Mystara

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:40 am

I think I'll just pick up a couple of the original modules that strike my fancy. I'd rather have the full module and 9 modules seems like it will likely go beyond the levels 1-3 that I'll need them for anyways.

Then again, if I find it at a good price, I just might snag it anyways.

mordrene · Post by **mordrene** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:50 pm

you may want to check it out anyway. they tie the modules into three campaign quests that end in specularum and the module the veiled society.

Here is the link: http://paizo.com/store/downloads/wizard ... adventures

its 4 bucks and full of goodies.

Robocoastie · Post by **Robocoastie** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:58 pm

I agree with Treebore about using Mystara. There's a lot of free resources for Mystara available online too which makes it great for your players to use and far less work for you.
http://www.pandius.com/ is the official site (meaning approved by WotC).
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:50 pm

mordrene wrote:
you may want to check it out anyway. they tie the modules into three campaign quests that end in specularum and the module the veiled society.

Here is the link: http://paizo.com/store/downloads/wizard ... adventures

its 4 bucks and full of goodies.

Yeah, I've looked at it at the Paizo store. I'm just really not a PDF buyer, especially not scanned PDF's, they irritate me more than the regular ones. I may pick it up, I'll just have to take it and print it somewhere though.

I like reading something I can hold.

bighara · Post by **bighara** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:09 pm

I ran B10 in the GDK for a while under C&C and it was a great fit for the system. Everything worked fine until the party got creamed about halfway through. They sorta lost interest in the campaign after that.
If you get GAZ1, B2, and B10 you're good for a a couple years of play without additional materials. Start the party out near the keep, let them gain a couple levels, then fling 'em into Night's Dark Terror!

(Though you'll probably need to go the pdf route for B10. that sucker can get PRICEY on eBay!)

I'm pondering a new Known World game using either classic D&D or the Basic C&C box set when it comes out. We'll see!

EDIT: here's a couple of related links from DF

(review of B10)
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11095

(some of my notes about converting running under C&C)
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewt ... conversion

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:22 pm

Cool. I might just have to pick up B10. Sounds pretty interesting, I may have to pick it up.

I got my GAZ1 in today, was pretty hyped to find the map in perfect condition too. It mentions B10 in the back of it too. It says B10 has more information on the Callarii elves as well. That'd prove interesting to me. Is the info fairly decent?

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:43 am

DangerDwarf wrote:
Cool. I might just have to pick up B10. Sounds pretty interesting, I may have to pick it up.

I got my GAZ1 in today, was pretty hyped to find the map in perfect condition too. It mentions B10 in the back of it too. It says B10 has more information on the Callarii elves as well. That'd prove interesting to me. Is the info fairly decent?

Actually, most of the info on elves and humanoids in GAZ1 has been "lifted" from B10. The information therein is quite good, and there are even described the tribes of the Vyalia elves.

B10 is more of a sourcebook about Karameikos, than a "simple" adventure.

Actually, it could even be used as such if one did not have GAZ1 and wanted a more "bare bones" setting.

There is lots of material that can be used even when the adventure is finished. The best adventure for Classic, IMO!

bighara · Post by **bighara** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:00 pm

rabindranath72 wrote:
Actually, most of the info on elves and humanoids in GAZ1 has been "lifted" from B10. The information therein is quite good, and there are even described the tribes of the Vyalia elves.

B10 is more of a sourcebook about Karameikos, than a "simple" adventure.

Actually, it could even be used as such if one did not have GAZ1 and wanted a more "bare bones" setting.

There is lots of material that can be used even when the adventure is finished. The best adventure for Classic, IMO!

SOME B10 SPOILERS

Indeed. B10 is almost a campaign arc in itself. Not just an adventure module. I wish my guys had stayed on task a bit more. They were close to discovering about Xitaqa and getting clues on the lost valley. I don't think they realized there was a lot more stuff going on than just tracking down the horses.

One of my hopes is to re-run that module some day for a new group.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:48 pm

Haha, Bighara. I totally hear you on that one. The last time I ran B10 about 5 years ago, my players as well went way astray from the module and quickly created other adventures for themselves. It was too difficult to bring them back on track, but it's funny that you mentioned that.
......................................Omote

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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:53 pm

Actually had a chance to sit down and read GAZ1 I gotta say wow. Good stuff there. Makes me wish I didn't let this setting go to the way side when I was younger.

Got my 3rd OD&D Mystara session to run tonight. Love it.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:01 am

If you're playing OD&D or Basic D&D, and you're playing within GAZ1, you've got to start saying that you're playing in the Known World. Mystara wasn't around during OD&D or Basic.
.......................................Omote

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danbuter · Post by **danbuter** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:55 am

Another amazing adventure you should pick up is "Red Arrow, Black Shield". It's kinda/sorta like the Greyhawk Wars, but about 1000% better. There are army counters which reference the mass battle system in teh Companion set. And the PC's actually have to adventure throughout the Known World to get allies to fight against the evil wizard army coming out of the west.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:48 am

I picked up the Alfheim and Rockhome Gazateers now. Also grabbed the B6 and B10 modules.

