is nowhere near C&C. And it takes far more than 10 minutes to create a character; just to skim the lists of skills, edges and checking prerequisites takes that time. Perhaps if you already know the game and have read all, and took notice of how the Edges interact, then it might take 10 minutes.
Anyway, he will see by himself.
Cheers,
Antonio
Re: Savage Worlds?
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:57 am
by rabindranath72
Emryys wrote:
I've been using Go Fer Yer Gun, which uses C&C mechanics, to great effect...
Seconded! I too bought it, and although I do not like the western genre, it makes for a really fun game. And the C&C mechanics make it sweet to run. My advice, if you want to try a western, go for this instead of savage worlds.
Cheers,
Antonio
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:27 pm
by DangerDwarf
I'm seriously interested in Savage Worlds now, and will go ahead and pick it up after browsing through the link provided.
Go For Your Gun has me intrigued allthough generally I'm not a big fan of a HP based system for games with guns. I'll likely check it out though.
Thanks for the thoughts.
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:39 pm
by Breakdaddy
rabindranath72 wrote:
...Sorry, but this level of complexity is nowhere near C&C. And it takes far more than 10 minutes to create a character; just to skim the lists of skills, edges and checking prerequisites takes that time. Perhaps if you already know the game and have read all, and took notice of how the Edges interact, then it might take 10 minutes...
Cheers,
Antonio
Well, I can personally attest to the fact that it takes *ME* about 10-15 minutes to make a character. I cannot speak for anyone else, except a couple of members of my group who are a lot less familiar with Savage Worlds and took about half an hour to make their characters (sharing the only copy of the rulebook available-mine.). I don't recall stating that it's as simple as C&C, but to be 100% honest, I don't want a game that simple for my Modern Games. I want tactical but quick and smooth for those types of games. C&C does fantasy excellently, but I would add tactical options for anything in the sci fi or modern realm, otherwise it would seem way too simplistic for me. Your mileage DOES vary, which is fine, but SW is a friggin' godsend to me and my group after using D20 Modern and even the excellent but rules heavy Grim Tales D20 variant for our modern gaming needs. I wanted to put a bullet in my own skull after trying to arbitrate those monstrosities on a regular basis.
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:22 pm
by rabindranath72
Breakdaddy wrote:
I wanted to put a bullet in my own skull after trying to arbitrate those monstrosities on a regular basis.
a bit excessive but I understand the feeling!
I did not want to say that it is a bad game at all (and definitely better than any d20 incarnation!), but compared to C&C (yes, I know you did not do any comparison...it was my call, since we here are all C&C regulars) it is not so simple.
Whether SIEGE can be used for anything other than fantasy...I do not know. I imported the system into d20 Call of Cthulhu, and it worked really well. It makes for a fast core of rules to use even for a modern setting.
Cheers,
Antonio
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:16 pm
by Breakdaddy
rabindranath72 wrote:
Breakdaddy wrote:
...Whether SIEGE can be used for anything other than fantasy...I do not know. I imported the system into d20 Call of Cthulhu, and it worked really well. It makes for a fast core of rules to use even for a modern setting...
I would give it a shot, but probably add some "feat-like" abilities to the mix for a modern feel. Actually, I would just manufacture some classes and add the appropriate abilities if I were to take a rules lite approach to modern gaming. Maybe you could whip something up for Gen Con and showcase how well the system can handle modern. That would be pretty fun, I suspect.
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:35 pm
by anglefish
I'm not suggesting other groups are like this, but the only time Savage Worlds took more than hour for the WHOLE group (between 4-8 players) was when someone was actively looking for loopholes to exploit.
For people who wanted to make a reasonably competent character and get gaming, creation was fairly quick ... maybe with a few tweaks, switching out an Edge or two, midgame to get the mechanics and concept to mesh better.
We had this happen twice. One time, one guy kept the book to himself for half an hour and gave it up when he thought he found his loophole (actually he misread an Edge) the other four guys got it together in 30 minutes. This was all by flashlight since the hurricane took out the power.
The other time a friend of mine wanted to run a historic fantasy game, but his players were all detailed orientated and they raked both Savage Worlds AND the game world over the coals looking for advantages and "realism" based on their years of historicals.
I've found that Savage Worlds and C&C attracts some of the same crowd. SW is especially great if you got minis. You can say that 30 Orcs are bearing down on you, but when the players see how many 30 is compared to five of them, the look on their faces is priceless.
With this in mind, character creation in C&C might take forever with my crowd. LOL!
Player: "Dude, I've read your book like three times and I can't find what I'm looking for!"
Me: "What are you looking for?"
Player: "uhhhh. nothing."
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:45 pm
by rabindranath72
Breakdaddy wrote:
Maybe you could whip something up for Gen Con and showcase how well the system can handle modern. That would be pretty fun, I suspect.
