Does anyone use Warhammer Fantasy modules with C&C /d20

DaveyB · Post by **DaveyB** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:15 am

The subject pretty much says it all. Does anyone use any of the Warhammer modules with C&C or d20, and if so, how do you convert the monster stats to C&C/d20, or do you just substitute in C&C/d20 monsters instead? I have both of the WFRP editions, so you might ask why I want to even bother, which is a valid question.

My players are more involved with D&D than Warhammer, so it'd be easier on them and me if I just used C&C to run the adventure; more precisely, the Lure of the Liche Lord adventure, which looks darn sweet. Thanks again!

pactmaster · Post by **pactmaster** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:43 am

I never cross the twain as Warhammer is low fantasy in a grim and perilous world (or more like lowlife horror-fantasy the way I run it) and generally AD&D/D&D/C&C is higher fantasy. I run both new Warhammer and C&C, each is a bit of a refreshing break from the other. I wouldn't even begin to convert Warhammer adventures to another format. Why don't your players like the new Warhammer system? It is a bit d20ish if anything.

Beyondthebreach · Post by **Beyondthebreach** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:03 am

Warhammer has some high quality adventures, so I can understand you wanting to convert a few. I think there is no easy conversion - the best way is to be well versed in both systems (Warhammer and C&C) and to systematically go through and equate Warhammer NPC careers and monsters to C&C characters & Monsters.

First, get a rough idea of the "level" the Warhammer adventure would equate to. Is it low level (1st career) , low/mid level (2nd career), mid level (advanced careers) or high level ("2nd stage" advanced careers like Champion, Daemon Slayer, High Priest, etc.)

Monsters can be equated to C&C monsters where possible and common sense used to modify as appropriate - a Warhammer Orc with a Brute career is going to need to be increased in power from the average Orc. I have found that despite the differences in the systems, Warhammer and AD&D/C&C generally follow similar "power levels" for common monsters. "Run-of-the-Mill" Orcs and Goblins are "weak" low level encounters while a Minotaur should equal a Minotaur (and from this basis, you can devise lower power Beastmen, Gors, etc.)

NPCs will be trickier which is why it is best to have a good knowledge of playing both systems to get a clear idea of how power levels might be equated.

Most careers can be boiled down to either Fighter, Ranger, Knight, Thief, Cleric or Magic-User. Assassin = Assassin, of course and I guess there would be barbarians as well (i.e. Norse Berserker).

Number of attacks will have to be reduced to 1 for nearly every career and this would be a serious detriment as Warhammer PCs and NPCs are unlikely to have much in the way of Magic Items to enhance their characters. So, if your C&C characters have their fair share of Magic Items, you are going to have to throw a decent amount of minor/major items at prominent NPCs in order to keep things even.

It is definitely something I would prepare in advance rather than just winging it.

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:50 am

You might get some help by looking at "Darkness & Dread" (4$ on pdf) which is an excellent "treatise" and rule book on essentially doing Warhammer by using D&D. It is a really, really nice book.

Cheers,

Antonio

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:38 pm

I don't, and never would combine C&C with Warhammer Fantasy. In my mind the system for WFRP2 is too closely tied to the setting. I think that this is one of the games where the system and the setting merge hand-in-hand. Of course, my mind is warped in this way some times.

...............................................Omote

FPQ
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:45 pm

The easiest thing to do to convert is to modify C&C to reflect Warhammer, and not the other way around. This is done a variety of ways, but in the end, would not be a terribly difficult task... but not something I'd want to do, since the concepts are related, but on opposite spectrums -- and not in "feel," but "crunch." Warhammer is a heavier game than C&C.

Post by **Breakdaddy** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:42 pm

As much as I love C&C, I would't convert WFRP adventures to it or any D20 variant. Just play it in the excellent WFRP2 rules. The grittiness of the setting is damned difficult to represent in a hit point and level based game, and I feel it would lose some of its flavor because of this fact. It is not impossible to do, and you might have luck with it, but I would suggest giving WFRP2 a shot, even with old WFRP1 adventures, which are a snap to convert.

Inkpot · Post by **Inkpot** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:10 pm

I don't know about converting actual adventures, but I *did* do some WHFRP creature conversions to C&C (link in my sig). To my mind, the WHFRP "Old World" setting and the Erde/Aihrde setting are very similar - especially when you start looking at Inzae. I've always been in love with the WHFRP setting, but never quite cared for the rules system developed for it.

