I've been banned from ENworld!!

[JRR]

Quote:
Then go to another gym. I'm not a WOTC fan but I did like alot of aspects of 3.X and I like C&C and 4e may have some things I like as well. It's all taste anyway. At it's core all D&D editions are similar that is why C&C works so well with them.

I've been to every gym in town. They are all covered up with those damned 3e soccer balls. Seriously, I've busted my ASS for several years trying to find an AD&D or C&C game. There ain't one around here anywhere, or if there is, they play it secretly in the graveyard at midnight somewhere.

Quote:
I don't understand this instant attitude of "I'm gonna hate it" not really knowing anything about it. A fanboy is a fanboy no matter what side of the edition line he is on.

I'm following the news on ENWORLD and elsewhere, and unless they are just feeding us false information, we have a good idea what 4e will be like. Clerics that heal by sticking an axe in an orc, fighters who hit for 500 points of damage, characters forced into mmorpg roles straight from Warcrack. The fricking thief does the most damage. OMG, run away, here comes Tasslehoff Burfoot!!! I'll take on the 4 fighters, you guys handle the halfling! Much like clerics draw on divine power and wizards arcane, there is now a martial power source, so fighters/monks/etc will be able to do kewl anime moves, float on air, shoot fireballs out their sword/a**e, etc. Now I don't know what kind of games y'all had, but this ain't my idea of D&D of any kind.
_________________
You face 99 beserkers, 99 beserkers, 99 beserkers, and 99 beserkers.

Will your stalwart band choose to Fight, Advance, or Run?

[CharlieRock]

Quote:
Seriously, I've busted my ASS for several years trying to find an AD&D or C&C game. There ain't one around here anywhere, or if there is, they play it secretly in the graveyard at midnight somewhere.

Actually, we do start our game around 11pm (and end around 7 or 8 am). Graveyard? Well, it is halloween season soon ...

Quote:
Much like clerics draw on divine power and wizards arcane, there is now a martial power source, so fighters/monks/etc will be able to do kewl anime moves, float on air, shoot fireballs out their sword/a**e, etc. Now I don't know what kind of games y'all had, but this ain't my idea of D&D of any kind.

It's not really D&D (in the sense that the other versions established what D&D "is").

Its RIFTS. Just without the Rail-Guns.

And those were the best reason to play RIFTS anyway.

[RakintheBlue]

my 2 best posts on my thoughts so far:

Quote:
I actually play wow, currently and I have been for some time, although I'd really rather play table-top, wow does do a few good things.

First it lets me play with other people without having to leave my house, set up schedules (too much, except for raiding, but you an still do 5 mans easily on the spot with no schedule) or finding friends to play with.

It also allows me to do mindless boring gaming, just to pass the time away while I do something like watch a new tv show or listen to a CD.

It's really something I would not want out of Table-topping, due to all the prep work that is involved with getting together and getting all the meterials put together, those 2-5 hours a week or whatever, I would hope, need to full of excitement, as well as ups and downs.

Wow is where I go to relax, LA (Table-top) is where I go for fun.

I would (I won't be using 4e when it comes out) be scared to see this paradigm being shifted into my table top sessions, where it eventually just becomes the announcing of abilities and mindless rolling of dice, quite like how wow is just clicking abilities/spells non-stop.

Quote:
I thought the argument was that by incorperating wow like mechanics (not boss content) you're promoting the downfall of use of the things that you CAN NOT do in wow. Like, I dunno, cast grease on the floor and have your half-orc (or I prefer oaf ) slide a giant piece of statue at the charging goblins.

Why try and stuff all the things that don't make tabletop unique in the game and leave little room for what does make it stand out from computer ran games?

[Treebore]

JRR,

Where do you live?

Also give on line a try. SKYPE has a free version to download where you talk via your computer. If you want visuals Gametable can work, as long as you know your ISP address.

My son, with me assisting, is running DCC 1 "Idylls of the Rat King" via SKYPE today, and we can use another player or two. You have about an hour, plenty of time if your not working.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

[Telhawk]

I still stick by my original take on the situation: D&D 4.0 is going to lead to an even greater Balkanization between role-players and roll-players than already exists. Steve Chenault has already made it clear that there's to be no gratuitous WotC/4.0 bashing round these parts - and that's fine with me - but banning someone (or nearly so, anyway) because they dared to venture an opinion?!? It's not the first time I've seen this happen - few years ago, a couple of very articulate, sharp and agreeable individuals (husband and wife team) on Trek-RPG.net were banned over creating a "Would Christ be More Powerful Than the Borg?" thread, and the moderator in question was eventually pronounced by both the resident population and the site owner to be at fault - but doing that over such an inconsequential issue as 4.0 is...well, I just don't get it.

