So I Finally bought The Wilderlands...

[Julian Grimm]

...And am totally blown away by this setting. This was what I was wanting. Fully malable with the ability to insert what I want and not have to change anything especially canon and meta-plot. I even have control over the gods! ( I know the Players guide deals with them but I don't know if I'll get it yet)

All I have to say is that I know why many have been entranced by it.
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[gideon_thorne]

Glad you could find one. They are getting kinda scarce.
I've got that and Rappan Athuk Reloaded plus a few other odds and ends. Might make a nice 'demo' campaign for C&C some day.

My own campaign tends to be a bit over the top for anyone but political intrigue types.
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Peter Bradley

[Omote]

'Tis good stuff. Treat her good, and she'll treat you good.
Crunch... what crunch?

..........................................Omote

FPQ
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[SavageRobby]

I got the boxed set first, and then got the PG. Its worth it - not for the Gods, but for general data about races, more history information (which can be useful) and other basic world info - pretty much all fluff (woot).

The setting is great though. Pretty much supports anything and any kind of campaign you'd want. I'm looking forward to a heavy dungeon crawl campaign with some serious overland travel.

[serleran]

Wilderlands is great. Wish there'd be a re-release of The City-State (either of them) but I'll wait and see if someone *cough - James* will do that.

[Omote]

For some reason, the Wilderlands really brings out the "overland travel" aspect to a campaign. I think this type of game is sorely underused by most CKs and DMs. There is a lot of potential in the perils and wonders of overland exploration, and not just the stuff in dungeons (although that's good too).
...............................................Omote

FPQ
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Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[DangerDwarf]

serleran wrote:
Wish there'd be a re-release of The City-State (either of them)

It's still pretty easy to find.

But yeah, all of the NG Wilderlands stuff is completely and seriously badass.

[Treebore]

CSIO and the PG are both available via this site:
http://www.stiggybaby.com/Merchant2/mer ... _Count=156
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[Jyrdan Fairblade]

I only have the Players Guide, but consider that more than enough to eventually run a Wilderlands campaign.

It's a crackling setting - it really harkens back to the time when JG was first spawned, when fantasy wore a different face.

[serleran]

Yeah, well, I meant a re-release of CSIO without d20.

[Omote]

Regardless of d20 content, News CSIO is still pretty damn good, and especially the aforementioned Wilderlands box set. The Player's Guide is awesome too. Me likey.

..........................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[serleran]

True. I just want a new, non-d20 CSIO. Probably why I went and bought the amazing Mayfair version *hack hack* I do like the NG CSIO...

[Zudrak]

A store near me (1/2 hour away or so) carries a bunch of Wilderlands. I am a Greyhawker myself, but something about the setting has me intrigued. Of course, I am limited in how much gaming I can do (none, at the moment!), but hope that as my son grows up it will change so that he and I will game a lot (when his homework is done, of course!).

Sorry, I rambled there. Anyhoo, what I mean is I still love READING gaming material and may buy the materials just for that.
_________________
AD&D, Amish Dungeons & Dragons.

"Galstaff, ye are in a cornfield, when a moustachioed man approaches. What say ye?"

"I shun him."

-----

"Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books."

-- E. Gary Gygax

[Julian Grimm]

I'd post more but I'm still reading and drooling.
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[Zudrak]

Julian Grimm wrote:
I'd post more but I'm still reading and drooling.

So, 5 out of 5, eh?
_________________
AD&D, Amish Dungeons & Dragons.

"Galstaff, ye are in a cornfield, when a moustachioed man approaches. What say ye?"

"I shun him."

-----

"Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books."

-- E. Gary Gygax

[Treebore]

Zudrak wrote:
So, 5 out of 5, eh?

I believe I did an ENWorld review on this as Grimaryl Atyar. If I did I am pretty sure I gave it a 5 out of 5. I know I did a CSIO review as G. A. and I gave that a 4 out of 5 or 5 out of 5.

