Dungeons & Dragons Insider

Alto Banor · Post by **Alto Banor** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:43 am

I am hopeful that I can use D&D Insider for a C&C campaign! I'm 43 and have played RPG's for 27 years but, I'm also a programmer and have been for 24 years!

It would be nice to use those online tools to enhance play. I have a former player that moved to Tampa 17 years ago. We go to cons and visit each other and game when we can. He is big into Teamspeak and after thinking about it, I setup a Live Messenger account and hooked in my Xbox 360 web cam and BOOM! I have a new/old player who joins us on Friday nights every other week and we web cam him in. We talk over Teamspeak and use the web cam to show him the visual aspects of the game.

If I can use the Dark Empire's online tools, that could easily increase our gaming sessions to more than every other week.
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SoulCatcher78 · Post by **SoulCatcher78** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:01 am

Alto Banor wrote:
If I can use the Dark Empire's online tools, that could easily increase our gaming sessions to more than every other week.

If the only advantage you might have to signing up would be the mapping features (which you have to spend additional time setting up I think (unless your using something they provide, i.e. from Dungeon mag)), where would be the added value of the DDI? From your post you seem to be getting along just fine using TeamSpeak (which I've used and it's near perfect sound quality) and a webcam, do you mind if I ask why the change?

(note: this is not a flame as I've been eyeballing their DDI for the magazine stuff and the tools are just an extra doodad that I might attempt to use eventually).

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:17 am

I don't see the use of the PC helping at all. It seems to require even more time to set up, and then, there's the whole "service unavailable."

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:21 am

Its very cool that your able to game with an old gaming buddy like that!

I don't think I am going to be tempted into the DI, but it does look good for those who do get sucked in.
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Alto Banor · Post by **Alto Banor** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:10 am

Hey SoulCatcher78, no I don't mind you asking. I'm a multimedia developer which is a fancy word for a programmer with some graphical design skills. I already use the computer to keep characters stats, CK game aids, and all around information retrieval. For the group that's with me, its not a small leap from setting up the maps and miniatures or setting up the maps and miniatures on the computer. The drawback now is that there are few and far between any mapping program that I like to use and none of them allow for 3D like view. (At least none that is easily adapted.) I saw the demo of the online game mapper and it looked very slick. Think of any D&D supplimental material that you use for C&C. You don't shun that material just because it's D&D, right? I'll use anything that will enhance the game for the players? We used Mega Blocks Dragons for a huge Dragon battle. Looked a little dorkey but, it was better than nothing or a flat picture.

A couple of things mentioned are valid points. How much is it going to cost? Do I have to be connected to the Web? Is there rules tied into the mapper? (I doubt that.) Will I have to purchase any manuals to get involved in it?

I have no doubts that the 4E rules themselves will not entice me to purchase to switch over to that style of RPG.
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Dyne · Post by **Dyne** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:52 am

It's gonna be $10 a month. Since I believe there are programs out there that accomplish the same thing for less money, I'd probably go with something else. And from what I've seen of Magic: The Gather Online, I wouldn't put much hope in anything digital that WotC releases.

The way I would do online games, we would use either message boards or IM. Occasionally drawing up some simple maps in Paint, putting them up on Photobucket, and having people point out where their character is.

Barrataria · Post by **Barrataria** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:45 pm

Dyne wrote:
It's gonna be $10 a month. Since I believe there are programs out there that accomplish the same thing for less money, I'd probably go with something else. And from what I've seen of Magic: The Gather Online, I wouldn't put much hope in anything digital that WotC releases.

The way I would do online games, we would use either message boards or IM. Occasionally drawing up some simple maps in Paint, putting them up on Photobucket, and having people point out where their character is.

I think it would be very unusual of the company to actively facilitate use of their doohickey by other companies. I think it will be fairly well tied to their rulesets and toy lines... remember the original Core Rules software, before the expansion? If you wanted to do ANYTHING not specifically in the PHB or DMG or MM you were stuck.

BB

SoulCatcher78 · Post by **SoulCatcher78** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:08 pm

The one thing that got me all excited about the mapping program was showing that the lightsource was going to be a factor (for cutting off vision or a fog-of-war effect). Having it all in one program will make a difference if you are hosting a game with participants all over the place, however I think that each person needing to have an account will leave some folks out of the loop. That being the case, there's going to be a lot of new groups being formed for those who do have an account. If we break that down further by changing the game system and then trying to find players, it might not be a useful tool unless it's being used in the manner that the OP presents (specific to adding an individual to an existing group). Just my opinion.

