things that I'd do if I were CEO and president of TLG

huds0n · Post by **huds0n** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:23 pm

If i were running TLG i would've already spent all the cash on hookers and blow.
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Post by **Fiffergrund** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:01 pm

I'd take it online. Let's face it - finding players is hard. A significant investment in developing some interface for one of the existing online Pen and Paper utilities would go a long way.

Full rules support for one of these utilities in the form of a downloadable package would be great, and it would be a nice arrangement for the owners of said utilities to broaden their user base.

I'd be very interested in an online game at this point, but I've yet to find a solution that fits my needs. This would be one obstacle out of the way in this effort.
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Post by **Fiffergrund** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:03 pm

Oh, and a big one: I'd make plans to attend one major convention in the NY/New England area. TLG presence here is kept alive by a few stalwarts, but a convention appearance with some visibility would work wonders, as well as allow people like Serleran and myself to show up and pimp TLG without having to fly halfway across the country.
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jman5000 · Post by **jman5000** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:10 pm

taking it online *should* be pretty simple... especially leveraging one of the existing frameworks.

problem with many of these suggestions (in my opinion) is that they are all the case stealing from Peter to pay Paul, meaning, taking market share away from existing games but not growing overall market share.

in a shrinking marketplace (which Roleplaying is), this may be a strategy that will defer your death, but does not mitigate against eventual death.

only existing role players will join an online game. I have a hard time believing that the 13 year old who just finished playing a 14 hour marathon session of WoW will suddenly say "I want to check out this role playing thinggy - I wonder what online tabletop systems there are?" (ok, gross oversimplification, but used for illustration purposes only).

lets face it, in order to prosper as a hobby, we need those 13 year olds who are currently playing WoW, it's a matter of figuring out how to steal a bit of their time, effort, motivation and latent creativity.

but back to the original point, C&C is simple enough that I'd imagine plugging in the core rules into an online system as a module or something should be quite easy.

Cheers,

J.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:34 pm

Fiffergrund wrote:
Oh, and a big one: I'd make plans to attend one major convention in the NY/New England area. TLG presence here is kept alive by a few stalwarts, but a convention appearance with some visibility would work wonders, as well as allow people like Serleran and myself to show up and pimp TLG without having to fly halfway across the country.

*points at Fiff's Troll Lord Title.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:36 pm

There's nothing stopping a NY get-together for C&C players. Who know, it could turn into a convention!

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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:55 pm

Fiffergrund wrote:
Oh, and a big one: I'd make plans to attend one major convention in the NY/New England area. TLG presence here is kept alive by a few stalwarts, but a convention appearance with some visibility would work wonders, as well as allow people like Serleran and myself to show up and pimp TLG without having to fly halfway across the country.

I think that would be *FANTASTIC* -- serious TLG presence at an existing convention (or even a new one) held somewhere in New York State would certainly get me to come down. It wouldn't be as far for me to get to either (from Montreal).

Moriarty the Red
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:41 pm

I may be looking for a Rochester-based con, but need to find out a lot more info. Or, maybe, somewhere a little further east, like Albany but I don't want it too far away.

As for taking it online, I've already asked if people, The Society, had the needed skills to do it (I don't), and am waiting a response. All I need is someone to say: yep I can do that, and I'll jump all over making it happen... but until then, I'm not going to spin wheels and pretend. The Society needs you more than you need it...

Oh, and when did my title become Dream Eater, or whatever? Cool, I suck.

Troll Lord · Post by **Troll Lord** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:51 pm

Interesting thread dudes! I don't have time to jump into this feet first like I would like to, but a few short comments:

1) We are very much in need of a convention out in the East. Anyone willing to step up and help organize Troll Con East I just drop me an email AFTER GENCON!

2) Castle Keeper's Guide

3) Monsters and Treasure II and Monsters and Treasure of Aihrde

4) For you role playing "how to" that is written by yours truly and will appear in the Basic.

5) The Adventure's Backpack (2008)

Steve
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:58 pm

You'd best be expecting an email, then, O Steve the Lord of Trolls.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:23 pm

Troll Con East... IT'S ON!

...........................................Omote

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Post by **Fiffergrund** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:39 pm

I'd suggest Albany, NY for TrollCon East.

Why?

1) Located on I-90. Easy to get to from New England and from NY/PA/NJ.

2) Within reasonable driving distance of NY City up the Thruway.

3) Within reasonable driving distance of Boston.

4) Within reasonable driving distance of Toronto and Montreal.

5) Lots of potential locations, with SUNY Albany and tons of hotels (state capital).

6) Great airport that is very easy to use/get to, and has direct flights from Toronto, Chicago, Philly, etc.

Syracuse and Rochester are great towns but a bit more of a haul if you're coming from, say, Boston or NYC.

