Savage D&D

[DangerDwarf]

I post this with Savage Robby in mind but any other Savage World fans with experience, please do chime in.

Since I've picked up the SW rules, I ran one game set in Greyhawk and it was pretty cool. But what I want to know, how much of the D&D feel can you keep in a long running SW game. Does is still remain D&Dish or does it have another feel all together.

I'm considering in the future running a fantasy SW campaign, but I like my fantasy to keep that D&D feel. Has anyone done any work on extra spells or magic items?

Just thought I'd check around.

[Philotomy Jurament]

Have you seen Advanced Dungeons & Savages?
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Lost City Campaign Log

[DangerDwarf]

Holy crap, no I had not. That's pretty damn sweet.

[SavageRobby]

Joel did a great job on Dungeons and Savages, and I used it as a springboard for my own Old School Savage treatment.

In my view, SW and D&D are way different beasts. In my first SW campaign (Evernight, SW's fantasy-with-a-twist setting), I didn't try to bring any of my strict D&D sensibilities into SW; I tried only to import as much of the flavor as I possibly could. And it was a lot of fun, truth be told. But it wasn't D&Dish. One thing to know is that stock SW has a different power curve. Novice characters are fairly competent (especially since their Wild Cards), and Legendary characters can still get killed by a lucky goblin with a knife. You know that "sweet spot" they talk about in 3e? Thats where SW is the entire time.
After reading Advances Dungeons and Savages, I was possessed to try to make SW even more like D&D than Joel did. (And like I said, I think he did a great job.) But the spells lacked a little, I thought, and I wanted a more comprehensive treatment of classes. So first, I put together a much bigger spell list, based off of powers culled from various SW sources - all the official setting books, some of the licensed settings like Shaintar and Runepunk, and some of the toolkits (I think I have a good 90+ powers or so). Then with thosee powers, I built a matrix of D&Dish spells for Wizards, Clerics and Druids, plus a power table for Monks. Spells were leveled by Rank (Novice, Seasoned, Veteran, Heroic, Legendary, and a new one I added called Mythic). The spells correlated to a SW power, but often with restrictions or additions. I'll post an example following this.

What I've been doing recently, actually, is the reverse - merging what I like of C&C's old schoolness with the pieces I like from Savage Worlds - Bennies, Adventure Cards, Hindrances, Edges (to a limited extent - mainly just background ones at character creation) and the combat round sequence, including cards for initiative. Our test adventured worked out really well, and we're making characters for a full fledged campaign tomorrow night.

[SavageRobby]

Here are an example of some spells. These are the list of Novice level Wizard spells. The first is the spell name, followed by the power in parentheses (if different than the spell name), and if there is any other modification of the power, its listed after that.
Novice Wizard Spells

Bigby's Interposing Hand (Barrier) - Barrier is 1" wide.

Blinding Flash

Blur (Deflection)

Burning Hands (Burst*) - Only affects up to 2" away

Darksight

Detect Good/Evil (Detect Arcana*) - Detects good and evil only

Detect Magic (Detect Arcana*) - Detects magic only

Dig (Burrow)

Elemental Manipulation

Farsight

Fascinate (Dazzle)

Feather Fall

Identify

Ignite

Jump (Leaping)

Knock (Open)

Lesser Fog Cloud (Obscure)

Light

Mage Armor (Armor)

Mage Shield (Arcane Shield)

Magic Arrow (Guiding Hand)

Magic Missile (Bolt*) - Shoots single 2d6 bolt only.

Magic Weapon (Smite)

Mend (Mend*) - Minor items only, up to 3 PP.

Minor Illusion (Illusion*) - Visual only.

Minor Phantasms (Phantasms*) - Visual only.

Monster Summoning, Lesser (Conjure Animal*) - May summon small or normal animal(s). Max 2 PP total.

Mystic Servant (Bodyguard)

Nystul's Magical Aura (Magic Aura)

Ogre's Strength (Raise Trait)

Ray of Enfeeblement (Lower Trait*) - Can lower Strength or Vigor

Resist Elements (Environmental Protection)

Scare (Fear)

Sleep (Slumber)

Spider Climb (Wall Walker)

Tenser's Floating Disc (Telekinesis*) - Creates 2" diameter disc that follows caster, supports up to 10 lbs per Spellcasting die.