I think that made sense.

Alto Banor · Post by **Alto Banor** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:57 pm

If it's $10 per player per month, that's would cost my group $840 per year to play D&D (as far as using the D&D insider). That part of the D&D will be free within a year!

There are very few RPG'ers who will be willing to continually shellout that kind of dough. Every player would still have to minimumlly shell out $45.00 for the PHB, that's $315 for my group. The DM would have to shell out another $100 ($50 ea. for DMG & MM). We are at $1250.

As greedy as WOTC is, I would hope they wouldn't be that stupid.

Battlegrounds RPG Edition is the only program that could even come close to to their online mapper.

If any of you know of another 3D interactive dungeon mapper, please let me know.

Alto
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Dyne · Post by **Dyne** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:46 pm

Alto Banor wrote:
Every player would still have to minimumlly shell out $45.00 for the PHB, that's $315 for my group. The DM would have to shell out another $100 ($50 ea. for DMG & MM).

Where'd you get that info? I didn't realize the 4e rulebooks would be that expensive, but considering it's WotC, no big surprise really.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:30 pm

I like running on line games via SKYPE and using links to maps on my website.

Yeah, if WOTC chargess players to play, or me more than $10.00 for running games, they can forget I exist. Not that they have noticed me anyways.

Then again, a lot of publishers did recognize me when I told them my online ID at GenCon last year. At least a half dozen, which is a half dozen more than I would have ever expected. Which dousn't count TLG or Necromancer. Those guys I expected to know me.
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Alto Banor · Post by **Alto Banor** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:18 pm

Dyne wrote:
Where'd you get that info? I didn't realize the 4e rulebooks would be that expensive, but considering it's WotC, no big surprise really.

Okay... I exaggerated! I would be shocked if it was less than $39.95 for the PHB.
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Visit Altobanor.com, Home of the Castle Keeper Tool

There's a fine line between being on the leading edge and being in the lunatic fringe

-- Frank Armstrong

Fizz · Post by **Fizz** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:44 pm

You should check out Fantasy Grounds. It already does most of what WotC is advertising.

It's entirely modular in it's ruleset. That is, you can plug in whatever ruleset you want (3E, 2nd Ed, etc) or you can program your own.

And unlike WotC, no monthly fee.

-Fizz

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:12 am

Interactive dungeon

Been around a while.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:32 am

serleran wrote:
Interactive dungeon

Been around a while.

Nice! Simple, nice, does the frikkin job!!
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

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Celestian · Post by **Celestian** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:30 am

serleran wrote:
Interactive dungeon

Been around a while.

Doesn't work "online" so your buddies can see it far as I know.

Now, Klooge does. You can use your existing map images and it has a "fog of war" that DM controls. It also has icons you can place for mobs and pcs. You can even let the pcs move their own.

Has a lot more features in it but those are the biggest. I've not used it in a while but it's rather inexpensive when compared to 10 bucks a pop for each player every month. It's not 3d pcs or maps but it does work and with TeamSpeak or Vent it's pretty easy.

Can get it from www kloogeinc com.

[I'd post the address properly but these forums won't let me, 5 posts for URL linking???]

I am still hoping the DI version is cheap and doesn't require all my players to pay per month... I wanted to check it out at least once but if all my players gotta pay well, forget that. We got MMO bills already.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:27 am

Hey Celestian! Good to see you over here!

They have the 5 post limit to prevent advertisers from linking URLs. Seems to have been pretty effective too.
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Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

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RakintheBlue · Post by **RakintheBlue** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:40 pm

Haven't used it, but this looks like what wotc pretty much copied, give or take.

I'm not one to drool over graphics so this would be too much for me to purchase but some might be interested.

Also no monthly fees only one time buy.

Also also, it's already simplified enough to be able to use with any system (so they say)
http://www.battlegroundsgames.com/index.html

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:39 pm

RakintheBlue wrote:
Haven't used it, but this looks like what wotc pretty much copied, give or take.

I'm not one to drool over graphics so this would be too much for me to purchase but some might be interested.

Also no monthly fees only one time buy.

