Eberron love it or hate it?

anglefish · Post by **anglefish** » Tue May 15, 2007 2:59 am

bulletmeat wrote:
I kind of agree with the concept of making magic rare usually makes if more 'special and fearsome'. If all this power is available to everyone, what fun is it to wield as a PC?

I've gone back and around on this sort of thing. One of the reasons I left old DnD was because only the NPC wizards could make castles that float in the sky. What was the point of going out on adventures when the guys staying in their labs got somewhere with their research?

With the right guys, supporting a group that can rearrange your sandbox and make it their own rocks. Before my 3.5 Eberron game had to be bequeathed to someone else, my 5th level group was already designing a stronghold tower and were committed to cleaning out the ghettos in the City of Sharn. If I had been able to continue to run the game, I would have gladly given them the keys to the continent at higher levels and provided an epic story to match.

Then again you usually get the guys who just pull together one trick ponies that get redesigned every other session.

concobar wrote:
Hate it.

And the races of eberron? robots.. yay! .

Just one quibble. They're golems. Just think intellgent swords with legs and arms and you're closer.

Warforged minds don't get "reprogramed" or "formatted," it's the same personality and skills. Though they do get some nice toys.

Jynx · Post by **Jynx** » Tue May 15, 2007 3:23 pm

I love it.

I am not a fan of all the complexities in 3.x, nor the same complexities built into Eberron. I simply ignore them!

Before C&C I would ignore the complexities (i.e. RULES!), but had problems with well infrormed 3.x players who liked to point out rules that would slow down the game and ruin the fun for me.

When I found C&C I thought PERFECT! C&C has allowed me to run super fast paced games that really allow the pulpy aspect of Eberron shine.

The flying airships, lightning rails, and all that magic stuff is just part of the setting that you either appreciate or not. The 'robots' are not 'robots' and I hate it when people think of them that way. It shows how those that do call them robots don't truly understand the whole concept of a warforged. The shifters and chngelings are just COOL, and the Kalashtar psionics race are OK - for me. I don't use Kalashtar bit all the rest is in there. Action points help in the pulpy feel. The various governments and factions within nations is just fantastic.

It's true that they try to blend alot of elements into one huge setting and it can seem overwhelming. The thing is to take what you like (if anything) and go with that.

Also.. it's important to keep in mind that just because there are fast methods of transportation doesn't mean that the PCs can actually use it all the time. There are still overland horse travel. We still have classic dungeon crawls. It's all in there and having a good mix is a winning Eberron campaign. I don't always have airships, or trains, or warforge armeis or whatever.

Many of us C&C fans are anti 3.x and unfortunately many people here are naturally against Eberron and that's a shame. For me it's a tough spot because I love both C&C and Eberron and it's difficult to get people to meet halfway to actually enjoy a game. Those that took part in my many games at a local store had a blast and went home with the knowledge to say they actually hate it or not without prejudice.

So all that to say - I LOVE IT. I LOVE C&C.

If you have any questions just ask me since I've been running both Eberron and C&C for well over 2 years now.

concobar · Post by **concobar** » Tue May 15, 2007 7:43 pm

Jynx wrote:
The 'robots' are not 'robots' and I hate it when people think of them that way. It shows how those that do call them robots don't truly understand the whole concept of a warforged.

Enlighten me.

What exactly is the difference between a warforged and a cylon or android? because one is build with scientific based technology and the other is built with magic based technology they are different in function or concept? Is there any difference between a warforged and C3PO? I think not. Both a warforged and C3PO are artificially created and possessed of artificial intelligence. Both were created by biological sentients to perform a function. exchange creation forge for robotics factory and you have the same creation. To claim warforged are not robots or android shows a complete lack of knowledge concerning what robots, androids, and warforged really are.

basic web search for robot.
robot

(1) A device that responds to sensory input. See under robotics.

(2) A program that runs automatically without human intervention. Typically, a robot is endowed with some artificial intelligence so that it can react to different situations it may encounter. Two common types of robots are agents and spiders
robotics

(1) The science of using a machine (a robot) to perform manual functions without human intervention.

or maybe type in define android.
Android

(1) An android is an artificially created being that resembles a human being. The word derives from Greek Andr- 'man, human' and the suffix -eides used to mean 'of the species, kind, alike' (from eidos 'species').