Niagara Falls could be a dark horse candidate. It'd be easier to convince significant others to let you go/come with you with someplace like that. It'd be like Lake Geneva in that regard.

I'll see what Cons are already organized in the region, too. I know there are a few small ones. The biggest one I know of is ICON, on Long Island. I know several people involved in organizing that one, and they have their own game company as well. I'll see what I can find out.

I'd take point in organizing something but with an 11 month old and another baby only 2 months away, I'm going to be a little busy.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:22 pm

Would give me a reason to go there... heh. Have to check on some stuff, first, but I'll tell y'all now: if I have to put any money down for it to happen, it ain't happening. I've got a wedding I have to pay for next year (October 08) and a honeymoon after (likely to Toronto) so the me is a bit strapped for cash. There are a lot of castles that way... and I was thinking of a name for the con in relation to well, I think i don't have to say.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:28 pm

I'm not sure about Albany gamers? Is there a large community of RPGers in that region? I know of few, plus one of my good friends owns a place up that way ~ I could alway crash there and drive to the con. Plus, this would be a good way to visit upstate NY.
Serleran, hopefully all you would have to be is a con organizer - not the money man. Castles & Crusaders Con anyone?
......................................Omote

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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:29 pm

Troll Con East... I like it...

Easy to chant too!

TROLL CON EAST... TROLL CON EAST... hehehe.

I'll have to look at a map since I don't have a clue where Albany is in relation to anywhere else...

M
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angelius · Post by **angelius** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:20 pm

Two words! BOX SETS!

I know they are so expensive to produce but there's nothing like a nice row of box sets on your shelf... sniff i miss the old days.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:46 pm

Man, good call. Good call. But wait... TLG is releasing 2 box sets AND 2 folios in the very near future! Now waht about THAT old-school goodness.
............................................Omote

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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:47 pm

Fiff,

For on line play you should listen in on my, slimykuotoun's, or Skathros' SKYPE game. Mine is Monday nights, 6 to 9 PM PST, so 9 to midnight your time, Slimy's is Wed, I believe 8 to 11 your time, Skathros' is alternating Sundays, with the next being this upcoming Sunday, 6 to 9 your time. Almost as good as face to face.
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jman5000 · Post by **jman5000** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:54 pm

Omote wrote:
Man, good call. Good call. But wait... TLG is releasing 2 box sets AND 2 folios in the very near future! Now waht about THAT old-school goodness.
............................................Omote

FPQ

not a slam at all...

but I find it funny how this topic went from ideas on "modernizing" the stale and moribund world of fantasy role playing and thoughts on trying to attract new blood, to this quoted post

if nothing else, it does reinforce what kind of uphill battle there is and trying to market C&C to a fresh crowd.

Again, it's only an observation and in no way meant to detract from your comments or obvious excitement on upcoming products.

cheers,

J.

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:09 am

Oh, so in your opinion we have to abandon all traditions that C&C comes from to be a viable game?
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:10 am

Julian Grimm wrote:
Oh, so in your opinion we have to abandon all traditions that C&C comes from to be a viable game?

*chuckles* He said he's not slamming the game.

But this thread does emphasize the concept of C&C as an 'old idea in new packaging'.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:13 am

Heh, not going to get away from that, I don't think... especially with all the talk about conversion of this and that, and the incredible ease that C&C has for using X and Y and Z... plus, it builds on some 30 years of RPGs. No game is any new... it just looks it.

Been saying that C&C needs to get away from the "emulator" thing (one reason I do not want to see "everything from the SRD;" C&C must have its own definition) but I've yet to see, or think how, that can happen.... best way would be, in my opinion, to create different SIEGE games and to make entirely new things... sure some of it can be like older stuff, but in those cases, it had better go further, do more, offer what people couldn't get before...

Got to stay away from the "been done" thing, and honestly, books on "how to roleplay" and "class book of X" have been done.

jman5000 · Post by **jman5000** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:33 am

Oh, so in your opinion we have to abandon all traditions that C&C comes from to be a viable game?

nope, my thoughts are much more broad than just C&C. I think many traditions and paradigms need to be abandoned for Roleplaying to be a viable hobby for kids that are born after 1994

Got to stay away from the "been done" thing, and honestly, books on "how to roleplay" and "class book of X" have been done.

kind of like boxed sets...

3 'core' book sets...

'basic' sets (I'm a sophisticated, worldly, and full of piss and vim 13 year old, why would I want to play anything 'basic')

actually, taking that to it's logical conclusion Serl, you've just defined C&C at it's core. it's a "been done" thing - sure, a couple of bells and whistles, but it's been done 25 years ago

ok, before you start slamming me, remember, I am posting on the C&C forum and have been for a long time, so I must have some loyalty towards this game, and I'm not slamming it because I don't like it (and if you really look, I'm not slamming it at all), but I'm taking to task stale thinking in general.

remember, the most successful products are typically not brand new, never been seen before Inventions, yet rather better mouse traps. you think the Ipod was new when it came out? nope.