Guess I should go look up my reviews and refresh my memory. Besides, I've been needing to repost them as Treebore anyhow.
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[Treebore]

Apparently I only did a review of CSIO, or my Grimaryl reviews got messed up by the "Great ENWorld Boared Meltdown". Either way, here is a copy/paste of my CSIO review:

City-State of the Invincible Overlord

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note: This is NOT a boxed set. It ended up being released as a hardcover. There is to be a boxed set for the Wilderlands setting.

City State of the Invincible Overlord is the D20 conversion of the (in)famous Judges Guild product. The D20 conversion editing was done by Scott Greene, of Tome of Horrors I and II fame. The book has Black and White illustrations with several pages of gridded greyscale maps on high gloss paper stock. It has 382 pages of material, including indexes that help you find Streets and locations. There is an NPC index created by a fan available as a download at the Judges Guild website. There is also a fantastic "sister" city done by another fan set in the Wilderlands area called Altanis. That city, like CSIO (City State of the Invincible Overlord), are easily portable into any campaign. The hardest thing a DM needs to do to allow this is to forget the history provided and write their own.

This book is the best write-up I have seen since the boxed set for the City of Waterdeep. It has everything.

Chapter 1 gives an overview of the various organizations within the city as well as the game statistics for the city itself, which has an average population of 80,000. It is a big city but only a 1/3 the population of Waterdeep. Not only does it give an overview, but you also get a sense of each organizations overall personality. On page five you also get a table breaking down military unit sizes with a "Regular Army title" and a "Noble Army title".

Chapter 2 introduces new rules ideas, such as "social factor", which is a ranking of social status and giving a hierarchy and how they rate/rank against each other. This is because there isn't only one social class, so each societal part of the city gets their own social level ranking and then a table showing how these social ranks measure up to the other social ranks. Three examples are the Nobles, the guilds, and the Merchants. There are six social classifications in all. This chapter also introduces their version of the skills Gambling, Interrogation, and Torture, along with helpful tables listing DC's and DC modifiers.

If you incorporate the slavery aspect of this city (it is ruled by a L/E King), there is a very good chart on page 14 that helps a DM determine the going price of a slave, based on age, skills, attributes, etc...

There are also two PrC's introduced in this chapter. A 5 level Agent of the Black Lotus PrC and a 10 level Beggar class. Personally, I like them both, they are great for adding story flavor to this city and I have several plans in how to utilize them as NPC's. I do not foresee any players being excited to play one. They are not nearly powerful enough. There is also a neat little Beggar physical/mental deformity table on the last page of the chapter.

Chapter 3 is probably my favorite chapter in the whole book. It is the Crime and Punishment Chapter. There are 18 tables in this chapter to help the DM determine the severity of a crime, the punishment of a crime, the attitude of the Judge, how the attitude of the judge effects their ruling, and even how the weather will effect the judges mood and therefore the sentence. It also has tables detailing the punishments, including methods of torture and how much they will hurt as well as how survivable they are. It also has tables to determine Bribery amounts and results. All in all, a very wonderful chapter that I am very eager to use in my game.

Chapter 4 contains the City Encounters charts/tables. For example, the City Folk Encounter Table breaks encounters down by Hierarchy versus their Social Level and also gives you a class level range and how much money they are carrying on their person. They also have encounter tables for specific City Quarters, an Unusual Encounters table which are monsters you could run into, a special encounters table which details events such as getting spit upon to running into a lamplighter. If you run into a town crier there are sub-tables telling what the town crier is saying, from a call to arms to the birth of a prince. There are even a set of tables to help the DM/Judge determine the reason/motivations behind encounters. There are also a couple of tables that illustrate the cosmopolitan nature of this city. There are at least 21 races a person can expect to run into, several of which are unique to the Wilderlands, so DM replacements may be necessary.

Chapter 5 is a very short chapter that gives you statistics for common items such as chests and doors in the CSIO. It also gives brief explanations of how the City stays peaceful and other important information about presenting the street life of the city.

Chapter 6 is another short chapter made up entirely of tables for rolling random rumors and legends of the CSIO.

Chapter 7 is a meaty chapter giving you street by street breakdowns of possible encounters.

