Troll Lord Games

In light of possibly starting another game store, to somewhat gauge the buying habits of todays gamers, I have a poll question.

Definitely about half and half for me. A lot of times, my FLGS can't get the product in for a month or two after its released, because of their ordering policy. Other times I'm just in the mood for a discount.

I'd still say that only accounts for 1/2 of my gaming spending. The rest is at the good ole' game shop.

......................................Omote

FPQ
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

With the exception of the Trolls, I have bought probably 90%+ of my gaming stuff online. With the Trolls I have bought almost everything C&C from the Trolls. In fact, i can't think of anything I have bought in a store or from another online source for C&C.

Typically, if its below $15.00 retail I'll buy it at a LGS, if I only want one.

I have bought too much over the years for me to not want a discount most of the time. I am sure I have saved over a thousand dollars because of it.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

I only buy OoP material, and that can typically be found, for the best price, online. Therefore, I buy nearly 99% online. The rest, if a store exists that carries it, I get there, and then, from only one store anyway because they tend to have a lot of what I'm after... which is a lot.

I would buy more from my local store, which has a good and varied offering from d20 to OoP material, if it were closer than 40 miles one way. However, I went witht the 2nd option, but I really buy about 99% of my gaming material online.

R-
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Rigon o' the Lakelands, Baron of The Castles & Crusades Society
The Book of the Mind

If my LGS were more reliable in getting the stuff that I want and had a good ordering policy, I would shop a lot more through the store. However, at this point, I also don't hesitate for a second thought to order something I want online. I can typically save some money and possibly get the product before the store does. It would have to be a pretty awesome LGS to break my ways.

Moriarty the Red
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"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

its about 70/30 for me buying online vs in a store.

online, I get what I want when I want it (sorta), with a store, I have to go there, check out the racks and racks and racks of 3rd edition stuff knowing in the back of my head that the stuff that I want wont be there (and it never is).. then I generally special order and have to wait a bit longer than ordering direct online because distributors now must find it, get it, deliver it, then the store has to unpack it, put it up front, someone has to call me, I'll be at work get the message, store will be closed, have to wait for a time that I can get there, drive there, pick up the stuff, drive home while paying stupid 70cents on the dollar markups that no longer reflect the reality of the currencies between our 2 countries.

man, after that rant, I may up it to 80 or 90 percent
Cheers,

J.

I said half... But I get most of my books via ordering online/phone. For instance, the local shops don't seem to have C&C and so I have to order from zee Trolls (not a bad thing a'tall, mind!). Then there is the ever-cheap Amazon (or even Chapters Indigo, now) where those prices are too damned tempting. Like that City of Brass boxed set... It's way less on Amazon.

But I do like to support my local stores! That's where I buy my comics, some shirts, new minis, dice, used games, and some new book product (impulse, impulse, impulse), and other stuff. Victoria is cool as there are like 7 game and comic shops in a row on one street downtown...

In the end, I probably spend more of my money online, as the books add up. But in terms of physical items, I'd say it's half. I wish I could spend all of my money at the local shops, but when I can buy 3 books for the price of two or less, it's kinda tough... I still try to spead the wealth around, though.
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"Um... just how -does- one wield a vorpal gnome, man?"

The key words in your Poll Question are:

Quote:
"When I have a local game store that serves my gaming needs"

I have several Local Game Stores within easy driving distance but none of them "serve my gaming needs" to any notable extent.

Local Game Stores tend to feature only a small handful of well-stocked lines of gaming material, which varies in content but is invariably composed of whatever particular things are favored and played by the guys who own and run the store; and their selection of any other line of gaming material is just as invariably awful, a mishmash of isolated titles and incomplete sets, all scattered like refuse around the obligatory D&D books and/or "clicky-base" crap, with the latest packs of MtG ripoffs and loose dice waiting for you at the register.

And with all due respect to any Local Game Store owners or employees who may be among us (and please note that it's not directed at the OP, or at anyone else in specific), I've gotta say this roughly 50% of the time, if you don't happen to be personally acquainted with the proprietors, you can count on a complete and total lack of "Customer Service" from your Local Game Store.

Look, I realize it's not a Japanese department store. I'm not expecting a uniformed greeter who will smile and bow and offer to guide me to my joyous shopping opportunities but fer cryin' out loud, some of these people don't have enough common courtesy to so much as say "Hello!" You can wander around for an hour through the disheveled piles of rubbish they call their store, trying desperately to find anything salvageable, and never once so much as catch their glance.