Tongue Tied

Undetectable Aura (Conceal Aura*) - Hides magical aura only

Wizad Lock (Lock)

Wizard Eye (Wandering Senses)

In in case you're seeing powers and going, "WTF?", I like I mentioned before, a fair numbers of the powers I used for my spell lists aren't in the SW rulebook.
For reference, there are 40 Novice level Wizard spells, 36 Seasoned, 24 Veteran, 12 Heroic, 8 Legendary, and 2 Mythic. For Clerics there are 20 Novice, 12 Seasoned, 10 Veteran, 6 Heroic, 4 Legendary and 2 Mythic. Druids have 20 Novice, 12 Seasoned, 10 Veteran, 6 Heroic and 3 Legendary (no Mythic yet).

[DangerDwarf]

Pretty interesting stuff.

I've always been a gamer who enjoyed my fantasy gaming with classes, levels and hit points. But I think I may diverge from that in the future, at least give it a shot.

My experience with SW has been great. I love the extreme flexibility of the system and want to see what I can do with it in D&D-ish gaming. I mean, c'mon a SW DL:R monk totally kicks the ass of a D&D monk in cool factor. The ability to make magic wielding sword swinging characters without multi-classing...it sounds kinda nice.

I don't know if I'll try to emulate D&D with it, but more than likely will use it as is in a D&D setting and see what happens.

[Treebore]

I don't remember having seen AD&S before either, thanks guys.
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[SavageRobby]

I love Savage Worlds. Have I said that before? I returned to gaming after an almost decade long hiatus, and played 3x. Took me 2 years to realize how much I hated it. I almost stopped gaming again, but I found SW and fell in love. Its a great system. I love wounds, I love fatigue, I love Bennies, I love how everything works together, but at the same time is very flexible and open to house rules.

That said .... I think the biggest weak point of SW is "classic" fantasy magic. SW magic is very tactical by nature - just look at the power costs vs. durations. And Trappings are a really cool idea, but the stock execution isn't well explained (or is purposefully left open for the GM/player to hash out - which is fine).

But other than that, I think you're spot on about SW. Its got the flexibility that modern D&D is striving for with its hodge podge of multi-class rules, without the muck of rules. Its got a serious "cool" factor to it, but it is more of "I saw it in a movie" kind of cool than "look I'm a videogame" cool.

Here is also an interesting thing about SW. Its the only system I've played that could really accommodate a Fellowship of the Rings type party - that is, a party with Legendary, Veteran and Novice characters. You could easily pull that off with all characters feeling like they contributed, and without the insta-kill factor that would happen if you tried to merge 1st and 10th level D&D characters together in a party.

Anyhow, enough babbling. Best thing to do with SW is to run it. Its reads great, and it plays even better.

[Birthright]

Funny this thread should come up. I have just purchased the Explorer's Edition of Savage worlds and have be musing over how well a Birthright game would run under savage worlds.

I think a wholesale conversion of Savage worlds to D&D style magic kind of defeats the purpose, so if I ever did run a Birthright game with Savage worlds, I'd stick with the savage worlds rules as closely as possible, only adding in new edges / powers as ABSOLUTELY necessary to fit the setting.

On the other hand, I've read REALLY good things about the 50 fathoms setting/campaign.

[Emryys]

Definately enjoying the Savage Worlds!
Have you seen Savage Beasts by Zombie Nirvana Games... free pdf!
The same guys who are bringing the C&C set to Fantasy Grounds VTT have a SW ruleset for FG...
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[SavageRobby]

Birthright wrote:
I think a wholesale conversion of Savage worlds to D&D style magic kind of defeats the purpose, so if I ever did run a Birthright game with Savage worlds, I'd stick with the savage worlds rules as closely as possible, only adding in new edges / powers as ABSOLUTELY necessary to fit the setting.

The rule of thumb you'll hear consistently on the Savage Worlds boards is to convert the flavor, not so much the mechanics. And especially when you first start out, definitely play the rules as written. They are simple, but there are some really cool subtle nuances you'll find.

(I broke those rules for my Old School conversions, but that was after a lot of practice with the system.)

Quote:
On the other hand, I've read REALLY good things about the 50 fathoms setting/campaign.

I can tell you, 50 Fathoms rocks. Very Pirates of the Caribbean, only cooler (and with no sissy-boy).

[Breakdaddy]

Savage Worlds is teh rocksxorz, and AD&S is pretty frikkin' fire. I havent gotten a chance to run it but it's a good read. Let us know how you fare with it if you choose to run it for a few sessions.

[Dagger]

I just bought the Deadlands Reloaded setting for SW and it is fascinating! It's a really cool take on the wild west with magic and all kinds of awesome stuff.

[bighara]

I'll tell Joel you like AD&S. I was one of the original playtesters (he's my brother). It was a lot of fun, but sometimes there are rules in AD&S that exist only to simulate 1e, not for any "real" purpose.