B10 does indeed look to be promising.

I've seen Red Arrow, Black Shield but its been fairly pricey the few places I've come across it. Might check it out if I can find it at a better price.

Damn I'm getting hooked on all this classical goodness.

Philotomy Jurament · Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:29 am

I ran a Known World campaign with the BECM sets for many years, before a move broke it up. (It lingered for a bit, after the move, but finally withered...)

I started with GAZ1. It's an awesome D&D setting. It's got a cool Eastern European thing, with the gypsies/Traladarans, mountains, woods, wolves, and vampyres. It's also got a Saxon/Norman type conflict in the Thyatian nobility and the Traladaran commoners. It's got evil, rebellious Barons and love-to-hate-em evil wizards. Plus all the regular D&D stuff like orcs, et cetera.

I totally ripped off Ravenloft's plot and used it for Koriszegy Keep. Baron Koriszegy took the place of Strahd, and I completely changed the castle/dungeon (I used the ruined upper works map from GAZ1, and made the dungeons beneath it the big part of the adventure), but kept the rest of I6, including the village and the mists that hemmed in the cursed place. It fit like a hand-in-glove. The first night the PCs were in the village, the Baron came by and did a "drive by" on them. He was all decked out in antique bronze plate mail and wielding a greatsword. He didn't use any of his vampire abilities, he just attacked the party's mage for a couple of rounds, and then left. The party's dwarf hit him in the face with a (non-magic) war hammer, which did nothing. They also hit him with an ice storm. My description of him walking out of that with frost covering his moustache and sneering at them scared the crap out of them. They were going "holy shit, that thing came out of nowhere and we couldn't even touch it. Thoric hit him in the face, and he smiled!" (Actually, they did damage him with spells, but the Baron didn't let on...)

Eventually the PCs staked the baron and lifted the curse, but they did so with the assistance of Fyodor, another vampire (of several) created by the Baron. Fyodor played a double-game to get rid of his "parent." Once the curse was lifted, the PCs fled the Barony, leaving Fyodor there, free to do as he would. So they weren't entirely successful, but they were sure ready to get the hell away from there!

Good times.

Regarding the B1-9 compilation: I personally don't think it's worth it. Some of the best modules (like B1 and B4) are seriously abridged. You're better off getting the individual modules, IMO.

I'm a big fan of B4 (see the campaign log in my sig), and of X1, which starts from Specularum. (I listed a bunch of adventures I like, here.)

The Known World got a little over-the-top as time went on, but I still have a soft spot for it. I just ignore the goofy stuff.

I didn't appreciate Hollow World, at the time, but it has more appeal to me, now. I like some of the pulpy elements in it, and I could always ignore stuff that is too goofy for my taste. Lost civiilzations, dinosaurs, some sci-fi elements, et cetera, all appeal to me, in the grand pulp fantasy tradition. I like that kind of thing within certain parameters (that are difficult to define)...if it goes too far it becomes too steampunk or too sci-fi for my taste.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:54 am

Yeah, I recently read through GAZ1 and it blew me away. Great, great setting.

A lot of adventure crammed into such a little book. Social classes, the church, history, cities, characters of note, etc. Just reading through it spawned numerous ideas for me.

Coolest of all? It even has Bargle in it. Friggin Sweet!

Looks like my little BECM group will be staying here for awhile. I might try to do some active recruiting for this game too and spread a little old school joy. Right now its just characters, an elf and a dwarf. They've been knocking around the wilderness outside of the KEEP (B2). Next session, with the help of some men-at-arms, they'll do their first venture into the Caves of Chaos. Going after the kobolds. The Castellan's elf advisor requested their assistance in recovering a family heirloom (the necklace the kobold chief is wearing) after is was stolen when he was ambushed by the little dog-men while returning from a trip. It's been some good gaming. A lot of good RP'ing and some pretty sweet battles.

I think when they get done around Castellan's Keep I'll steer 'em towards Kelvan and start B10.

I still cant believe I never paid any attention to the Known World all these years.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:47 am

It's the goods, for sure. Matter of fact, a plane-hopping game I've been playing in for some time now just entered in the Known World. My character Ghendrin Ashorn Lutescu is back in Threshold baby! Wheeeee!

.....................................Omtoe

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SoulCatcher78 · Post by **SoulCatcher78** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:07 am

I'm probably so going to regret this but can someone tell me the difference (or correct my idea) about the differences between the Known World (GAZ settings) and Mystara. Are they the same things? I never paid much attention to the material when it was current (introduced to Greyhawk before I knew there was more to the Known World than what was included in the Expert set) so I am pretty clueless about it at this point. My only Mystara point of reference was the Princess Ark stuff that was in Dragon Magazine a long time ago.