And if you dare to interrupt the Terribly Important Conversation which they are always and eternally having with their friends/coworkers (about their latest gaming session), they will make it perfectly obvious that you have irritated and inconvenienced them.

And if despite all the odds you actually do find something worth purchasing, they will continue their Terribly Important Conversation while they are ringing you up. They may glance in your direction long enough to make sure the change actually hits your hand as they're turning away from you. Sometimes not.

Now, okay NOT ALL Local Game Stores are like that. In fact, roughly 50% of them are run by people who are friendly and attentive to all their customers; but you do all know that other 50% don't you? IF you happen to be one of the "regular" customers, or are otherwise personally acquainted with the guys who run the place, then I guess that kind of store might be nice to hang around in but it still seems mighty damned unprofessional to me, and I will not give my money to Local Game Stores that are run like that.

Yeah, I know it's usually a group of friends who all game together, who were just looking for a way to make some money off their hobby, and they always dreamed of having their own game store, and blah blah blah, and I empathize Hell, I'd like to have a game store too, someday but if it's a real business, then *&^%$#@! ACT like it. Get OFF your fat, lazy, gamer ass and attend to the customers!

Hey, here's an Idea: Try thinking of them AS "customers" that is, as the focus and SOURCE OF YOUR EMPLOYMENT rather than as nuisances and distractions.

And no matter what your Terribly Important Conversation is about, SHUT THE HELL UP. You are supposed to be working, not socializing.

************

Sorry. Just had to get that off my chest.

3rd Eye, funny you should post what you did. I ran a very good game store. Had great customer service. Had new product in on the day of release. And could get in most special orders in within 1-3 days. I got an offer to sell my store I couldn't turn down and took it. The new owner didn't provide the customer service I did. The store got very messy. It was very much the kind of store you dislike. And guess what? He put the store out of business. I sold him a successful store and he pissed it away. His sales dropped to less than mine within a year. Now my town has no game store at all. All the stores that sold gaming products within 20 miles have closed down. And the gaming community that thrived here is suffering. That's why I'm seriously thinking of getting another store going.

I am SO surprised that ANY store that doesn't provide great customer service, isn't clean, doesn't keep product in stock, doesn't take advantage of next day ordering that game distributors can provide, etc. even survives! I would guess that most of those stores actually run at a loss and a tax decuction for the owners.

Dristram wrote:
I am SO surprised that ANY store that doesn't provide great customer service, isn't clean, doesn't keep product in stock, doesn't take advantage of next day ordering that game distributors can provide, etc. even survives! I would guess that most of those stores actually run at a loss and a tax decuction for the owners.

Well, usually the crappy kind of game store doesn't survive not for long, anyway. They usually only last a few years, at most, before they finally drive away all the customers who aren't their personal acquaintances and then they start eating themselves alive on all the "Employee Discounts" (and worse), their stock dwindles, and they wither up and die.

I've watched it happen to many Local Game Stores over the years sometimes it's a new operation that just sinks right out of the port; but sometimes it's an old and established store that I formerly enjoyed going to, ruined and run to the ground by incompetent New Management.

There are enough of the bad kind of Local Game Store that I am often hesitant to even try a new place. Shopping online is awfully easy, and not as likely to make me want to shoot somebody.

I buy the vast majority of my RPG material online. There are several gaming stores near me, but they don't have the RPG material I want (which is mostly out-of-print stuff, or smaller-market stuff like OSRIC, C&C, et cetera). I'm not interested in the RPG products they carry. A special order is typically more trouble than it's worth when I can get online and have the product on its way to me within hours. Also, the prices tend to be better online, even with shipping (and if I can find something at Amazon, I get free shipping).

However, I do buy board games from brick-and-mortar stores about 50% of the time.
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http://www.philotomy.com
Lost City Campaign Log

Local store?

What is this fantastical and amazing sounding place of which you speak?

I'm just jealous because I haven't lived any where near a gaming store in 14 years.

These days, FLGS bread and butter are CCGs or anything collectable for that matter. That is where the real money is made. The products that keep those kids coming in month after month, spending their parents hard earned cash.

Therefore, RPGs and the like are usually relegated to nothing more than an afterthought a large percentage of the time. And even if they do carry anything more than the usual WOTC stock, they have no idea about the product they are carrying. They can sure tell you about that uber Magic card, but RPGs, fugetaboutit!

That being said, we have a pretty decent FLGS shop here. He tries well to keep more in stock than just the usual crap and he has a large selection of boardgames as well.