Chapter 8 is another impressive chapter. It starts off giving the DM/Judge 12 numbered locations to make up the details of for themselves. It then goes on to detail 339 additional locations for the DM to use. Locations such as temples, 4 or 5 of which are given far greater detail in later chapters, numerous Inns and Taverns, Candle Makers, a Phrenologist, Carpenters, Glassblowers, a Bear Trainer, Saddleshops, Sail Maker, Racketeer, a Pet Shop, etc.... All including basic NPC info. This is where that NPC download I have mentioned comes in handy. This chapter runs from page 47 to page 134.

Chapter 9 is the first chapter detailing what is called the Wraith Overlord, Beneath the City State. This goes into the sewer/underground areas of the city, the history, some story ideas, and other information.

Chapter 10 details the City Jail. It also gives the history of a number of the individuals who are imprisoned here. It also details the various torture chambers and the Jails connection to the sewers/undercity areas, called The Pit. Which is where they throw the insane.

Chapters 11-13 details temples, their priests, their treasures, there lay-outs, and where they are connected through the sewers. Lots of good adventure seeds in these chapters. Of course there have been tons of adventure ideas throughout the whole book!

Chapter 14 details the Thieves Guild. Nuff' said.

Chapter 15 covers what is called the Despot Ruins. The ruins are the areas where two ancient fortresses once stood. Not terribly detailed, but I consider that a good thing, since I have several old modules and Dungeon adventures I can use to add the detail I want.

Chapter 16 covers another temple. The temple of the Spider-god. No, this isn't a rip off of a certain abyssal spider demoness. This temple is definitely about spiders. Lots of them, some of them very deadly to low level characters (CR3 spiders).

Chapter 17 covers another very interesting area. However, I am not going to provide any details of it here. It is best to make it as hard as possible for players to know anything about this.

Chapter 18 covers something called the Watchtower. It is a place that could easily become a location repeatedly visited by PC's. That's all I'll say about this place as well.

Chapter 19 gives detail about the Patrician Theater's lower levels. The upper level was detailed at location 158 in Chapter 8. More secret stuff I don't want to tip off players to.

Chapter 20 details the School of Ancient Knowledge. Again the above ground portion was detailed in Chapter 8. This school caters to anyone who is seeking any kind of knowledge.

Appendix 1 gives details of the most important NPC's in the city, namely the Invincible Overlord himself, the Grand Vizier, and a certain NPC with many tentacles hanging where his mouth would be.

Appendix 2 details magic items introduced in this book.

Appendix 3 is the monsters, a fair number of which are/were created within the walls of CSIO. Two templates are here, one is the skeletal thief/warrior template, the other is for creating Wraith Spiders.

So what is my overall opinion of this book? Awesome!! I loved reading this. I am psyched about all of the story ideas this book gave me. I am actually eager to sit down and bring this city to life. I am glad this city is so campaign portable because my current campaign is based in Erde. My last campaign was based in the Wilderlands. So I still get to unleash the wonders of this city in my Erde campaign! Or I could use it in Greyhawk, or even Ravenloft, since there are a fair number of undead in this city, and I could easily make the Overlord a Darkpower of Ravenloft.

Plus this comes with a rich, old, campaign world known as the Wilderlands! This book, combined with the Players Guide to the Wilderlands, the boxed set coming out in a few months, plus with the wonderful fan downloads at judgeguild.net, make for a very rich and basic campaign world, with at least 4 more support products coming out! Plus the Caverns of Thracia are already out in stores now.

This is just an awesome product! Any DM who wants good cities to put in their campaign world needs to get this book. It is hardbound with nice black and white illustrations throughout, an excellent NPC spreadsheet at Judgesguild.net, plus well written locations that just gets a DMs creative ideas bursting while reading them.

Websites you can go to for fan downloads and up coming product releases: http://www.judgesguild.net or http://www.necromancergames.com.
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[Treebore]

Here is my Players Guide Review:

This $23.95 softbound book of 128 pages (including OGL page) is a new (old) world setting. It is old because it is part of the first campaign world ever created for role playing games way back when. The only big compliant that I have about this product is that it does not have a Table of Contents.