(2) an automaton that resembles a human being

(3) Androids in the Dragon Ball series are the creations of Dr Gero. They are much more powerful than regular humans.

Nelzie · Post by **Nelzie** » Tue May 15, 2007 7:50 pm

I fully agree with concobar, warforged are just a "Fantasy Magic" based robot/android creation.

They might not have been "robots/androids" if they happened naturally, like were the offspring of Treants and or particularly Prime material plane grounded Earth Elementals. Only they aren't, there were specifically crafted by wizards to fight a war.
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Jynx · Post by **Jynx** » Tue May 15, 2007 9:30 pm

I'm not disputing the 'definition' of ROBOT, just that what people think of robots is not what a warforge is.

When I think robot I think of the mechanical things built to do specific tasks such as the jetsons maid. Or how about that robot from lost in space. C3PO and R2D2. Even DATA from Star Trek since he can technically be 'programmed' by a computer. You do not 'program' a warforge, you only train him to do whatever you want just as you would train human children.

Warforge do not act 'robotic'. They may be made of material other than flesh, but they are more than a few chuncks of wood and metal pieced together to form a body. They have intelligence and can make decisions for themselves. They have feelings, emotions and a personality which can be either female or male. They do not need sustanance, instead magic is what fules their life force. A life which is infused into the 'shell' at time of creation. Depending on the DM and the campaign, the warforged character can even have a soul. If you know Eberron then you know that the warforged race have been struggling with their identity and purpose in life. YES - they were made as soldiers for a depleted army, but they were infants in metal cages who were told what to do. No freedom and the constant training and killing made them either turn from a life of violence or continue on the path choosen for them. Thus a strugglnig new race has emereged with problems not unlike many other races. Racism runs rampent in certain parts of Eberron due to the stigmatism attached to the original purpose of the warforge. They may not shed tears, but I assure you that the warforge of Eberron are effected by their past history and prejudices that exist today.

I think of a warforge as a soul transplanted from 'wherever' into a shell. A young life full of questions. A character that can perform amazing things but with the personality of a child or one that has been forced to grow up quickly in an unforgiving society.

If you have a good role player, then the race can be a great choice for variety in your campaign.

I love Eberreon regardless of what all the old school people may say.

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Tue May 15, 2007 11:12 pm

Gah, Sounds like Eberron is a Political Correctness primer....
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anglefish · Post by **anglefish** » Tue May 15, 2007 11:56 pm

Quote:
Nelzie Posted:

I fully agree with concobar, warforged are just a "Fantasy Magic" based robot/android creation.

Which is usually called a golem (or a living statue) in fantasy litertature. A myth that's been around longer than robots.

Quote:
American Heritage Dictionary

n. In Jewish folklore, an artificially created human supernaturally endowed with life.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) golem /ˈgoʊləm, -lɛm/

noun 1. Jewish Folklore. a figure artificially constructed in the form of a human being and endowed with life.

Warforged have been called sentinet golems from the begining.

Is a lich's phylactory his "back up drive?" Better yet, if a lich put his phylactory into an animated statue, would that make him a "Fantasy Magic" based cyborg? (... wait. I'm writing that idea down! Next reoccuring villian! Yes!!!!!!)

Besides I lost count on how many high Ego magical swords have taken their PC for little test drive. Does that make them viruses or operating systems?

anglefish · Post by **anglefish** » Wed May 16, 2007 12:02 am

Forgive the double post, but I want to give a shout out for Jynx's Eberron material.

Not all of it is my style, but the parts I want work for me.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Wed May 16, 2007 12:07 am

I just want to see a module where a warforged is sent back in time to kill the woman who is going to give birth to a great general that is destined to defeat one of the houses and...

Actually, if you look at the design of the warforged, it appears they are intentionally made to resemble fantasy robots. Look at the art, the whole glowy "power strip" thing. They appear to be intentionally robotic.

I know they have "potential" for great RP, but the idea of racism, bigotry, overcoming all that crap isn't very new. Several Sci-fi books deal with that theme in artificial intelligence.

