serleran wrote:
Yep. Any social structure, of which religion is, has the possibility of inflicting all manners of harm, and, most often in the form of psychological damage, though unacceptable activities and intolerance. Doesn't mean all members do such, or that the whole does... but there does exist the potential. Maybe I'm evil.
Yeah, but in any social structure inherent risks are lessened by various controls. Do they stop all such abuses? No. Possibility is not probability is not absolute fact. If it were, then I'd have a winning lottery ticket by now.
*smiles* Im only personally anti social. What other folks want to do with themselves is entirely up to them. ^_~`
As for the discourse on this book and film. As I said, tis a piece of fantasy fic. If folks want to take a bit of fantasy film so seriously it gets under their skin, up to them I spose. ^_^
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'No.' " ~Rorschach
gideon_thorne wrote:
As for the discourse on this book and film. As I said, tis a piece of fantasy fic. If folks want to take a bit of fantasy film so seriously it gets under their skin, up to them I spose. ^_^
That's cool, and I'm not saying that the film is "the work of the Devil" or anything of the sort. I'm just saying that I agree with DCS in that parents who hold a belief in Christianity may want to know that they get to be the bad guys in the story, and if they don't want their children exposed to that then so be it. A lot of our understandings of basic ideas as children come from stories, books, plays, and plenty of other pieces of fiction. It's a way to illustrate a point and as kids we take them rather seriously. We're not talking about a witch trial here; just a little bit of info to get passed on to parents who may think that this is the "next Narnia."
Orpheus wrote:
Wow. Narnia has basically always been understood to be Christian allegory. Now you see what? I'm not trying to be a jackbag here.
Many of the elements of the Narnia story can be interpreted in accordance with a number of pantheistic structures. It's entirely dependent on the perspective of the person doing the reading. Intent of the author nonwidthstanding. ^_^
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'No.' " ~Rorschach
Despite what others typically view it as, I do not agree with the assessment that Narnia is "Christian." It is, in my opinion, pagan, specifically, part of the ancient "life-death-rebirth" tradition, of which Christianity itself is part. Just because they are related, doesn't mean they are the same.
serleran wrote:
Yep. Any person, of which we all are, has the possibility of inflicting all manners of harm, and, most often in the form of psychological damage, through unacceptable activities and intolerance. Doesn't mean all people do such, or that the whole planet does... but there does exist the potential. Maybe we're all evil.
Fixed.
Romans 3:23 wrote:
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
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AD&D, Amish Dungeons & Dragons.
"Galstaff, ye are in a cornfield, when a moustachioed man approaches. What say ye?"
"I shun him."
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"Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books."
-- E. Gary Gygax
Psalm 73:26
"Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books."
"Rules not understood should have appropriate questions directed to the publisher; disputes with the Dungeon Master are another matter entirely. THE REFEREE IS THE FINAL ARBITER OF ALL AFFAIRS OF HIS OR HER CAMPAIGN."
-- E. Gary Gygax
serleran wrote:
Despite what others typically view it as, I do not agree with the assessment that Narnia is "Christian." It is, in my opinion, pagan, specifically, part of the ancient "life-rebirth" tradition, of which Christianity itself is part.
The difference is that Christ and Aslan or not "re-born," but resurrected.
serleran wrote:
Despite what others typically view it as, I do not agree with the assessment that Narnia is "Christian." It is, in my opinion, pagan, specifically, part of the ancient "life-death-rebirth" tradition, of which Christianity itself is part. Just because they are related, doesn't mean they are the same.
Not how the author himself saw it:
Quote:
Lewis defended his use of different mythologies.
"He called [them] 'good dreams' that God sent humankind to prepare them for the 'true myth,' which, for Lewis, was the incarnation," said Bruce Edwards, an English professor and Lewis expert at Bowling Green State University in Ohio. "He believed myths were not legends but alternate histories that echoed our mysterious past."
"Galstaff, ye are in a cornfield, when a moustachioed man approaches. What say ye?"
"I shun him."
-----
"Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books."
-- E. Gary Gygax
Psalm 73:26
"Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books."
"Rules not understood should have appropriate questions directed to the publisher; disputes with the Dungeon Master are another matter entirely. THE REFEREE IS THE FINAL ARBITER OF ALL AFFAIRS OF HIS OR HER CAMPAIGN."
-- E. Gary Gygax
Not to burst your bubble or anything, Serl, but C.S. Lewis was a staunch Christian and wrote the Chronicles of Narnia as a distinctly Christian allegory. He had no other purpose in writing the books. He was a very close friend of J.R.R. Tolkien, who was also a devout Christian, but the two differed in their opinions on allegory - Tolkien despised it, and Lewis depended upon it.
Anyway, Narnia is Christian fiction. Always has been, always will be.