I don't read ENworld, I don't post on it, and I certainly don't subscribe to its range of interests, but this sort of thing is pretty much a big red X against in my humble opinion. Treebore, you're best off sticking with a group that at least tolerates diversity, if not outright celebrating it.

[Treebore]

Telhawk wrote:
I still stick by my original take on the situation: D&D 4.0 is going to lead to an even greater Balkanization between role-players and roll-players than already exists. Steve Chenault has already made it clear that there's to be no gratuitous WotC/4.0 bashing round these parts - and that's fine with me - but banning someone (or nearly so, anyway) because they dared to venture an opinion?!? It's not the first time I've seen this happen - few years ago, a couple of very articulate, sharp and agreeable individuals (husband and wife team) on Trek-RPG.net were banned over creating a "Would Christ be More Powerful Than the Borg?" thread, and the moderator in question was eventually pronounced by both the resident population and the site owner to be at fault - but doing that over such an inconsequential issue as 4.0 is...well, I just don't get it.

I don't read ENworld, I don't post on it, and I certainly don't subscribe to its range of interests, but this sort of thing is pretty much a big red X against in my humble opinion. Treebore, you're best off sticking with a group that at least tolerates diversity, if not outright celebrating it.

This is pretty much the only board that shows tolerance.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

[Julian Grimm]

I understand why people don't like the idea of 4e but that is the system that will be. And there's not a thing we can do about it. Short of a mega lottery win and a buyout of WOTC and D&D.

The things about 4e that interests me was in some of the adventure design philosphy. Encounters being more than what they have been in 3e and the dungeon design article, the one about more dynamics, is worth a read for any CK. I'm not thrilled about it either but, I can accept D&D has different owners and design phlisophies than it used to.

Things change. I've adapted and went to C&C using it's mallability for the system I want and have not really worried about 4e. There will be things I borrow from it like I have all other editions and things I won't use. What will be will be and I'm sure there will be 4e refugees check us out just like there are 3e refugees.

In the end what we need to be is what we are already. Gamers tolerent of other systems and styles and not fall into the edition war instant bash mentality that plagues other sites.
_________________
The Lord of Ravens
My blog

[Jungger]

I am not at all surprised, Tree!!!

It was only a matter of time before that attitude of yours got you in trouble.

/headshake

For shame!!!!

[SavageRobby]

Treebore wrote:
This is pretty much the only board that shows tolerance.

I dunno, to be honest. I like it here a lot, but I wouldn't necessarily say that this is a highly tolerant board. In fact, it would be easy to pull up a number of posts pretty quickly that demonstrate the opposite fairly clearly. However, since I share the same relative intolerances that most here share, that fact doesn't bother me too much.

[Harry Joy]

CharlieRock wrote:
It's not going to effect your game in quite the same sense, unless they hog up all the tables at the game store.

I don't know about the tables, because around here no one plays RPGs in the game stores, but it is already affecting what books I can find on the shelf. Two years ago, the best local shop stocked its RPG books in about sixty feet worth of magazine shelves, stuffed to the gills. They thinned out a little late last year, but early this year, when the shop owner got the word from SOMEwhere that a new edition was coming, he cleared all the way down to about 1/3 the original rack space, and stopped restocking 3rd party books except for the most popular.

I buy all kinds of RPG books, but have no intention of buying 4.0. I'm done with new systems. So once the 3.x books go the way of the dodo, there will be nothing left for me to buy at the FLGS, as far as new releases go. Ron, the owner, will not spread out his RPG dollars over four DnD systems, plus GURPS, Rifts, Exalted, WoD and so on. The only DnD will be 4.0.

So, it will affect me directly.

[Treebore]

SavageRobby wrote:
I dunno, to be honest. I like it here a lot, but I wouldn't necessarily say that this is a highly tolerant board. In fact, it would be easy to pull up a number of posts pretty quickly that demonstrate the opposite fairly clearly. However, since I share the same relative intolerances that most here share, that fact doesn't bother me too much.

Well, I said they "show tolerance", not that they had complete tolerance.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

[CharlieRock]

Greylock wrote:
I don't know about the tables, because around here no one plays RPGs in the game stores, but it is already affecting what books I can find on the shelf. Two years ago, the best local shop stocked its RPG books in about sixty feet worth of magazine shelves, stuffed to the gills. They thinned out a little late last year, but early this year, when the shop owner got the word from SOMEwhere that a new edition was coming, he cleared all the way down to about 1/3 the original rack space, and stopped restocking 3rd party books except for the most popular.

