Why does everyone seem to hate SR 4th ed

Post by **Breakdaddy** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:59 pm

Id probably use a damage track a la true 20 and the SIEGE system from C&C if I were inclined to manufacture a Modern game in such a way. In the meantime Savage Worlds is working nicely for my modern and sci fi gaming.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:04 pm

Breakdaddy wrote:
In the meantime Savage Worlds is working nicely for my modern and sci fi gaming.

I'm still dropping heavy hints about Savage Worlds with the hopes that my wife grabs it for my birthday.

I want that game.

Post by **Breakdaddy** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:19 pm

DangerDwarf wrote:
I'm still dropping heavy hints about Savage Worlds with the hopes that my wife grabs it for my birthday.

I want that game.

I am pretty sure you will like it, its a blast.

angelius · Post by **angelius** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:20 pm

I like wound systems too. So you dont get the,

"I've been mauled by an owlbear, bit and kicked. 1 HP left but I can still run, jump and basically act like nothing has happened."

I dislike that. But I understand the need for simplicity sometimes, there has to be a good medium.
_________________
Big Iron Vault Your friendly neighbourhood gaming magazine. Check out our new webcomic, The Heindrich Project!

Post by **Breakdaddy** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:30 pm

angelius wrote:
I like wound systems too. So you dont get the,

"I've been mauled by an owlbear, bit and kicked. 1 HP left but I can still run, jump and basically act like nothing has happened."

I dislike that. But I understand the need for simplicity sometimes, there has to be a good medium.

Agreed. C&C is the best compromise I've found.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:46 pm

I've an idea on how to use wounds and HP simultaneously... but it may not work too well, in the simplicity department.

When the attack is rolled, the result is compared to the needed to hit. If the result is more than 6, a mortal wound is inflicted; at 3+ to 5 the wound is serious, and at > 2 but success then a scratch. Mortal wounds cause the defender to make a save or die, outright; if the character survives, they lose 1/2 total HP. Serious wounds cause the loss of 1/4 HP, and scratches cause the loss of 1/6th (or a set value, based on weapon, whichever is lesser) HP is predetermined on Constitution score, and rarely increases.

Example, Joe Bob with the 18 Con gets 18 HP, and his attacker Wilbur Ray has a 12 Con (12 HP). Joe's AC is 14, and Wilbur's is 16. They are knife-fighting. Joe attacks and gets a total of AC 20, which is 4 more than the 16 needed. This is a serious wound (a stab to the stomach, or a slash on the wrist.) Wilbur goes from 12 HP to 9. He hits back with a scratch (a slice to the face), and this would normally be 3 HP (1/6th Joe's HP), but knifes can only inflict 1.. so Joe drops to 17 left. Joe attacks and misses, but Wilbur whips out an uzi and rolls a natural 20.. this is a mortal wound, and Joe fails his save, dying.

I dunno... maybe too complex.

angelius · Post by **angelius** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:34 pm

Ser, that's a good idea.

But the idea is pretty dependant on AC.

Say you were a high level barbarian who has a low AC (ie 16) versus a similar high level paladin or some plate tank (AC 20+ .. easily). The paladin with bonus to hit and high AC will win most of the time. Even though both are around the same level.

I guess I'm trying to say that this system would be bias towards AC fighters and will not have much emphasis on the skill of the attacker.
_________________
Big Iron Vault Your friendly neighbourhood gaming magazine. Check out our new webcomic, The Heindrich Project!

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:38 pm

Yeah, but that's also the point... its hard to mortally wound a fighter in full plate, but the barbie in studded might be able to take a lot of blows, if they're not heinous, but killing him outright only takes one good shot... though that barbie with his Con Prime probably will survive it. 'Course a fighter with Con Prime and heavy armor is a true terror... but I think that's fitting, from a purely "fantasy" stance.

And I would counter that skill has everything to do with whether you can kill someone. Its what gets you over the "threshold" for mortal wounds. If you're first level vs field plate, its much harder (if not impossible) to score a kill.. but if you're 12th level, its tons easier.

Plus, a cap of AC makes this much more workable, but its not perfect, for sure.

Alternatively, one could allow a PC to increase their AC naturally, but armor is basically a "don't kill me" defense... not a "don't hurt me" one. I think such a setup makes armor practical, and mandatory...

Then again, I wasn't thinking of using this for C&C itself, but a SIEGE-based modern (or post-modern) game.

I should clarify this:

Quote:
This is a serious wound (a stab to the stomach, or a slash on the wrist.) Wilbur goes from 12 HP to 9. He hits back with a scratch (a slice to the face), and this would normally be 3 HP (1/6th Joe's HP), but knifes can only inflict 1.. so Joe drops to 17 left.

The weapon will deal the lowest possible, unless the wound is not a scratch; so, basically, minimum on scratches only. This is to reflect that a knife can kill outright... but if its just a scratch, it won't do anywhere near as much as a serious wound would have.

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:28 pm

The best HP system for a modern setting that I have ever seen is the one in Call of Cthulhu. It is easy, but there is lots of space for customization.