ALl that stuff aside though, the "robots" aren't the real reason I dislike eberron anyways. They're just fun to pick at. Overall eberonn just aint my kind of setting. More power to those who do like it though.

bulletmeat · Post by **bulletmeat** » Wed May 16, 2007 3:25 pm

I believe that the definition of the Warforged really depends on your frame of mind. The 'wizards' of ancient time used knowledge that most people did not know. If someone from the future created a robot in the past wouldn't that be seen as creating a golem? Today we fly through the air on huge metal birds. To the ancient mind it is seen as magic, until they learn the science behind them. Once you know the physics behind science or magic for that matter ('I cast fireball' really doesn't give up the intricacies into the physics of it.)

Today robots can learn and proccess certain problems around them. If they are able to realize their own mortality, are they really alive, or are they simply the combination of programs that people put together to create that 'personality'?

If a bolt of lightning hits a warforged do they get a soul? (Shout out to tha Short Circuit lovers out there!)
To some it can be seen as a robot because we have not seen the limit of what robotic science can do yet. Others seen if as a golem.

concobar · Post by **concobar** » Wed May 16, 2007 8:15 pm

Jynx wrote:
I'm not disputing the 'definition' of ROBOT, just that what people think of robots is not what a warforge is.

In your opinion which in this case is wrong. I will respond point by point.

Jynx wrote:
When I think robot I think of the mechanical things built to do specific tasks such as the jetsons maid. Or how about that robot from lost in space. C3PO and R2D2. Even DATA from Star Trek since he can technically be 'programmed' by a computer. You do not 'program' a warforge, you only train him to do whatever you want just as you would train human children.

You are splitting hairs. training is programming. when Neo learns kung fu in the matrix is he being trained or programmed? does it matter?

Jynx wrote:
Warforge do not act 'robotic'.

According to who? what do robots act like? I think Isaac Asimov would disagree with your statement.

Jynx wrote:
They may be made of material other than flesh, but they are more than a few chuncks of wood and metal pieced together to form a body.

Artificially created body? check

Jynx wrote:
They have intelligence and can make decisions for themselves.

So did the terminator or any of a dozen robotic characters in Asomovs works. So do the cylons in BSG... are the not robots?

Jynx wrote:
They have feelings, emotions and a personality which can be either female or male.

As do C3PO, R2D2, Johnny 5 or Bender from futurerama

Jynx wrote:
They do not need sustanance, instead magic is what fules their life force.

As opposed to electricity or alchohol.

Jynx wrote:
A life which is infused into the 'shell' at time of creation.

You mean thier basic programming?

Jynx wrote:
Depending on the DM and the campaign, the warforged character can even have a soul. If you know Eberron then you know that the warforged race have been struggling with their identity and purpose in life. YES - they were made as soldiers for a depleted army, but they were infants in metal cages who were told what to do.

Like terminators? like Ogres in ogre GEV? like any of a hundred robots in stories and movies? ever see the movie screamers? same thing.

Jynx wrote:
No freedom and the constant training and killing made them either turn from a life of violence or continue on the path choosen for them. Thus a strugglnig new race has emereged with problems not unlike many other races.

How does this make them not robots?

Jynx wrote:
Racism runs rampent in certain parts of Eberron due to the stigmatism attached to the original purpose of the warforge. They may not shed tears, but I assure you that the warforge of Eberron are effected by their past history and prejudices that exist today.

So kinda like the matrix cartoon then where the robots were despised and eventually attacked by the humans? I am not sure racism is the correct term for hatred of robots though. As they are artificial one would wonder at thier place in society as slaves citizens or simple tools... maybe you should rewatch Bladerunner.

Jynx wrote:
I think of a warforge as a soul transplanted from 'wherever' into a shell.

A Ghost in a shell? boy those warforged sure are original!

Jynx wrote:
A young life full of questions. A character that can perform amazing things but with the personality of a child or one that has been forced to grow up quickly in an unforgiving society.

You will notice that I keep making reference to various movies and books. The reason I do so is that you may understand where the warforged really come from.

Jynx wrote:
If you have a good role player, then the race can be a great choice for variety in your campaign.

If you are a good role player you do not need gimmicky races or robots.. you can make the most plain vanilla fighter memorable.