As far as converting adventures, I would focus more on the story of the adventure than the mechanics. Character classes are where you're going to run into the most trouble, methinks.

Hmm....

Now you're making me want to pick up a copy of the newest version of WHFRP, despite all the bad reviews I've heard about it. Once I finish with my Deliria campaign, I may just have to revisit this material.
Ink
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C&C: Blissfully devoid of gestalt neko-hin rogue/fighter/mages!!

Beyondthebreach · Post by **Beyondthebreach** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:32 pm

Inkpot wrote:
Now you're making me want to pick up a copy of the newest version of WHFRP, despite all the bad reviews I've heard about it.

Bad reviews? That's why I never read reviews. I think it is one of the best RPG rulesets ever made. I loved 1st edition Warhammer . . . but 2nd is far superior.

Inkpot · Post by **Inkpot** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:34 pm

Beyondthebreach wrote:
Bad reviews? That's why I never read reviews. I think it is one of the best RPG rulesets ever made. I loved 1st edition Warhammer . . . but 2nd is far superior.

I heard that they sanitized the setting...made it somehow less 'dark'. Is that true?

Ink
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Beyondthebreach · Post by **Beyondthebreach** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:43 pm

Inkpot wrote:
I heard that they sanitized the setting...made it somehow less 'dark'. Is that true?

Ink

Not as far as I can see . . . in fact, I find it to be one of the darkest settings I've read (certainly that was both good and dark) Keep in mind that Warhammer 2nd edition was intended to be well supported with supplements to flesh out all the details. If you want "dark" check out Children of the Horned Rat (skaven sourcebook) or the Tome of Corruption . . .

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:56 pm

I found the 2nd edition material to be watered down, but a bit more playable (ie, easier to understand to new people) than the original version, so that may be why it gets bad reviews. People don't like to be treated like they're stupid... I guess.

Beyondthebreach · Post by **Beyondthebreach** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:00 pm

serleran wrote:
People don't like to be treated like they're stupid... I guess.

Hey! Was that a shot at me?
. . . I can't tell.
j/k , of course!

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:10 pm

To be honest, I can't even remember hearing a single negative review of WFRPG2. Serl is right that the 1st edition when comapred to the second is watered down, but that waso nly to make the game more streamlined and sensible. In the original there were too many one-off mechanics that only pertained to certain professions, abilities, etc. In WFRPG2 they attempted to unify the mechanic and did a damn fine job of it.

As for being more dark, the setting didn't change but the book did. The new books are all in color and seem to make the setting appear more "bright." However, at least IMO the setting is just as dark as it ever was... albeit, more detailed.

...........................................................Omote

FPQ
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Inkpot · Post by **Inkpot** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:26 pm

Hmm....I may just have to pick this puppy up. I trust you guys infinitely more than anonymous reviewers who may be working for some competing company.
Thanks for the info!

Ink
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:30 pm

Know that Inkpot, there are a lot less rules in WFRPG2 then the 1st edition of the game. There are a few elements of d20-like mechanics in the game, at least upon first glace that's what I thought. So know this, the game does feel different upon first glace. It's slimmer, cleaner and more colorful (literally) then the original. This might be one factor that makes you think the game might not be fore you. However, read beyond the supremely high production values, and you'll see the game that you originally loved.

Of that, I think you'll agree.

Good luck.

...........................................Omote

FPQ
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
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Inkpot · Post by **Inkpot** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:42 pm

Honestly, game mechanics don't mean a whole lot for me. I don't buy a game for the mechanics. I buy it for the setting. If I like the setting enough, I'll be willing to tweak, edit, hack, and burn my way to a system that works for me. I may be in the minority here, but I didn't buy C&C because of how easy it is to play and comprehend (although that's certainly a nice perk!). I bought it because of Erde/Aihrde.
ANYWAYS...thanks again for the info on WHFRP. Now I'm all excited to pick it up....again.
Ink
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C&C: Blissfully devoid of gestalt neko-hin rogue/fighter/mages!!

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:19 pm

Inkpot wrote:
Now I'm all excited to pick it up....again.