Gameplay was very enjoyable though. One of my favorite PCs was in that game. Kiltaggle the gnome cleric. He almost never attacked and usually hung back in combats, but he was devastatingly effective in buffing PCs and debuffing monsters.

[SavageRobby]

BH - Do you still have your Evernight gallery up somewhere?

[Realmsbard]

Emryys wrote:
Definately enjoying the Savage Worlds!
Have you seen Savage Beasts by Zombie Nirvana Games... free pdf!
The same guys who are bringing the C&C set to Fantasy Grounds VTT have a SW ruleset for FG...

OK I don't get it. What is Fantasy Grounds?

Is it for online play?

Is it a system?

Help an old newbie understand.

Realmsbard
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Listen to the song. For in the tale there may be truth.

[DangerDwarf]

SavageRobby wrote:
BH - Do you still have your Evernight gallery up somewhere?

I seriously want to run Evernight some time.

Looks like pure awesome.

[DangerDwarf]

What about the "Way of the Brave" melee damage from DL:R? I'm leaning going that route for my fantasy game too or does it up the lethality too much in a melee heavy game?

[Emryys]

Realmsbard wrote:
OK I don't get it.

What is Fantasy Grounds?

Is it for online play?

Is it a system?

Help an old newbie understand.

Realmsbard

It's one of many software packages for playing RPG's over the net!
Ususally there is a whiteboard, chat interface and dicerollers.
ICoN VTT convention has some screen shots of some popular ones as well as a comparison chart of the various features...

A few people around here are familiar with this kind of play and are running games of C&C
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[Realmsbard]

Emryys wrote:
It's one of many software packages for playing RPG's over the net!
Ususally there is a whiteboard, chat interface and dicerollers.
ICoN VTT convention has some screen shots of some popular ones as well as a comparison chart of the various features...

A few people around here are familiar with this kind of play and are running games of C&C

Thanks for the reply.

Realmsbard
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Listen to the song. For in the tale there may be truth.

[bighara]

"Way of the Brave"? Not sure what that is.

Savage Worlds has an "exploding dice" rule called "aceing" where you re-roll and add on maximum die rolls. It adds a lot of fun to the game.

I'm thinking of adding a rule like that to damage in C&C, but more along the lines of WFRP's rule "Ulric's Fury." With UF, if you roll max damage, you roll to hit again (kinda like confirming a crit in 3e). If the 2nd to-hit is a success, then you re-roll and add your damage. As long as the die comes up max, you keep adding & re-rolling (only confirm the to-hit the first time though).

re: Evernight pix. The website isn't there any more, but I probably still have the images. I'll try to find them and upload them to imageshack and post a link.

EDIT:

(click on thumbnails for bigger pix)

Sea cave fight w/Trolls


Tomb Fight


Fight with Harpoon Tree

[DangerDwarf]

The Way of the Brave was a change to the melee damage system introduced in DL:R to make melee a bit more deadly. Instead of a longsword doing str+3 damage it does str +d8.

I think they made the change official in the latest explorer edition.

[bighara]

DangerDwarf wrote:
The Way of the Brave was a change to the melee damage system introduced in DL:R to make melee a bit more deadly. Instead of a longsword doing str+3 damage it does str +d8.

I think they made the change official in the latest explorer edition.

Ah,

I haven't played SW in a while. Mr. Joel has been converting some of WorldWorks modules (Dinas Fordd, Something Below, etc.) to the SW stats lately, so he's probably more up on the rules changes.

[SavageRobby]

We haven't used the Way of the Brave yet, and probably won't switch in our current Savage Midnight game, but I will probably use it in whatever my next Savage campaign is. From what I remember from the SW boards, I think it comes out to an average of 1 point more damage per hit. But it is more punishing to lower strength characters than the stock system, and higher strength characters have an even bigger advantage (since IIRC weapons with higher damage dice are limited to the Strength die of the wielder).

[DangerDwarf]

On a somewhat SW related note. My son (6 years old) has declared he wants to be resident Deadlands badass, Jasper Stone, for Halloween.

[DangerDwarf]

One thing I wish they'd do though is quit revising the core rules and actually come out with some print products. I hate PDF's.

I really want the Deadlands plot point book.

[SavageRobby]

I'm pretty sure the Deadlands books are in the pipeline. It is their flagship product, even more than SW itself.

I get the impression from the SW folks that the PDF products aren't print substitutes - that is, if they didn't produce them as PDFs, they wouldn't produce them at all. I do with they'd find a good POD solution, though.