I want to see a better mouse trap, and see the industry thrive - because thats in my vested best interest.

Cheers,

J.

jman5000 · Post by **jman5000** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:42 am

Quote:
Been saying that C&C needs to get away from the "emulator" thing (one reason I do not want to see "everything from the SRD;" C&C must have its own definition) but I've yet to see, or think how, that can happen.

forgot to mention, I agree with this part 100%

was hoping that maybe all the smarter people than I around these parts would start thinking of the how, the why's and the what's

Cheers,

J.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:44 am

I never said C&C was brand-new. In fact, nothing about it is: its in one RPG or another, somewhere, somehow. Look at a game created 20+ years ago called The Arcanum. Look at how every save is tied to an attribute. That game is pretty damn slick, taking OAD&D (with which it was intended to supplement) one step than it had gone before... and its even got stuff similar to d20, and, imagine this, it even has XP for skills like a certain CZ book. The problem is the focusing on that. The "oh cause this did that we can just use this with that." Sure... but C&C can do a lot more. That's the point. That's what makes it different than what is currently available. The best way to show the flexibility is to get away from what everyone else is doing.... WotC releases books on classes every other week it seems, and before them, it was Mongoose and they are all still in print. Green Ronin and WotC have books on how to roleplaying (GR with the Advanced d20 stuff and WotC with DMG II and PHB II) which are still in print and available...

That's my point. Avoid the stuff that's already there, ready, and done. Do something else.

Why compete when you don't have to?

And, I would argue that the best selling ideas are always the original ones...if they were not, there would not be copies of it.

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:46 am

angelius wrote:
Two words! BOX SETS!

I know they are so expensive to produce but there's nothing like a nice row of box sets on your shelf... sniff i miss the old days.

OH YEAH!
[Hmm, seems I did a boxed set collectors thread awhile back. Lemme go find it.]
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jman5000 · Post by **jman5000** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:48 am

No game is any new... it just looks it.

doh, I did read that post too fast... This I disagree with. I think, again in the indy game crowd there is a plethora of new ideas, concepts, mechanics and game theory swirling around.. some of it is very exciting, some of it is crap, but it's all creative thinking and innovation...

however. I believe C&C should stay the way it is. it's awesome on so many different levels. I just HATE HATE HATE how it's been packaged and put together, and the target market emphasis on us old fogies who're about to keel over and kick the bucket.

ok, maybe the Hate part is too strong, because I found the game when I was specifically looking for someone somewhere running a red box basic game to join. However, I know of red box basic because I played it. 13 year olds haven't.

ok, now I'm officially beating a dead horse.

cheers,

J.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:52 am

jman5000 wrote:
however. I believe C&C should stay the way it is. it's awesome on so many different levels. I just HATE HATE HATE how it's been packaged and put together, and the target market emphasis on us old fogies who're about to keel over and kick the bucket.

Actually, the target emphasis is on new players. For without new players the hobby dies. ^_^
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:53 am

Quote:
I think, again in the indy game crowd there is a plethora of new ideas, concepts, mechanics and game theory swirling around.. some of it is very exciting, some of it is crap, but it's all creative thinking and innovation...

Heh, here, we'd better just agree that we disagree. I think with the more exposure one has to variant games the more similar they all become... so, I'm just jaded to the potential of "newness."

slimykuotoan · Post by **slimykuotoan** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:54 am

I'd probably be boxed out of the running of the company because of a few guys, who -between them- had...let's say, a controlling interest, and thought they could run the company better than I could.

I would be set up because I couldn't manage.

In 2008 nobody on the West Coast would probably deal with Troll Lords, so they'd start a corporation called "Lords of the Troll".

It would take a long time and a lot of hard work to get to be recognized - as someone who was for real and not just a civilian- shall we say, in entertainment. Eventually, though, I would get a cartoon show going (on CBS) and I'd have a number of other projects in the works...

While I would've been out there though, I -at this point- probably would hear that the company was in severe financial difficulties, and that one of the guys -the one I probably would've partnered with- would be shopping it on the street in New York.

And I'd most likely come back and discover a number of gross mismanagements in all areas of the company.

ie. the bank would be foreclosing, and we'd be a million and a half in debt. So we'd eventually get that straightened out, so I'd invariably get one of my partners kicked out of office. (perhaps Davis Chenault) who'd be removed as a contributer, etc.). Then my partners, in retribution for that, would sell their shares to someone else. (Serleren)

I'd try to block this in court, but in the ensuing legal struggle, the judge would rule against me. I'd lose control of the company, and it would be then I'd just decided to sell out, etc.

It'd be pretty grim overall.