It would be a pleasure...but I live in the UK
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:54 pm
by allensh
I cannot play just one game system, no matter how hard I try. Castles and Crusades is a great game for any type of old-school fantasy roleplaying...but Savage Worlds works so well for pulp, and of course for Deadlands Reloaded (it plays like lightning compared to the original Deadlands). Haven't tried fantasy or sci-fi yet.
I'm going back to C&C for fantasy gaming...but I'll probably run Savage Worlds for almost everything else.
Allen
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:57 pm
by Breakdaddy
rabindranath72 wrote:
It would be a pleasure...but I live in the UK
I see! Well, no worries, chieftain, we just need for you to save your cash until you can float a full-on Gen Con trip to Indy. I will see you in, what, 08? 09? BE THERE!
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:58 pm
by Breakdaddy
allensh wrote:
I cannot play just one game system, no matter how hard I try. Castles and Crusades is a great game for any type of old-school fantasy roleplaying...but Savage Worlds works so well for pulp, and of course for Deadlands Reloaded (it plays like lightning compared to the original Deadlands). Haven't tried fantasy or sci-fi yet.
I'm going back to C&C for fantasy gaming...but I'll probably run Savage Worlds for almost everything else.
Allen
WORD! Except add WFRP2 for Grim and Gritty low fantasy! TEH WIN!
Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:36 am
by anglefish
Better yet. Try mixing and matching genres and campaigns. It's smooth and sweet in SW.
I've done a modern version of Evernight (Alien Invasion) and steampunked 50 Fathoms with Deadlands' wierd science, never noticed a hiccup.
Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:57 am
by serleran
Or, just grab Castle Falkenstein and be done with it...
Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:51 am
by DangerDwarf
Well, my birthday is next week so I added SW to a long list of gift ideas for my wife to peruse. Hopefully she'll pick it up. If not I'm sure I'll slide it in there before the month is out.
Re: Savage Worlds?
Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:37 am
by DangerDwarf
Emryys wrote:
I've been using Go Fer Yer Gun, which uses C&C mechanics, to great effect...
I downloaded it and checked it out. Pretty good stuff. But Like I said before, I'm not a huge fan of a C&C/D&D style system for a game with guns. Works great with fantasy for me, but I like guns to be more deadly and whittling away HP's with one just don't seem right to me.
Currently I've been using Werewolf the Wild West along with elements of Dreadlands for my western/horror genre gaming. It's pretty fun as well, just the system is a bit irritating at times.
Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:26 pm
by anglefish
serleran wrote:
Or, just grab Castle Falkenstein and be done with it...
LOL! I would if every single copy I ever bought that was falling apart from the spine didn't end up vanishing somehow.
I'm not saying that a lot of my gaming buddies are thevies, but it seems that a book with that much coolness in it can't seem sit on a shelf forever. Maybe the game has some Glamour on it that places its rulebooks in the hands of those that would use it.
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:13 am
by DangerDwarf
Now that I got a copy of the SW book in my grubby hands I've had a chance to sit down and read through it today.
Wow.
I love a lot of what they do in the system. The wounds tracking, the vigor rolls to see if a badguy is dead or just incapacitated, the chase rules.
I'm looking forward to giving this system a test drive.
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:18 am
by Orpheus
anglefish wrote:
LOL! I would if every single copy I ever bought that was falling apart from the spine didn't end up vanishing somehow.
I'm not saying that a lot of my gaming buddies are thevies, but it seems that a book with that much coolness in it can't seem sit on a shelf forever. Maybe the game has some Glamour on it that places its rulebooks in the hands of those that would use it.
Aren't they suppose to reprint it sometime soon? I've seen that somewhere. Of course, I know how RPG company websites can become very outdated.
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:38 pm
by FTracer
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:41 pm
by anglefish
That's another great thing that C&C and Savage Worlds share, a great fan-based community that's willing to help each other out along with strong Internet community support. (and the company website is pretty generous as well)
If anything, the stuff on the Internet was a huge draw for me. It was great to have a whole BINDER of optional rules for free.
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:19 pm
by FTracer
Same here, I've got the binder chock full of settings I want to try out. Necessary Evil and 50 Fathoms are at the top of the list but there's fan made ones I want to give a whirl.
I'm up for any game my group wants to play but if I'm the GM I'll only run C&C or Savage Worlds. They make life easier for the GM, just say no to prep time!
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:20 pm
by DangerDwarf
Thanks. Some good stuff there.
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:03 pm
by Breakdaddy
I bought some excellent PDFs as well. The 3-PDF runs of the Sci Fi kits and Fantasy kits are invaluable as well as the Pulp Toolkit and Pulp GM PDFs. I recommend all of them, with the possible exception of the bestiaries, which were disappointingly devoid of art representing the critters contained within.