The WFRP2 core book only contains a the periphery setting information, as you might expect. The best of the setting books is called Sigmar's Heirs which only describes the Old World in any kind of detail. Other lands are described, but only in very basic ways and from the point of view of the Empire. The rest of the book is all rules. This is somewhat differnt from the original in that the 2nd edtion of the game updates the world/setting information in supplemental sourcebooks. For example Knights of the Grail is a book that is only about Brettonia. Just a little additional FYI.

..............................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Post by **Breakdaddy** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:25 pm

Yes, pick it up and run a game at Gen Con for us, chief. That would be El RockS0rz. I love some WFRP2. Nothing beats it for gritty low fantasy. Of course, for high fantasy or anything more than low fantasy, C&C is far better siuited to the task.

Inkpot · Post by **Inkpot** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:30 pm

Breakdaddy wrote:
Yes, pick it up and run a game at Gen Con for us, chief. That would be El RockS0rz. I love some WFRP2. Nothing beats it for gritty low fantasy. Of course, for high fantasy or anything more than low fantasy, C&C is far better siuited to the task.

Oh if only I could afford to go....*smiles*

Ink
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:45 pm

Inkpot wrote:
Oh if only I could afford to go....*smiles*

Ink

Thats not very fire for you at all, hoss. Sorry you'll not be going, as we are going to have a lot of fun.

pactmaster · Post by **pactmaster** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:06 pm

The new Warhammer might seem watered down at first until you get into the other books, as mentioned before in this thread. The omission of an alignment system rubbed me wrong at first, especially considering Chaos is an important aspect of Warhammer. The Law gods are also gone, sadly. Then you find out the sinister secret that was not part of v1 and let it sink in.

I happen to run a Yahoogroup for the Warhammer fantasy rpg (and the upcoming 40k rpg too)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/warhammer_fantasy_rpg/

Just in case Strike to Stun or the Black Industries forums still leave you wit questions.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:18 pm

pactmaster wrote:
I happen to run a Yahoogroup for the Warhammer fantasy rpg (and the upcoming 40k rpg too)

I look forward to the 40KRP as well, especially if it's a well done as WFRP2. However, the fact that 40KRP has been delayed a further 6-7 months is rough... ugh.
.............................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

pactmaster · Post by **pactmaster** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:33 pm

I am not sure I am convinced of the format for the 40k rpg, which will be three interlocking games of different power levels, but I was also a little unsure of some aspects of the new Warhammer rpg and, while it took a while for some things to sink in, I really enjoy Warhammer Fantasy v2.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:29 pm

Yeah, I also wish that 40KRP wasn't broke up into 3 "power-level" aspects, but it's been said that it would be a 1000 page book if all three parts were brought together.

But, the book will probably look stellar.

.............................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:50 pm

I played 2nd edition, but for some reasons, still much prefer first edition. Don't know why...perhaps as serleran said, it seems like "watered down". Don't know And then, with first edition the core book was enough to create a whole campaign. With 2nd edition, one needs at least two books.

Post by **Breakdaddy** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:59 pm

rabindranath72 wrote:
I played 2nd edition, but for some reasons, still much prefer first edition. Don't know why...perhaps as serleran said, it seems like "watered down". Don't know And then, with first edition the core book was enough to create a whole campaign. With 2nd edition, one needs at least two books.

Probably 3 for the uninitiated. Core, Sigmars Heirs for background, and Bestiary for the really fire baddies. Cost of entry: HIGH. Quality of play: YAH!!!!!!!!

Post by **Breakdaddy** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:01 pm

OH! And the WFRP2 Companion is awesome cubed (A^3).

pactmaster · Post by **pactmaster** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:10 pm

And Realms of Sorcery for wizards. The adventures for v2 are not the most well written, whether the Paths of the Damned or those found in the backs of some of the books. Plundered Vaults has a few good adventures, but most of the best are on the Black Industries site, submitted by fans.

angelius · Post by **angelius** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:03 pm

I have to say that WFRP2 is one of my favourite games of all time (and I have 1st ed as well.)

I'm fairly picky with games but this game has a great setting even though its so commercialized. The sourcebooks are fantastic.

WFRP is good enough that I'm willing to drop some coin on 40krpg when it comes out, regardless of reviews.
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