I buy all kinds of RPG books, but have no intention of buying 4.0. I'm done with new systems. So once the 3.x books go the way of the dodo, there will be nothing left for me to buy at the FLGS, as far as new releases go. Ron, the owner, will not spread out his RPG dollars over four DnD systems, plus GURPS, Rifts, Exalted, WoD and so on. The only DnD will be 4.0.

So, it will affect me directly.

Ouch.
P.S. I loved Paladin. "Have gun. Will travel."

[Tadhg]

SavageRobby wrote:
I dunno, to be honest. I like it here a lot, but I wouldn't necessarily say that this is a highly tolerant board. In fact, it would be easy to pull up a number of posts pretty quickly that demonstrate the opposite fairly clearly. However, since I share the same relative intolerances that most here share, that fact doesn't bother me too much.

I'll respectfully disagree. This is probably the most tolerant board of all that I've been associated with (a member) for these past couple of years.

ENworld

RPGnet

K&K

DF

Old TLG boards,

PPP

Lejendary

Grognard's Tavern

Goodman

Necromaner

Fraternity of Shadows

Others.

You may point to a couple of posts, I can point to hundreds of posts/threads where so many "BAD" people went above and beyond any normal tolerance level.

This forum is not perfect, nor is C&C, nor are the members, But, IMO, it sets a high level of gentlemanly/gentleladylike conduct that could should be an example to RPG forums.

We have a diverse crowd, consisting of people who support C&C and perhaps every other version of the game, including recent fan produced alternate/subset and/or other rulesets of the game ~ that allow publishing of new material.

Not all of us support all the TLG forum rules with regard to what is allowed to be talked about. But that doesn't matter. If the Trolls don't wish to have certain subject matter allowed, that's their prerogative and we have to support it.

Anyway, just sayin' and not trying to be adversarial.

Peace.

_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

[Treebore]

I agree that out of all of the boards I have been a member of this is the friendliest. Even those with whom I disagree, we disagree as friends, rather than in real anger.

So, yes, we are far from a perfect, but we are still the best board I am a member of. With the Goodman and Necromancer boards being close.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

[Omote]

I hate everybody on these boards. I hate everybody's opinion but gideon_thorne, cleverthepit, and Troll Lord. These forum posters are always right, and have the best posts.

Ban me. Go ahead, I dare you.

......................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[Harry Joy]

Treebore wrote:
I agree that out of all of the boards I have been a member of this is the friendliest. Even those with whom I disagree, we disagree as friends, rather than in real anger.

Despite the obvious bleed over between here and DF, I'm finding the tone here to be much better, much more conciliatory and friendly. Fruitful, even. A good online friend of mine was surprised to find out I was trying to make a go at DF, because he had given up ages ago, in spite of him being a forum hound.

Re@CharlieRock: this avatar - I've recently decided to go by the name Paladin at some small, out of the way boards. It's a little bit sillier than my current/classic screenname, and something of a loaded word in many ways, but it reflects me quite a lot better.

Concerning my FLGS - the only flaw, for me, there, is that they do not stock C&C adequately. But I have to admit, they are in the business of selling books, and follow the money. C&C ain't there for them yet. I hope someday it will be.

[serleran]

Quote:
This forum is not perfect, nor is C&C, nor are the members, But, IMO, it sets a high level of gentlemanly/gentleladylike conduct that could should be an example to RPG forums.

Why are you looking at me with those interlocking laser sights?

[Dyne]

I've gotten in constant fights on EN World and the WotC boards, but somehow have never come close to being banned. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong....

[CharlieRock]

Greylock wrote:
Re@CharlieRock: this avatar - I've recently decided to go by the name Paladin at some small, out of the way boards. It's a little bit sillier than my current/classic screenname, and something of a loaded word in many ways, but it reflects me quite a lot better.

Concerning my FLGS - the only flaw, for me, there, is that they do not stock C&C adequately. But I have to admit, they are in the business of selling books, and follow the money. C&C ain't there for them yet. I hope someday it will be.

I missed the Greylock referance. I guess I should go google it or something. But I used to watch Paladin all the time as a kid.

My FLGS has some C&C. I was on the Goodman boards and complained about it either selling to fast or something because I couldn't get the M&T book. Someone was monitoring it (someone whose first name rhymes with Go ). Next thing I know, we have complete sets on the shelf. Turned out a distributing middleman was sitting on his hands concerning getting this line of books out. Now we are getting them much more regularly.