To answer your question, for me to shop in a FLGS as apposed to online these things need to be in place:

1. It isn't cool if your store feels like your parents basement when i walk in the door. Accompanied with that dingy smell and crap all over the floor. Keep your store looking clean and neat. I don't expect to be able to eat off the toliets, but at least keep things nice and tidy.

2. I understand that FLGS are already under the gun when competing with online retailers, thus my prices in a FLGS are going to reflect that. That's fine. But don't totally rake me over the coals when it comes to pricing.

3. Customer Service. It's real simple. I don't expect nor require that i be waited on hand and foot the moment i walk in your store. I do however ask that when simple things as inquires as to game releases, dates, etc... or "hey can you order this" not be met with a blank stare, or a "no!"

I've always tried to support the FLGS, but i won't do it at my loss.
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Richard McBain

Trolllord Games

Convention Coordinator

Executive Director - TrollCon, Winter Dark
richard@trolllord.com

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ALEA IACTA EST - THE DIE IS CAST

My FLGS has been pretty darn good about all my special orders (mostly C&C and Hackmaster stuff). Plus, I've found some neat surprises in the used bins, so I would say that I only shop online if they absolutely cannot get what I want. They're really nice there, and I'm happy to support their business.

That being said, I'm going to have to break that vow to spend that Paizo credit I've still got from the end of Dragon magazine.

Well said Huds0n, well said!

The realities of the situation is the nature of the business and related businesses (and by this, I mean bookstores in general)

With various gaming books having a lower profit margin in the retail industry and, at the same time, having to compete with online exclusive retailers (like Amazon) makes it an interesting tightrope to walk.

A good FLGS would garner a lot more business from me and I wouldn't mind spending a couple of dollars more compared to online retail prices if it meant that I could just go in and get what I want -- hassle free.

M
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"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

The best FGS (its not so local) is the one I've been pimping a lot... and one that some don't like (because they only deal with them at cons, which is a whole other sort of business.... volume.) They have incredible customer service, offer "cash back" for buying stuff, let you order anything, literally, even the most obscure stuff and they'll hunt it down (obviously, the harder it is to find, the longer it takes to get, but they will get it), and even have a layaway system so you can "get" a lot at once, but pay for it as you can afford (of course you don't get to take it home until its paid for.) Hell, they even give out free stuff to you if you're not an ass to them, or are a repeat customer. I just wish I had the money to go there more often (still owe almost $700...) so I could cut my list of needed items from 17 pages to 7.

I like going to my LGS mainly to hang out for a bit. I usually use the excuse of buying a periodical (Dragon, KoDT, or Crusader) or a new module/setting. But I just usually see what is on the used book rack and listen to the other gamers. I make the owner order most of the game books I actually use .

Now, for out-of-print I always go online.

serleran wrote:
The best FGS (its not so local) is the one I've been pimping a lot... and one that some don't like (because they only deal with them at cons, which is a whole other sort of business.... volume.) They have incredible customer service, offer "cash back" for buying stuff, let you order anything, literally, even the most obscure stuff and they'll hunt it down (obviously, the harder it is to find, the longer it takes to get, but they will get it), and even have a layaway system so you can "get" a lot at once, but pay for it as you can afford (of course you don't get to take it home until its paid for.) Hell, they even give out free stuff to you if you're not an ass to them, or are a repeat customer. I just wish I had the money to go there more often (still owe almost $700...) so I could cut my list of needed items from 17 pages to 7.

I guess i missed it? Who are you talking about?
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Richard McBain

Trolllord Games

Convention Coordinator

Executive Director - TrollCon, Winter Dark
richard@trolllord.com

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ALEA IACTA EST - THE DIE IS CAST

Serl has been talking up Crazy Igor's for some months now. I wonder if that is the place.

....................................Omote

FPQ
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

huds0n wrote:
These days, FLGS bread and butter are CCGs or anything collectable for that matter. That is where the real money is made. The products that keep those kids coming in month after month, spending their parents hard earned cash.

Therefore, RPGs and the like are usually relegated to nothing more than an afterthought a large percentage of the time.

This is quite true. It was a slippery slope when the internet stores came into being. When they did, more gamers went online for their RPG products and sales dropped significantly at game stores. The game stores responded by spending money on inventory that was not so deeply discounted online.