Jynx wrote:
I love Eberreon regardless of what all the old school people may say.

I am not saying not to like what you like. I think that it is good that you are happy with you robots and what not. As a person that loves sci fi and sci fi games such as traveller and star frontiers I also have a soft spot for the self aware artificial being be he robot or android. Mechanoids were one of my personal favorites. What I do not like is the post industrial magic as technology setting of eberron with its robots, air ships, steel clads, and trains. I like my fantasy medieval. The fact is Eberron is a knock off of iron kingdoms and not a well done one at that.

anglefish · Post by **anglefish** » Wed May 16, 2007 9:01 pm

Golem or robot, regardless ...*

Jynx wrote:
When I found C&C I thought PERFECT! C&C has allowed me to run super fast paced games that really allow the pulpy aspect of Eberron shine.

....

So all that to say - I LOVE IT. I LOVE C&C.

If you have any questions just ask me since I've been running both Eberron and C&C for well over 2 years now.

I guess I can't complain that the thread came back around and there's a kindred soul.
*To save everyone time, just imagine I responded point by point to Conobar and substituting "golem" for "robot" and including characters like Roger the Homolculus, the Tin Man and other fantasy/mythical characters that were souls in artifical bodies.

(I'm still running with that lich/animated statue idea. )

Prince of Happiness · Post by **Prince of Happiness** » Wed May 16, 2007 9:20 pm

No sci fi in my fantasy! I like my games old school...just. Like. Expedition to the Barrier Peaks.

concobar · Post by **concobar** » Wed May 16, 2007 10:46 pm

anglefish wrote:
*To save everyone time, just imagine I responded point by point to Conobar and substituting "golem" for "robot" and including characters like Roger the Homolculus, the Tin Man and other fantasy/mythical characters that were souls in artifical bodies.

(I'm still running with that lich/animated statue idea. )

Homunculus

The term appears to have been first used by the alchemist Paracelsus. He once claimed that he had created a false human being that he referred to as the homunculus. The creature was to have stood no more than 12 inches tall, and did the work usually associated with a golem. However, after a short time, the homunculus turned on its creator and ran away. The recipe consisted of a bag of bones, semen, skin fragments and hair from any animal of which the homunculus would be a hybrid. This was to be laid in the ground surrounded by horse manure for forty days, at which point the embryo would form.

I can see some similarity to be sure but I would point out that the homunculus is a flesh and blood creation. there are no metal or wooden parts.

The tin man... /shrugs

substituting golem for robot in my earlier post makes absolutely no sense. What I think is funny is that eberron players get so much in a twist about the robot issue. No one that plays star frontiers cares nor does anyone who plays gamma world so why then do eberron players get offended over the usage of robot to describe what is by any other name, a robot.

Thinking of gamma world it does seem that eberron has more in common with that setting than with greyhawk or forgotten realms.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed May 16, 2007 11:01 pm

It seems to me like too many people on the various messageboards who have 3E as their primary RPG are willing to "get in a twist" over pretty much anything.

The complexity of the game feeds this, I think. Simple games=laid back attitude.

Complex game rules=higher level of stress=argumentative attitude.

Like I said earlier in this thread, nothing about Eberron has attracted me to it. Which is unusual considering how many settings I do own and like. I even checked out Iron Kingdoms. Much to my surprise I even like it.

Jynx · Post by **Jynx** » Thu May 17, 2007 12:33 am

Everyone has their own opinions and I try to simply explain my point of view without calling someone 'WRONG'.

It seems I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. No matter my preferences...

- simple rules = C&C

- cool modern/sc fi mix setting = Eberron

I get shot at from both sides. It's for this reason I've abandoned WOTC boards and many times I don't want to bother with this place either... to old school for my tastes.

Anyway, I'm done with this topic - thanks for your input. I've expressed my opinions concerning Eberron and have finally found another with similar interests.

peace out

anglefish · Post by **anglefish** » Thu May 17, 2007 1:54 pm

concobar wrote:
Homunculus

The term appears to have been first used by the alchemist Paracelsus. He once claimed that he had created a false human being that he referred to as the homunculus. The creature was to have stood no more than 12 inches tall, and did the work usually associated with a golem. However, after a short time, the homunculus turned on its creator and ran away. The recipe consisted of a bag of bones, semen, skin fragments and hair from any animal of which the homunculus would be a hybrid. This was to be laid in the ground surrounded by horse manure for forty days, at which point the embryo would form.