Also, C&C's entire line-up would not take half the space of one shelf. There just isn't that much to put up.

And finally the case of our DCCs. There weren't too many put out. However, between I and some uncounted other fans that kept special ordering through the store for more, the owner keeps about half a shelf for just DCCs now.

C&C has a smaller audience for sure. But I don't know anybody that plays VtM and I always see those books all the time.

[Breakdaddy]

Omote wrote:
I hate everybody on these boards. I hate everybody's opinion but gideon_thorne, cleverthepit, and Troll Lord. These forum posters are always right, and have the best posts.

Ban me. Go ahead, I dare you.

......................................Omote

FPQ

If you know what's good for you, you had BETTER hate me the most!!!!!

[serleran]

Just glad to be in the crows of the hated. I hate being liked. Sycophantic fanboys.

[SavageRobby]

Rhuvein wrote:
I'll respectfully disagree. This is probably the most tolerant board of all that I've been associated with (a member) for these past couple of years.

I have no problem at all agreeing to disagree with you on this. This is a small board, though, and very homogeneous as relates to, hmm, gaming ideology, I guess I'd say. I've seen a number of instances (and heard of more) of people driven off by the relative intolerance to other gaming ideology.

Are there are a lot of fights here? Certainly not. But its a small enough board with not much to offer (beyond C&C discussion, that is) that folks that are "minority" don't stick around to duke it out, they just leave. If you want to say this is a more peaceful board than most, I would definitely agree (in fact, I can only think of two boards I've frequently more peaceful). But I wouldn't necessarily say tolerant.

Again, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to be adversarial or pick a fight. I like here. I like it for some of those reasons. I think diversity is often overrated (its good as a general principle, but sometimes in specifics its counterproductive). There is a very low signal to noise ratio here, very much due to the fact that this is a fairly homogeneous group.

[DangerDwarf]

I gotta agree with Robby here. Definitely a friendly board with a group of mostly like minded members but not always tolerant. Mature? Yes. But not always tolerant.

Ask Jynx.

[Julian Grimm]

I'd say we're still pretty tolerant. There have been cases where things got out of hand but they are rare. And one that may look like we did was a response to deliberate trolling by someone making an issue from one sentence in a magazine article.

I've read boards where there are people that a near cult like mentality has appeared. Ones where they nearly see the 1e AD&D books as holy texts not to be trifled with. They have even went so far as running off members for not being 'Old School' enough. ( Sorry all I've been out of school for a long time I have no desire to go back or proudly say I am still in School.) Some have even went as far as revoking EGG and RJK's sainthoods because they did not proudly champion 1e anymore nor wanted to go on with the Jihad of restoring the 'one true game'.
The other side of the coin is groups like on WOTC's and EnWorlds boards. They are of the same cut, mentality and purpose as the above except they have different holy texts and follow the law of 'Balance'. The only difference between the two groups is what edition they play.

Then there is us. We're classic players, 3e players, powergamers, Forgotten Realms fans, Airdhe fans, Greyhawk Fans, Eberron Fans, People who houserule, people who play RAW and so on. We learn from each other and do not make condemming posts that rip one persons style or houserules because they are not 'balanced' or 'old school' enough. We use maturity and constructive criticism to help further the game.

So yeah, compared to all the above we're a tolerant bunch.
_________________
The Lord of Ravens
My blog

[Bowbe]

Haha.

Enworld serves its purposes.

I have mostly a wait and see attitude over 4ed. I know from experience that a lot of the BS spewed about it (even from most of the developers whom I mostly like) is just that till the final product comes out. Some of them get real squirrely because they are so geeked about what they are working on but I will say... rest assured Chris Perkins and Scott Rouse will reign them in before it gets to the gaming table.

I guarantee that because Chris Perkins is A. A great writer. B. A formidible personage who you seldom hear or see (except in the initial video for 4ed). The guy is a human laser printer that writes constantly when not working out or kicking ass "Ultimate Fighter" style. Note that most of paizo's more popular outings were largely written by him, as were some of the more memorable modules that WOTC released in the last few years.

Likewise Scott takes a lot of crap but he's actually pretty cool and is the guy MOST concerned about making 4ed as open and available as possible. The problem WOTC is having with the "making it open" is that guys like Rouse (believe it or not) want to make it as open as they can. Distributors are saying NO, because they dont want a repeat of 100 crap startup 4ed companies oversaturating things like before. That proved dreadful for brick and mortars who still have some 3ed stuff sitting on their shelves, let alone the 3.5 stuff they bought. The distributors and some at WOTC would prefer to keep it down to a handful with good experience and reputations industry wide.