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:22 pm

Omote wrote:
If you're playing OD&D or Basic D&D, and you're playing within GAZ1, you've got to start saying that you're playing in the Known World. Mystara wasn't around during OD&D or Basic.
.......................................Omote

FPQ

Right

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:32 pm

SoulCatcher78 wrote:
I'm probably so going to regret this but can someone tell me the difference (or correct my idea) about the differences between the Known World (GAZ settings) and Mystara. Are they the same things? I never paid much attention to the material when it was current (introduced to Greyhawk before I knew there was more to the Known World than what was included in the Expert set) so I am pretty clueless about it at this point. My only Mystara point of reference was the Princess Ark stuff that was in Dragon Magazine a long time ago.

Some subtle changes were done to the Known World as it was originally conceived by Frank Mentzer. Originally, the Known World had to be our own Earth untold ages ago. Also, Immortals were NOT gods, as they are assumed to be later; the true Gods are so far and distant that they are not accessible not even to Immortals. Actually, clerical magic as intended at the start was a strictly mortal power; think of it like "mysticism". This also means that immortals do not grant powers to "their" clerics. Rather, these "tap" into the same sources from which also immortals draw their powers: matter, time, thought, energy, enthropy. This also means that Immortals CANNOT deprive their mortal followers of power. As written in the Basic Players Rulebook, clerics derive their power from their faith alone.

The material planes were seen as the "cradle" of possible future immortals; this being the reason why immortals are loathe to interfere into it.

Since WotI and all the Mystara stuff, things have been in some way "homogeneised" with the AD&D ideas of gods, clerics etc. losing the originality and distinctiveness of the Known World.

P.S.

IMO the best treatment of Immortals is in Frank's set 5. WotI just does not make justice to the setting.

SoulCatcher78 · Post by **SoulCatcher78** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:57 pm

Got it. Now it makes more sense.

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:06 pm

rabindranath72 wrote:
Originally, the Known World had to be our own Earth untold ages ago.

Something like 150 million years ago, from the continents.
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Robocoastie · Post by **Robocoastie** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:07 am

"Rules Cyclopedia" sums up the two nicely IMO by simply saying "Mystara" is the name of the prime material plane and "Known" and "Hollow" world is that which is in Mystara (see Appendix 1 of RC). I point this out because the Rules Cyclopedia available in PDF is a great way for people to get their hands on OD&D rules and much campaign material in one piece.
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rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:11 am

Robocoastie wrote:
"Rules Cyclopedia" sums up the two nicely IMO by simply saying "Mystara" is the name of the prime material plane and "Known" and "Hollow" world is that which is in Mystara (see Appendix 1 of RC). I point this out because the Rules Cyclopedia available in PDF is a great way for people to get their hands on OD&D rules and much campaign material in one piece.

Well, the name is just the "minor" of the changes. It is true that the RC gives a good overall "feel" of what the setting is about, but as I said there are some subtle points which are completely missed, plus lots of errors and some changes which are not really justified. The original BECMI sources are a must, in any case.

Akrasia · Post by **Akrasia** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:25 am

rabindranath72 wrote:
... B10, Night's Dark Terror, possibly the best adventure ever written for Classic D&D ...

Only "possibly"?
Try "irrefutably.
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bighara · Post by **bighara** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:23 pm

Akrasia wrote:
Only "possibly"?
Try "irrefutably.

I like B10 a lot, but it's a tough call for me which I like more B2 or B10. Apples and Oranges I think. B2 is a great nonlinear introductory setting/adventures. B10 is set to a much larger scope and scale, with a definite plotline to it. Between the two modules and GAZ1, you can run a GDK game for a good long time.

On a complete side note, Reaper is getting to release some cheap non-blind prepainted gnolls. They'd be awesome for the scene in the lost valley (You gotta love 100 gnoll minis bearing down on the PCs ). If Reaper would just get around to some cheap worg riding goblins, I'd be set!

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:44 am

Akrasia wrote:
Only "possibly"?
Try "irrefutably.

Right

Lucifer_Draconus · Post by **Lucifer_Draconus** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:51 pm

I was on Piazo.com & saw all the PDFs for Mystera,while I was checking out stuff for my potential FR/Hordelands/Kara Tur campaign.I went DAMN!!! I need to get theze again. My old ones either got lost in moves or destroyed by my sisters rampaging guinea pigs grrr. I'll be getting 'em when I can afford to..they could easily replace FR as my default setting as I work on my own homebrew setting.

Iam Who Iam

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:54 pm

B10 is decent. Its not T1-4, but its not Terrible Trouble, either. I'd say B2 is the best of the lot of B modules, though, just because it is infinitely simpler.

Troll Lord Games

Mystara

Rules Cyclopedia sums it up too

Re: Rules Cyclopedia sums it up too