I can see some similarity to be sure but I would point out that the homunculus is a flesh and blood creation. there are no metal or wooden parts.

The tin man... /shrugs

substituting golem for robot in my earlier post makes absolutely no sense. What I think is funny is that eberron players get so much in a twist about the robot issue. No one that plays star frontiers cares nor does anyone who plays gamma world so why then do eberron players get offended over the usage of robot to describe what is by any other name, a robot.

Thinking of gamma world it does seem that eberron has more in common with that setting than with greyhawk or forgotten realms.

The fictional character Roger the Homoculous from Hellboy has an inhuman look (like he's made of clay) has a huge hole in his chest and feeds off mystical engergy. He might be misnamed, but he's a typical warforged concept

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_(Hellboy))

I guess I get "get in a twist" about the goelm concept becuase I'd "get in a twist" if someone kept calling my elven character a gnome or an Area 51 gray alien. "Hey, they're both skinny, have an affinity for supernatural powers and come from an anicent civilation that was in bloom when man was still in caves." For all we know, some grey's live in plants back home.

It seems that we can agree that who enjoy Eberron and similar eclectic settings see an difference between the two definitons that others can't or don't want to see and that some Eberron players embrace that level of distinciton.

concobar · Post by **concobar** » Thu May 17, 2007 8:30 pm

I really dont think we should base our definitions off of a comic book especially when the actual definition is centuries old.

Warforged are robots in exactly the same way that the terminator is a robot.. so what? If you are comfortable with having robots as a player race in your game then more power to you. But just for a second lets get past the robots and talk a bit about the dinosaur riding kender or the elemental powered submarines, aircraft, and trains... Dinosaur riding halfling barbarians...thats just really really bad imo. halflings are sort pudgy farmers that live in quiet communities and enjoy lots of food, drink, and tobacco. Everyone knows that. They do not ride velocorapters and sling boomarangs at people.

Orcs are evil.

Silver dragons are good.

Gods grant spells to clerics.

If you really think about it eberron is shadowrun set in a renaissance/early industrial world... thats it. yay creativity and originality!

At least we didnt have anyone post that eberron is a breath of fresh air or any of the other corp speak slogans WotC seem to be spoon feeding the eberron fans.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu May 17, 2007 8:55 pm

Jynx wrote:
Everyone has their own opinions and I try to simply explain my point of view without calling someone 'WRONG'.

It seems I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. No matter my preferences...

- simple rules = C&C

- cool modern/sc fi mix setting = Eberron

I get shot at from both sides. It's for this reason I've abandoned WOTC boards and many times I don't want to bother with this place either... to old school for my tastes.

Anyway, I'm done with this topic - thanks for your input. I've expressed my opinions concerning Eberron and have finally found another with similar interests.

peace out

I know how you feel. After years of supporting ENWorld by buying membership and spending hundreds at their ENnies auctions, buying tons of pdf's through them, I ended up banning myself from their boards (self imposed, nothing ENWorld did).

I just got tired of everyones inability for anyone to say anything even remotely sounding like its anti-3E.

So I will no longer support them. Not a penny. They are not a community for me anymore.

Fortunately I have plenty of other things to spend my money on. TLG, Paizo, Necromancer, Goodman, and Ronin Games are getting a few hundred dollars more per year from my bank accounts. Plus other companies I like.

In the long run I'll probably be glad I don't support ENWorld anymore.

Now I am darn glad I didn't become an ENnies Judge. My "Castles and Crusades contamination" may have been a big part as to why. IF so, my gain.

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Thu May 17, 2007 11:49 pm

concobar wrote:
I really dont think we should base our definitions off of a comic book especially when the actual definition is centuries old.

Warforged are robots in exactly the same way that the terminator is a robot.. so what? If you are comfortable with having robots as a player race in your game then more power to you. But just for a second lets get past the robots and talk a bit about the dinosaur riding kender or the elemental powered submarines, aircraft, and trains... Dinosaur riding halfling barbarians...thats just really really bad imo. halflings are sort pudgy farmers that live in quiet communities and enjoy lots of food, drink, and tobacco. Everyone knows that. They do not ride velocorapters and sling boomarangs at people.