I've noted that many gamers will say, "I shop online for my RPG products because game stores don't want to support RPGs anymore." And from game stores ya hear, "I lowered or stopped carrying RPG products because most or all my customers have gone online for their RPG products." It's a sad state of affairs if you ask me. When I started my game store, I wanted it to be THE place for RPGs! I stocked as much as I could including small press stuff. But what happened is I had more customers browse my RPG selection and buy it online than buy it in the store. So, CCGs, Cliks, and Wargaming (40k, Warmachine, etc) is where most of my sales came from. Fortunately, I did have enough customers buying RPGs from me to make it worth stocking. But not the level of sales it could have been.

huds0n wrote:
2. I understand that FLGS are already under the gun when competing with online retailers, thus my prices in a FLGS are going to reflect that. That's fine. But don't totally rake me over the coals when it comes to pricing.

What defines that kind of pricing? Charging retail? Or more than retail?

Yeah, Crazy Egor's. The home store is about 100 minutes away from me, so I don't go often, but when I do, I spend and spend... because I suck.

Crazy Egor's sounds like a store doing things right.

I only buy what I can't find at my LGS and I tend to save up a bit as it's over and hour away to ANY game store...I live in the middle of nowhere S.E. KS, but on a bright note not to many drive bys (just lots of meth labs, farming country you know) and truthfully most game stores don't carry my taste in supplies and the one that does carries oop stuff for retail or higher, so it is very frustrating some times to support them.

Later guys.

T
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Great GooglieMooglie!!!!

If the gaming store has C&C printed stuff, I will prefer the LGS. However, most rpg things I buy are small PDFs products a LGS is not likely to sell. So, most of my gaming money won't go to the LGS.
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Homebrews Wiki a list of campaign settings on the web.

This is a true story about Crazy Igor's from this year's Gencon. If you don't believe me ask Breakdaddy, he was standing right next to me when this happened.

So i was at Gencon, and i was looking for some Alternity stuff. Specifically the PHB. Anyway, i went looking at all the game vendors at GC and was having no luck. I finally made my way to Igor's (his booth was on the complete other side of the exhibit hall from Trolllord this year). Anyway, myself, Breakdaddy and few others were roaming the hall when i came to Igor's.

I went right to looking for all things Alternity. After a minute of looking i found the only Alternity PHB to be had at Gencon. I pick it up the see the $40 price tag which made me pause for a minute. As soon as i turned to find an employee to see if he could do anything for another Exhibitor on price, someone literally grabs the book out of my hand.

I look up to see a Igor employee holding the book he just snatched from my hands. As i look at him like, WTF MAN! This converstation ensues:
Igor toad: "Oh man, i've been looking for one of these."
Me: "Ummm yeah me too."
Igor toad: "Unless you were going to buy it?"
Me: "I won't be buying it now. Enjoy chief!"

And i walked. I didn't even bother asking someone else if they would extend some professional courtesy to another Con Exhibitor. It might of been an isolated incident and i'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but that's not the best first impression for a new customer.
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Richard McBain

Trolllord Games

Convention Coordinator

Executive Director - TrollCon, Winter Dark
richard@trolllord.com

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ALEA IACTA EST - THE DIE IS CAST

I still order most of my stuff through FLGS, with the exceptions being Pathfinder (subscription deal was too good to pass up) and my subscription to The Crusader. Once when I had a big purchase (all three d20 wilderlands books) I ordered on line and save $40 or so.
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Never throw rocks at a man with a Vorpal Sword!

Like I said, Cons don't do the store any justice.... at all. You have to be there, at the store. They are a totally different entity there, which is a shame because, in person (and I bet you didn't talk to the owner...) they are great; sucks that they'd get an undeserved reputation because one person decided to be an asshat hairball. Of course, the "employee" may have just been trying to see if you'd do something "crazy" to get the CE discount - guess it didn't work.

I guess this is a theoretical question for me, since I don't have an LGS that does right by me. I tried a couple of times and the girl who worked there was unfriendly and rather put out, if I asked her some questions because she was babbling away on her cell phone. Haven't been back there in several years.

But anywho, if I had a good LGS, I still would order more things online. It's cheaper and for me who spends more that he should, I've got to try and save some cash.

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Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

I buy almost nothing online as far as books or dice go. I prefer to support the two fine local establishments I am lucky to have. However, I occasionally do a trade with NKG to get rid of stuff I no longer want, and I occasionally browse the want-ads at various forums. And as far as minis go, the local market simply does not support them. Not the retailers - they've tried and tried to make a go at them, but always fail because no one buys. So I buy all of my minis online nowadays.