In other words what is "officially sanctioned" 4ed D&D may be adapted to current playstyle by 4ed's 3rd party publishers who move more to a 2nd party capacity. Thats good for Goodman, Paizo, ect. You'll still get Dungeon Crawl classics that look and feel like DCC's.

You'll still get adventure paths that feel like adventure paths. Where this wierd "4ed Foo" will be developed is likely more of an "in house" thing for WOTC. Sorta their special sandbox for folks who dig "that style" of game.

As we proved with Necro and 3ed offerings by TLG, just because the rules "state it is this way" doesn't mean you have to play it like that or accept the Canon in your group or with folks who enjoy a more oldschool style.

I've made my gripes with how the info is parsed out known. I think the "rest every encounter" thing is lame excuse. Better to say, we want you to be able to kicka ass all the time. I can get behind that to an extent.

Face it. Its games, and there are a ton of different playstyles no matter what.

As for Enworld...ug. I've had my go rounds there as well from time to time but most have ended amicably. WOTC boards... another story. I really lothe some of the so called "fans" of RPGs that hang there. Not a nice or friendly crowd for the most part. In fact rather insulting to differing points of view, with obvious full approval of Wizzos. Sad.

Like any place that has a similar population of gamers it has to be a bear to mod. With a huge site, you get tons of moderators. Accepting tons of moderators, you always get those that are good and those that suck. The ones that suck stick up for their buddies or get the "God Complex" because they earned a ban gun. You of course also get tons of people who cry-ass to the admins that you are being mean to them for offering a passioned and different point of view. Thats also a malise of a ton of gamers. I refer to it as the "game within the game" that is our hobby.

Posting online bitching about something, hype, hyperbole, and being the "biggest jackass" because you aren't face to face with who you are talking to is all part of it. The fact that alot of people are not as good with words when it comes to nuance, humor, and friendly chides is lost on chats and message boards is no secret.

I know that it currently seems (and this is a perception rather than probably a truth) that with the 4ed announcement, anyone who has been a bold supporter of Enworld and 3.x who feels betrayed is suddenly an outcast if they arent totally freakin excited by 4ed. Mods sometimes forget that people have a right to be leery of change.

I dont think all the moderators do this, but it seems a few really do and have their ban guns turned to kill right now lest they lose some percieved "insider" advantage. Shame on those that do. Hopefully they will figure it out. In recent days I have seen tons of people banned/blocked from threads for some of the most insipid sleights imaginable that were no doubt percieved as far more than they actually were.

Take that Ehren cat for example. Yes to name names. That guy can lay a load of bull$h1t against AD&D and be revoltingly vile to E.G.G as he wishes, but nobody seems to set the ban cannon on him. Say something about his seemingly cluelessness when it comes to his baiting and debating for an edition war and you get a 7 day vacation. I don't get it but oh well. I've chosen to ignore him or avoid threads he pops in on because it isn't worth it to me to stress out on someone who just doesn't like AD&D. Thats his choice so why worry further.

Some people show up on message boards because they like to fight and it makes them feel superior to "win" a lame argument about a game that has no real answers. I ignore them=I am happy.

In my personal experience moderating forums and chats years ago, Mods who went hyper in such manners didn't last long, or people went away and found other places to vent.

Currently I am quite enjoying typing up the playtest reports on Enworld and giving design and behind the scenes observations of how things went for my COB test group. Hopefully you are all enjoying them as well. (those of you wanting to run COB and not PLAY it hopefully! If your a player avoid the thread! No cheating ya hear!

Troll boards have always been a nice place to visit. Even if it is to fling poo at each other in a teasing manner from time to time.

Peace

Case

[ssfsx17]

The official message boards for Classic BattleTech are extremely friendly when you consider that, on a daily basis, people directly insult the latest turns of events yet the official staff try to talk it out reasonably and even endorse fan-written alternate histories.

[jman5000]

Ya, but there are a couple of asses on this board

[jman bows and waves]

cheers

j.

[Omote]

Breakdaddy wrote:
If you know what's good for you, you had BETTER hate me the most!!!!!

Sometimes, the seething hatred is so deep, that one need not mention the focus of the burning-death hate. YOU GOT THAT BREAK...
Wait a minute, you're actually a pretty cool dude. BUT I STILL HATE THEE!!!
...............................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[Julian Grimm]

I feel good today. On other boards most have that kind of hatred for me.
_________________
The Lord of Ravens
My blog

[Omote]

*points at JG menacingly*

..............................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society