Orcs are evil.

Silver dragons are good.

Gods grant spells to clerics.

If you really think about it eberron is shadowrun set in a renaissance/early industrial world... thats it. yay creativity and originality!

At least we didnt have anyone post that eberron is a breath of fresh air or any of the other corp speak slogans WotC seem to be spoon feeding the eberron fans.

concobar, I think you need to give it a rest. You're incessant posting about what you think about robots, warforged and eberron, is your opinion and we all know what people say about opinions.

You don't need to do point by point rebuttals of someone's views here, especially in the manner in which you've done. Not too friendly.

Nobody is wrong. If a Crusader likes eberron or any other campaign world, we don't go attacking him here.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:45 am

Prince of Happiness wrote:
No sci fi in my fantasy! I like my games old school...just. Like. Expedition to the Barrier Peaks.

Yeah!

Oh...wait.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:49 am

Rhuvein wrote:
You don't need to do point by point rebuttals of someone's views here, especially in the manner in which you've done. Not too friendly.

What he said.

Jynx · Post by **Jynx** » Fri May 18, 2007 1:02 pm

- Flying scissor kicks off the dungeon sidewall

- Impossible jumps across wide chasms while slicing a sword mid air at an escaping villain

- furious swordplay atop a fast moving rail car

- High flying acrobatics between 2 fighting airships

- Free fall jumps off the back of a sky coach to feather fall atop a tower during a museum heist

etc...

Pulp... action... serial flic feel....

That's my Eberron. It's not so much the actual 'Eberron' races, the nations, the classes, etc..., as it is the way I play / CK it. I allow for the impossible/heroic to take place and we create these fast paced scenarios that you expect to find in the latest summer blockbuster. Is it D&D? Yes & NO. It's got the basic elements... AC, HP, Character Class, Dungeons, Dragons... etc... . Yet it also has a lot more of the not so classic style settings (even halfings riding dinosaurs!). Do I hate GreyHAwk, Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft, or any other setting ... Not at all - I play in them all. It's simply that Eberron allows me to finally CK the game the way I want to play it. Imagine the response I would get from my DM if my Forgotten Realms Thief wanted to free fall from a flying 'something', onto the top of a building in Waterdeep! It's just not a good fit. It's like taking Jackie Chan and putting him into a LOTR movie . My players have a blast knowing they're playing the part of the hero in that summer block buster. I play in several 2nd ed games - all old school. I like them, but a part of me wants that over the top hollywood action that you simply don't get in the other settings I've seen.

So... my question is what other settings do you think/know that offer and in fact promote this kind of game play? I'm not into SCI FI like Star Trek, Star Wars or any other. I prefer the old fantasy setting mixed with a little over the top crazy fun.

My Eberron with 3.x was like watching the latest blockbuster at 15 frames pers second. As soon as I switched to C&C it's like we put it at 60 frames per second - I love it! Does anyone else play or CK a game as fast paced and furious as this? If so how and what setting?

Just Curious.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Fri May 18, 2007 1:32 pm

I've been trying out the super, kung fu, high action blockbuster, over the top fun like you're talking about in fantasy gaming with the SW system. Works pretty good for that regardless of setting.

anglefish · Post by **anglefish** » Fri May 18, 2007 1:52 pm

Middle Age European fantasy with a pulp/Swashbuckler feel? I can't think of one off the top of my head.

Perhaps a BESEM fantasy game or BESM d20 could do it out of the box, though.

The original over the top fantasy setting in this vein might have been Fung Shui, where you could play Buddist monks, but that was only part of a whole time-travel setting that included cyborg apes and 20th Century Hong Kong cops.

The next I think is DragonFist, a WotC pdf experiement pre 3.0. It's offline now since the author now has Green Ronin publishing it sometime in the future. But that was also Ancient China.

As for what I CK this weekend, stay tuned ...