Also also, it's already simplified enough to be able to use with any system (so they say)
http://www.battlegroundsgames.com/index.html

Yeah, if money wasn't so tight right now I would buy the GM Client and the 5 Player pack for $116.00. Hopefully things will straighten out for me soon.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

Celestian · Post by **Celestian** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:21 pm

RakintheBlue wrote:
Haven't used it, but this looks like what wotc pretty much copied, give or take.

I'm not one to drool over graphics so this would be too much for me to purchase but some might be interested.

Also no monthly fees only one time buy.

Also also, it's already simplified enough to be able to use with any system (so they say)

I'm curious do you have to create those maps? One thing that klooge does is allows you to use a existing image... so for example if you have the map of Temple of Elemental Evil, level 1 you could just use that imagine. Overlay the grid and sort out the scale...

Those maps look good but I'd rather not have to make them if I already have them personally.

Other than that though it looks like Klooge ... though klooge seems to be more feature rich. You can have multiple rule sets also (AD&D 1e, 2e, 3e, 3.5e are the few I know exist and there are more).

Not sure what Battleground is written in but Klooge is Java so will run on anything that runs java... I've used it on a pc, mac and linux.

Still, 3d maps would be cool! The demo they showed at GenCon got me drooling.

Celestian · Post by **Celestian** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:25 pm

Treebore wrote:
Hey Celestian! Good to see you over here!

They have the 5 post limit to prevent advertisers from linking URLs. Seems to have been pretty effective too.

Glad I found the place. I'd been poking around the old TLG forums for a while and began to wonder why there hadn't been anything posted in ages.

Had me worried 4e blew up TLG!

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:46 pm

Quote:
Doesn't work "online" so your buddies can see it far as I know.

Don't know either... I just thought it was neat.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:04 pm

It just occurred to me that my FatDragon products might work with these online map sites. They are about as easy as laying out tiles on your table, and just kind of fun to play around with.

I'll have to see if I can figure out how to do it.

See if my FatDragon Pal can help out with that. Plus give him a new angle on marketing his stuff.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

Emryys · Post by **Emryys** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:54 am

RPTools (Maptool) does it all for free...
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:11 am

Emryys wrote:
RPTools (Maptool) does it all for free...

I can't upload my FATDragon tiles, or other tiles, to the program because of the file size is apparently much bigger than what is allowed on MapTool.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

Emryys · Post by **Emryys** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:45 am

Treebore wrote:
I can't upload my FATDragon tiles, or other tiles, to the program because of the file size is apparently much bigger than what is allowed on MapTool.

That seems odd...
1. What file size is the tile?

2. what version of MT are you using?
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heruca · Post by **heruca** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:57 pm

Treebore wrote:
Yeah, if money wasn't so tight right now I would buy the GM Client and the 5 Player pack for $116.00.

Actually, that would only cost $96.95.

But my real point is that the GM really shouldn't have to foot the bill for all his/her players. The discounted 5-pack is offered more so that a group can pool its resources together to qualify for a discount. That said, many GMs do end up footing the bill for everyone, but I don't think that's very fair.

heruca · Post by **heruca** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:10 pm

Celestian wrote:
I'm curious do you have to create those maps? One thing that klooge does is allows you to use a existing image... so for example if you have the map of Temple of Elemental Evil, level 1 you could just use that imagine. Overlay the grid and sort out the scale...

Those maps look good but I'd rather not have to make them if I already have them personally.

As with Kloogewerks (and most other virtual tabletop programs), Battlegrounds allows you to use any image as a map. So you can either make the maps yourself, download them from somewhere, or scan them in from a module, magazine, or even something you drew on graph paper. However, it's better if you can get high resolution images to work with, so that the map won't pixelate when you zoom in.

Some people like to scan in printed dungeon tiles and use them as component pieces to make elaborate layouts that look great without requiring a lot of effort.

Celestian wrote:
Not sure what Battleground is written in but Klooge is Java so will run on anything that runs java... I've used it on a pc, mac and linux.

Battlegrounds is created in Macromedia Director (now Adobe Director). It runs on Windows or Mac OS X. It can also run in Linux using WINE or Virtualbox.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:30 pm

Quote:
As with Kloogewerks (and most other virtual tabletop programs), Battlegrounds allows you to use any image as a map.

Really, so you could, say, play on top of The Last Supper? Hmm... getting some ideas for an old Paranoia game...

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