Do you really think it matters if the author wants it to be a certain way? Tolkien wanted people to shut up about the "World War II allegory" in Lord of the Rings, but it didn't happen. For good or ill, people see things differently, even if the author would rather they did not... this is a case of that. I know the history of the book, and I know of CS Lewis' affiliations. It doesn't change how I read the book, and how the story comes across to me. You won't change my opinion, and I'm not asking you to change yours.
I'm sorry if my view is opposed to yours, but its mine. Get your own. Hehe.
Whatcha mean 'we' white man? ^_~`
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'No.' " ~Rorschach
serleran wrote:
I do not agree with the assessment that Narnia is "Christian."
Perhaps this is the statement that caused the confusion. Narnia being a work of Christian fiction is a "fact", not an "opinion". You can have the opinion that you can fly like superman if you like, but throw yourself off the nearest building and you'll soon learn the difference between fact and opinion. I honestly could care less what your "opinion" of Narnia is. I was simply pointing out the truth. Take it or leave it. No skin off mine, either way.
Ink
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Just because you wrote your post in a polite and respectful manner does not mean it will be so for those reading it. really, jut as soon as he wrote the book he left the realm of act to the realm of interpretation.
And according to serl's interpretation, and mine as well, his own thoughts on it are not what is there.
_________________
"We cannot live only for ourselves. A thousand fibers connect us with our fellow men; and among those fibers, as sympathetic threads, our actions run as causes, and they come back to us as effects." - Attributed to Herman Melville.
*chuckles* Welcome to the world of allegory. Hence a work of fantasy fiction being fiction and ought to be treated as such.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'No.' " ~Rorschach
Inkpot wrote:
Anyway, Narnia is Christian fiction. Always has been, always will be.
I liked Narnia, I didn't see it as christian fiction, just a book I enjoyed. Even if the author intended it to be, I didn't see it. Then again, I'm not christian so I may have missed the stuff.
Yes, it does look interesting. Did y'all see the trailer? Very good and with a good cast, it seems.
Heh, my daemon is a tiger!
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Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
The above daemon thing is making its rounds on Livejournal. ^_^
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'No.' " ~Rorschach
Hmm.. Im sensing 'links' in the cattiness in this topic.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'No.' " ~Rorschach
I would better not mention that i got a tiger as well, Arthemis.
Did I say that aloud?
Man... I keep doing that.
_________________
"We cannot live only for ourselves. A thousand fibers connect us with our fellow men; and among those fibers, as sympathetic threads, our actions run as causes, and they come back to us as effects." - Attributed to Herman Melville.
If you act childish enough maybe it will get its shapechanging powers back?
_________________
"We cannot live only for ourselves. A thousand fibers connect us with our fellow men; and among those fibers, as sympathetic threads, our actions run as causes, and they come back to us as effects." - Attributed to Herman Melville.
serleran wrote:
Do you really think it matters if the author wants it to be a certain way? Tolkien wanted people to shut up about the "World War II allegory" in Lord of the Rings, but it didn't happen. For good or ill, people see things differently, even if the author would rather they did not... this is a case of that. I know the history of the book, and I know of CS Lewis' affiliations. It doesn't change how I read the book, and how the story comes across to me. You won't change my opinion, and I'm not asking you to change yours.
I'm sorry if my view is opposed to yours, but its mine. Get your own. Hehe.
Interpretation/perception of a work is what determines what a work is to a person, not the intention of the writer or artist who created it.
The author/writer/creator is happiest when others interpret/perceive the work the way the artist wanted them to.
But that doesn't mean that is how their work "has" to be interpreted.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Treebore wrote:
Interpretation/perception of a work is what determines what a work is to a person, not the intention of the writer or artist who created it.
The author/writer/creator is happiest when others interpret/perceive the work the way the artist wanted them to.
But that doesn't mean that is how their work "has" to be interpreted.
I think the issue was that Ser said he didn't agree with the assessment of Narnia as a Christian-themed story. Everyone was just pointing out that the way most people see it is the way in which it was intended. If one can't see that then the core concept of Christianity and the New Testament probably isn't fully understood. Not necessarily believed, but not understood. Family Guy isn't going to be funny if you don't get the references.
Orpheus wrote:
I think the issue was that Ser said he didn't agree with the assessment of Narnia as a Christian-themed story. Everyone was just pointing out that the way most people see it is the way in which it was intended. If one can't see that then the core concept of Christianity and the New Testament probably isn't fully understood. Not necessarily believed, but not understood. Family Guy isn't going to be funny if you don't get the references.
I think if we started discussing how much "pagan" belief's and even ceremonies are practiced in Christian faiths this would quickly degenerate into a nature not desired on this message board.
But that is what would have to be discussed to explain why Ser is able to interpret the Narnia books the way he does.
So we are going to have to remain ambiguous. Plus polite.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Get your own. 
Hehe.