Tank · Post by **Tank** » Fri May 18, 2007 2:40 pm

Jynx wrote:
- Flying scissor kicks off the dungeon sidewall

- Impossible jumps across wide chasms while slicing a sword mid air at an escaping villain

- furious swordplay atop a fast moving rail car

- High flying acrobatics between 2 fighting airships

- Free fall jumps off the back of a sky coach to feather fall atop a tower during a museum heist

That sounds like as good an advertisement for the SIEGE engine as it is for Eberron. It's like they were made for each other.

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Fri May 18, 2007 4:45 pm

Sci-Fi and fantasy have been mixed from the beginning. Look at the Blackmoor setting. Or the Lightsaber that appeared in the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun. That doesn't bother me. It's not my style but it doesn't bother me.

My problem with Eberron comes from the intent of WOTC to turn D&D from fantasy to some sort of Anime game. I'm not knocking it but it definately isn't for everyone. As I have gotten older I prefer more traditional fantasy. This Japanese style, Final Fantasy clone isn't something I like anymore. Hell, I haven't liked Final Fantasy much since after #7 when the game became more technological than fantasy.
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concobar · Post by **concobar** » Fri May 18, 2007 7:15 pm

Rhuvein wrote:
concobar, I think you need to give it a rest. You're incessant posting about what you think about robots, warforged and eberron, is your opinion and we all know what people say about opinions.

You don't need to do point by point rebuttals of someone's views here, especially in the manner in which you've done. Not too friendly.

Nobody is wrong. If a Crusader likes eberron or any other campaign world, we don't go attacking him here.

And here I thought this thread was about why we love or hate eberron? I stated the multiple reasons I do not like eberron and was called out on my usage of robot when describing warforged, a usage that fits the classic definition. I have read eberron and I completely feel it is the worst jumble of non-sense ever written. see, unlike you post mine actually has something to do with the topic of the thread.

Tank wrote:
My Eberron with 3.x was like watching the latest blockbuster at 15 frames pers second. As soon as I switched to C&C it's like we put it at 60 frames per second - I love it! Does anyone else play or CK a game as fast paced and furious as this? If so how and what setting?

Yes and I use Greyhawk.

I find that C&C has sped up every aspect of gameplay and especially combat to the point that the story once again takes front seat to the rules.. and I like that. I can see where people who desire less cumbersome rules playing any campaign would prefer C&C for its ease of play and fast pace but trying to pretend eberron invented fast paced pulp action for the D&D game is not only untrue it is a corporate contrivance. Remember there was a conan setting for AD&D and conan is classified as pulp.

As for the whole "pulp" thing I admit I dont get it.. Conan is considered pulp but I have always felt it was heroic fantasy. I looked up "pulp" online and read that it had to do with the low quality paper that early fantasy/adventure stories were written on and not so much the actual content of the novel.

DangerDwarf wrote:
Prince of Happiness wrote:

No sci fi in my fantasy! I like my games old school...just. Like. Expedition to the Barrier Peaks.

Yeah!

Oh...wait.

Seems funny to justify eberron by pointing to a module about one spaceship crashed on an isolated mountain top. I suppose we should have talking humpty dumptys and what not running about our fantasy worlds as well as there was a module with them in it.

Dangerdwarf If you must post responses to me try to be original. Being a yesman is kinda sad.

And to all, sorry if you have become offended by my hate posts concerning eberron in the "eberron love it or hate it" thread. I am sure that seeing people post that they hate a setting in a thread devoted to why you love or hate a setting was traumatic. my bad.

Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Fri May 18, 2007 7:21 pm

Haven't seen it, so really can't say. Was never a big fan of steam-punk though.
_________________
Eulaliaaa!!! Give those rapscallions blood and vinegar, wot?!

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Prince of Happiness · Post by **Prince of Happiness** » Fri May 18, 2007 7:21 pm

concobar wrote:
Seems funny to justify eberron by pointing to a module about one spaceship crashed on an isolated mountain top. I suppose we should have talking humpty dumptys and what not running about our fantasy worlds as well as there was a module with them in it.

Oh come on now, I kid, I kid, but there are many other adventures, campaign settings, and fiction that also combine the "sci-fi" with "fantasy" a distinction, which, didn't become fully defined until Tolkien-mania, but please, continue being defensive about stating what you don't like about a setting and people disagreeing with you.