Chapter 1, after the 2 page introduction, which you should also read, is the chapter covering the history of the WL (Wilder Lands). It covers the calendar system as well as the overall histories. they also give you names of the five day week and the names of the 19 months of the 365/366 day year. It also gives you a table (on page 6) telling you the average temperature of each month and the name of the major festival of that given month. The rest of it is reasonable in depth history of the world that takes up to page 15 of the book. The nicest thing i liked about this chapter is that it broke down history into a variety of DC's for your history buff to know anything about a specific period of history.

On page 16 the Characters chapter begins. There is a lot of info in this chapter. This is where most of the campaign specific game mechanics occurs, assuming you decide to use them. Essentially, this chapter breaks down the human races by region, giving them stat bonuses and minuses based on how thier culture would effect them. The are also several non-human races, but they are in the last chapter on monsters. They also give the same treatment to the other "standard" races of a D&D game, such as the varieties of Dwarves, Elves, gnomes, etc... On page 26 they give you an alternative xp system they suggest using if you want to slow down character advancement, which is something that appealed to me.

On page 28 the Character chapter gets into chracter classes in the WL that are not standard classes of D&D. They have the Alchemist, Amazon Warrior (females only), Sage, and Witch. They seem to be well balanced within the context of WL, if you do not use the WL, they will probably be over powered. This is because the checks to the powers of these classes, namely the Amazon Warrior, is the cultural limitations and barriers such a character would have to face. This also is the case with several of the human races earlier in the chapter. So do not judge the power of the classes or races solely on their specific write-ups. You need to look at how thier power is countered by the social stigmas they would face if the campaign is used in its entirety. They also have some nicely explained skills, such as poisonmaking and knowledge skill checks on pages 39-41. They also have a number of feats the reminded me of how the Forgotten Realms were done. But don't hold that in favor or against this book. Just check them out and see how they fit your style.

On page 45 there are two handy tables showing how bonus languages are available by region as well as where you would run into which of the various spoken languages and their respective alphabets.

On page 48 the Map Overview chapter begins. This is a short chapter that covers the 18 regions in a very brief manor. There is plenty of info to let you start a game in any of the regions though. The real reason this chapter is so short is because of an 18 map boxed set that should be coming out in the next 5 or 6 months. They don't want to repeat any material between the two products. I know this from visiting their (JG and Necromancer) websites. There are also some very nice downloads available on the JG website that supports this campaign setting. The map in the back of this book is available as a poster on Necromancer's website under one of their product links, I don't remember the exact name of the link, sorry.

The next chapter begins on Page 54. This chapter covers the main cities of the setting in some detail. They even have a Technology Level rating table on Page 55. It lists the city name, population, tech lvl, racial composition, overall alignment, resources, Allies, enemies, etc... A very useful chpater if you do end up using this setting, or you can use it to flesh out cities in your own campaign worlds. This chapter runs to page 65.

On page 66 the Geographic Features chapter begins. It gives you exactly what chapter title tells you. The biggest thing i got from this chapter was a couple hundred adventure ideas. Read it.

On page 82 you get a Traveler's Guide to The City State. There is a map of the City State of the Invincible Overlord on page 84. The chapter revolves around giving location descriptions within this city, much like other city supplements. It is a lite going over. Probably due to their future release based on this city. It is also a good read for ideas and campaign flavor.

On Page 90 is the chapter on Gods and Deities of The Wilderlands. I really liked their discussion about deities on pages 91-92. They even discuss the cosmology of the gods in the WL. Basically, you can have as many or as few deities you want in this world. As written they have 1000's of deities ranging from gods of specific locations or natural events up to Greater Gods. This chapter really brought home to me the desire of this books authors to take what they have written in this book and make it your own.

The last chapter of this book is on monsters and races unique, more or less, to the WL's. There are at least 22 monsters in this chapter, including templates. There is the winged ape, the hawk people, the dragon-headed ogres, and many others.

