Cosmology: Core or Campaign Specific?

[DangerDwarf]

With the cosmology changes looking apparent in the upcoming edition of D&D it seems to have ruffled some feathers.

I admit, it kind of irritated me at first too but then I got to thinking about it.

This applies for any game as well.

Does the cosmology, layout of the planes, etc need to be defined in the core of the game or should it be left for campaign books to describe for each individual setting. Unique to each world.

[bighara]

With very few exceptions, I think the setting can handle it. Where it's left to the system, usually it's a game where the setting is deliberately integrated into the overall game. Warhammer FRP is a good example of this. WH just ain't WH without the Old World.

[DangerDwarf]

bighara wrote:
With very few exceptions, I think the setting can handle it. Where it's left to the system, usually it's a game where the setting is deliberately integrated into the overall game. Warhammer FRP is a good example of this. WH just ain't WH without the Old World.

I agree there. Games that are setting specific should include a core cosmology.

[SoulCatcher78]

I think there's two things that seem to have folks up in arms about the cosmological changes.

The first would be the relaxing of alignment rules removing the need for the Wheel and it's oppositional set up.

The second is there is no longer a need for the Planescape setting (at least in it's previous incarnation) since it was heavily based on the power of belief and how the planes interacted.

A game should have a cosmology that makes sense and is cohesive across different settings but most gamers will take what they want and leave the rest behind anyway. Unless you're a huge planescape fan, the changes in story have little effect on the game. Some of the settings (FR/Eberron/Greyhawk) have a well defined cosmology already so it's going to be fun if they try to shoehorn their version of the multiverse into those molds (read: disaster).

Making Asmodeus a diety will have some ripple effects since he apparently gained his status because he killed A god somewhere in the pre history of the game. Those of us who remember the witch hunts of the early 80s are probably the most against this change (IMO) since it's just asking to be questioned by those outside of the game.

Just my 2cp.

[Jyrdan Fairblade]

I seem to be in the minority (for now) of thinking that the core cosmology should be part of the core rules. But I'm also extremely wary of the new planar cosmology, judging from what I've heard. I also didn't like the planar set-up of Eberron at all.

The planar setting of D&D is, to me, one of the core elements of the game, just as much as the 10' spiked pit trap, dragons, and intelligent swords. It's a weird universe, and that's it's charm. It was also, like Spelljammer, the meeting ground for many other settings.

[serleran]

C&C has no cosmology, allowing the CK to develop it as they see fit, as they need it, if they need it. This is how games that do not rely on such things should be done, since it allows total customization and "realism." Only mentions of things are needed, really, such as "there's an elemental plane, or four (for all we know in C&C, all elementals come from the same place...), and some place that gives certain types of undead more nastiness..." but it should not be mandated and confined. I, for one, don't want someone else's personal beliefs intruding on my game.

[CharlieRock]

Even within some settings with preset cosmology I like a little leeway. Like ,say, Hyboria (Conan land of REH). It has a few established deities and a general chronology (between the sinking of Atlantis and the rise of the sons of Aryas) but otherwise very flexible. I could make Crom have a sister goddess and no one would know the wiser. (by the way, she is hawt )
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[gideon_thorne]

Setting, simply because each game group should define how mythology works in their own campaign world.

Such a philosophy is contrary to having such information appear in generic core game books.
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[CharlieRock]

Though, (and this being the best place to state so) I would love to see a C&C specific cosmology.

Why? I am a setting collector. I have six for D&D, and a stack of other games just for the setting (Judge Dredd for example).

I have read that Wilderlands is perfect for C&C. It is on my list. But, more is better.
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The Rock says ...

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[DangerDwarf]

CharlieRock wrote:
I could make Crom have a sister goddess and no one would know the wiser. (by the way, she is hawt )

I'm envisioning her now.

[DangerDwarf]

DangerDwarf wrote:
I'm envisioning her now.

Ok, done envisioning.

Dude. You're right, she IS hawt!

[CharlieRock]

DangerDwarf wrote:
Ok, done envisioning.

Dude. You're right, she IS hawt!

man, im still laffin'

its starting to hurt lmfao
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The Rock says ...

Know your roll!

[Omote]

Setting specific for sure. I like the idea that all games worlds are vastly unique, and feel unique to the players. That is a great way to have playters remember certain campaign apart from one another; their uniqueness. Of this uniqness, the deific powers almost always make a large impact on a setting.

-O
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[anonymous]

With a mind to attracting new players who may pick up the core rules and play the game with nothing else, everything you need to run a game should be in the core, including a minimal default setting. If you have clerics and spells that deal with plnar cosmolgy as part of the core, than someone playing the game "out of the box" using just the core should have everything they need for their buy in price for a core. Assuming people will make up their own or already have a core is a disservice to attracting new players. Many of us have been playing for 20+ years but the game needs to attract and keep those who will play for the next 20, the next group of us so to speak. It doesn't need a full fledged treatise, but a skeletal framework and a glimpse that can fill the needs, much like the appendix in the 1E HB and the MM entries for the demons and devils. You didn't need more than that but I was sure glad that stuff was there. However, I always considered Deities and Demigods (and Gods, Demigods, and Heroes before it as part of the core.

-M

[Rigon]

I think cosmology should be a part of the setting, not the core.

R-
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[Tadhg]

Rigon wrote:
I think cosmology should be a part of the setting, not the core.

R-

For most of the settings that I've seen, I'll concur.
[Agree with the WH assessment above. ]
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[Catweazle]

While it may be OK to sketch in a few strokes as an example, the cosmology should reflect the setting, not the core rules. Hell, I generally have five elements, for example. Or four elements and seven tinctures, depending on who you ask.
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[Mythmere]

Should be part of the core rules to give a "baseline" for the meaning of alignment and for the operation of certain spells. But it shouldn't be wrapped too deeply into the game, because cosmology is an area where almost everyone does a "campaign specific" one at some time or other.

Also, there have been several campaigns I've started where I just didn't want to think about cosmology yet at the beginning of the campaign, already being occupied with geography, inn names, writing an adventure, etc. It's helpful to have something to fall back on when it's not a focal point for the campaign.

[Dyne]

It doesn't really need a core cosmology, just a few examples of possibilities and let people pick and choose for their game. For example, the core rules should list ideas about elemental planes, "ghost" planes (or ethereal realm), heaven/hell, etc. Same thing goes with deities: have generic archetypes and qualities, and let the GM/setting fill in the details.