My overall feeling for this book is that I am a kid locked in a candy shop. This book is the first I have read in a long time that awakened the excitement I felt when i first started playing this game of D&D about 20 years ago. That alone was worth the price of this book. This book is full of all kinds of alternative ideas on human races, monster races, plus elves, dwarves, gnomes, etc. There are similiarities to a lot of other product ideas, however, they come together very well to make the world of WL's feel unique, vivid, and just full of a lot of creative energy. Read this book from cover to cover. I hope you become infected with the same bug I have. Also check out the websites. I think this book, and the future products, are well worth buying.

I give this book a 4.5. Not a 5.0 because it is missing a Table of Contents and an Index, both of which I like my sourcebooks to have. Otherwise this book is everything I want in an introduction to a new camapign world. Plus it gave me countless ideas and loads of inspiration. Excellent job Judges Guild and Necromancer games!
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[Julian Grimm]

Quote:
So, 5 out of 5, eh?

I'll sya it like this. One of my biggest turning points in gaming came when I discovered the FR Graybox. It revamped my campaign and was a favored setting for many years.

The Wilderlnds blows the intial awe I had with FR out of the water!
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[Zudrak]

Julian Grimm wrote:
I'll sya it like this. One of my biggest turning points in gaming came when I discovered the FR Graybox. It revamped my campaign and was a favored setting for many years.

The Wilderlnds blows the intial awe I had with FR out of the water!

I see. We'll call it 7 out of 5. Thanks, Julian.

Treebore, thanks for re-posting your reviews. Much appreciated! I'll add that to my b-day/Christmas list and Amazon wishlist.

Happy gaming,

Zudrak
_________________
AD&D, Amish Dungeons & Dragons.

"Galstaff, ye are in a cornfield, when a moustachioed man approaches. What say ye?"

"I shun him."

-----

"Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books."

-- E. Gary Gygax

[Mike Frank]

Omote wrote:
For some reason, the Wilderlands really brings out the "overland travel" aspect to a campaign. I think this type of game is sorely underused by most CKs and DMs. There is a lot of potential in the perils and wonders of overland exploration, and not just the stuff in dungeons (although that's good too).
...............................................Omote

FPQ

The random ruins and relics tables are absolutely fantastic. Those tables alone go a LONG way in justifying the cost of the boxed set.

BTW, my ToEE campaign is set in the Wilderlands a few hundred miles north and west of the City-State.

[Julian Grimm]

The price was what kept me away for awhile. But, I finally came around and was happy with the purchase. Consider the cost of products you buy and may not ever use vs. the cost of a set you will use from here to eternity.

BTW, I had my choice of this or the Goodman Games DCC world.
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[Treebore]

Julian Grimm wrote:
The price was what kept me away for awhile. But, I finally came around and was happy with the purchase. Consider the cost of products you buy and may not ever use vs. the cost of a set you will use from here to eternity.

BTW, I had my choice of this or the Goodman Games DCC world.

Of those two I much prefer WL, but DCC 35 is pretty good as well. Its perfect if you like the Goodman DCC's and would like a world designed to fit all of the DCC's in it. Even the ones published since DCC 35. Much like they used to do with GH and its modules, but better.

So my opinion is you can't go wrong with either one. However, Wilderlands is the one I own 3 copies of.
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[Julian Grimm]

Well the bug has bit me. Heh, I find it funny that the Wilderlands has solved my Greyhaw vs. Airdhe indecision. In fact, I had some birthday money and ordered City State of the Invicible Overlord and snagged a copy of Thieves fortress of Badabaskor(sp?) off Ebay. I broke my other JG stuff out too to see how to fit it all together.

Now some questions:

1) Is the Players Guide worth getting or is it a bunch of D20 mess?

2) How would you fit the old portals series into the Wilderlands? Full planes or Demi-planes?

3) Are the few newer JG modules out there easily convertable or is there a bunch of D20 to work around.

I don't want to take anything away from the other settings I like but this is the ones that really says "classic gaming" to me and the one I feel comfortable setting a campagn in.
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[Treebore]

My review of the Players Guide is up above, as well as my CSIO review.
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[jamesmishler]

Julian Grimm wrote:
1) Is the Players Guide worth getting or is it a bunch of D20 mess?

It has its uses for a Castles & Crusades game; there is much that can be adapted. I will be including C&C versions of the classes (Alchemist, Amazon, Sage, and Witch) and the various races and monsters in Wilderlands of High Adventure products, but those will be hit or miss; a stand-alone class book will not be done after all, as there's not demand for it.

Quote:
2) How would you fit the old portals series into the Wilderlands? Full planes or Demi-planes?

Using the Wilderlands cosmology they are simply other planets in the vast universe, perhaps in the galaxy to which the world of the Wilderlands belongs, perhaps in some far-flung other galaxy, or even in some other time/space of the universe. All of them were fantasy-science based. The concept of the planes as in D&D does not obtain in the Wilderlands... unless you want it to. In the core setting, the "planes" as they are are much more limited in scope. Even most of the gods are based on the Prime rather than elsewhere...

Quote:
3) Are the few newer JG modules out there easily convertable or is there a bunch of D20 to work around.

There's a ton of d20 stuff, but as with all conversions to C&C, it's just a matter of picking the equivalent beast out of the M&T, or eyeballing it. Remember, all the stats and how they work are now in YOUR control, not tied to some arcane and overwieldy rules canon...

Quote:
I don't want to take anything away from the other settings I like but this is the ones that really says "classic gaming" to me and the one I feel comfortable setting a campagn in.

Well, if you do want to take something away from the other settings, you can do so, and drop it right in the Wilderlands. Have fun, and make it all your own!
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James Mishler

Main Man, Adventure Games Publishing
jamesagp1@gmail.com
http://adventuregamespublishing.blogspot.com/
http://jamesmishler.blogspot.com

[Julian Grimm]

Treebore wrote:
My review of the Players Guide is up above, as well as my CSIO review.

D'OH! I even read them and forgot they were there...
*Whispering to self*

Blame the heat...blame the heat...blame the heat
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[Julian Grimm]

jamesmishler wrote:
It has its uses for a Castles & Crusades game; there is much that can be adapted. I will be including C&C versions of the classes (Alchemist, Amazon, Sage, and Witch) and the various races and monsters in Wilderlands of High Adventure products, but those will be hit or miss; a stand-alone class book will not be done after all, as there's not demand for it.

Looking forward to it.

Quote:
2) How would you fit the old portals series into the Wilderlands? Full planes or Demi-planes?

Using the Wilderlands cosmology they are simply other planets in the vast universe, perhaps in the galaxy to which the world of the Wilderlands belongs, perhaps in some far-flung other galaxy, or even in some other time/space of the universe. All of them were fantasy-science based. The concept of the planes as in D&D does not obtain in the Wilderlands... unless you want it to. In the core setting, the "planes" as they are are much more limited in scope. Even most of the gods are based on the Prime rather than elsewhere...[/quote]

I can see I have some concepts to divorce myself from. That's not a bad thing as alot of it was getting old hat and worn. I like the freshness of this.

Quote:
3) Are the few newer JG modules out there easily convertable or is there a bunch of D20 to work around.

There's a ton of d20 stuff, but as with all conversions to C&C, it's just a matter of picking the equivalent beast out of the M&T, or eyeballing it. Remember, all the stats and how they work are now in YOUR control, not tied to some arcane and overwieldy rules canon...[/quote]

Gotcha!

Quote:
I don't want to take anything away from the other settings I like but this is the ones that really says "classic gaming" to me and the one I feel comfortable setting a campagn in.

Well, if you do want to take something away from the other settings, you can do so, and drop it right in the Wilderlands. Have fun, and make it all your own![/quote]

I plan on it.
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[Jyrdan Fairblade]

What hurts?

Seeing a pristine copy of Necro's Wilderlands Boxed Set at Half-Price Books, for, well, half-price, and still not being able to fit it in the budget.

If I hadn't placed that special order at the FLGS for some TLG and Kenzer Products earlier...

[Treebore]

Ouch! Your not going to GenCon either? If you are, there was a dealer next to White Wolf last years selling WL boxed sets for $25.00.
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