No Class

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DangerDwarf
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No Class

Post by DangerDwarf »

Or, no classes to be perfectly honest.

In over 20 years of gaming, I've always enjoyed the class and level system. I know its not exactly realistic, but heck, archetypes are fun. Here lately though my tastes are beginning to change.

I'm finding that the class/level system is beginning to irritate me some. I'm wanting to do some classless gaming, maybe take a little break. I've enjoyed classless systems for my modern gaming, just never was a fan of it in FRPG's. So, I think I'm going to step back from AD&D, BECMI, and C&C for a little bit and give some classless, HP'less FRPG'ing a try.

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Re: No Class

Post by gideon_thorne »

Why not look into Lejendary Adventure?
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Post by Omote »

Have fun with that. Try some Dark Ages Cthulhu!

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Re: No Class

Post by Omote »

gideon_thorne wrote:
Why not look into Lejendary Adventure?

The best suggestion you could get, especially staying the in fantasy genre. Skill based systems rock the hizzy.

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Re: No Class

Post by DangerDwarf »

gideon_thorne wrote:
Why not look into Lejendary Adventure?

Doh. I forgot all about that. I think its time I finally pick some of the LA stuff up.

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Post by serleran »

Or, I can send you a document on how to play C&C without classes.

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Re: No Class

Post by Jyrdan Fairblade »

The LA Essentials Boxed Set rocks.

I've never felt down on classes, but have enjoyed classless gaming - though I think a lot of them still essentially have a class-type organization. Just look at the Storyteller system - in Vampire, the clans still provided the same archetypal categorization as classes.
DangerDwarf wrote:
Doh. I forgot all about that. I think its time I finally pick some of the LA stuff up.

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Re: No Class

Post by gideon_thorne »

DangerDwarf wrote:
Doh. I forgot all about that. I think its time I finally pick some of the LA stuff up.

*chuckles* I feel your pain, actually. I went away from class systems a long time ago and take every opportunity I can to bust up archetypes. ^_^

Now.. here is where I sort of reverse myself and offer a suggestion I pointed out in another thread.

I turn your attention to page 88 in the M&T book where it talks about using XP to 'fuel' magic items that emulate class abilities.

No reason why that same system cant be turned into a means to break up the linear class system into a method where one just buys and develops abilities instead of levels.

Think about it.
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Post by DangerDwarf »

Right now we're giving Savage Worlds a shot in fantasy gaming, but I'm going to pick up the LA Essentials box.

I'm not so sure that it's the class thig that is irritating me the most right now, it may be hitpoints.

I'm ready for some deadly combat that can have a dragon kill a PC in a single massive bite if it rolls good enough. Where it doesn't take 23 shots with a crossbow to bring a PC down, etc. I'm wanting some wound levels, condition monitor, whatever.

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Post by DangerDwarf »

I think I'm wanting to move outside of my normal FRPG comfort zone right now too. I'm hammering out details for a homebrew setting with tech levels far beyond my norm for fantasy gaming, where I usually don't like to even see flintlocks.

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Post by gideon_thorne »

DangerDwarf wrote:
I think I'm wanting to move outside of my normal FRPG comfort zone right now too. I'm hammering out details for a homebrew setting with tech levels far beyond my norm for fantasy gaming, where I usually don't like to even see flintlocks.

*chuckles* That, I can offer suggestions on. My own setting is like a fantasy Star Wars, complete with interstellar travel.
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Post by DangerDwarf »

gideon_thorne wrote:
*chuckles* That, I can offer suggestions on. My own setting is like a fantasy Star Wars, complete with interstellar travel.

Normally I'd shudder at that sort of FRPG, but that kind of thing sounds interesting to me these days. I not going for tech levels that high, but probably more of a world that reached similar tech levels as us then suffered a world changing apocalypse. Some tech is still aruond, just not overly common. Nations reverting to fuedal kingdoms, elves (the real fey kind) coming across from the fey world and raiding human settlements, etc.

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Post by gideon_thorne »

DangerDwarf wrote:
Normally I'd shudder at that sort of FRPG, but that kind of thing sounds interesting to me these days. I not going for tech levels that high, but probably more of a world that reached similar tech levels as us then suffered a world changing apocalypse. Some tech is still aruond, just not overly common. Nations reverting to fuedal kingdoms, elves (the real fey kind) coming across from the fey world and raiding human settlements, etc.

Well.. 'tech levels' that high in the sense of magically powered 'gates' and stellar solar sail powered ships. There's a cartoon called Treasure Planet which is pretty close to what I am talking about.
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Post by DangerDwarf »

Okay, I gotcha now. Sounds pretty cool.

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Post by Treebore »

Try some Legend of the 5 Rings. Not exactly HP less, but it is more concerned with what category of damage you are in. The HP are just divided up over these categories, and the more you increase your Earth, the slower (hopefully) you progress through these categories. Each category gives a greater penalty to your attacks.

Deadlier, and pretty much classless too, more a use of different terminology by calling them schools and ranks.
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Post by RakintheBlue »

LA is great, but will take a huge mind shift away from class based games. My biggest suggestion is to clear your mind when reading through it.

Not only that, when first reading through it, I suggest trying doing what it says, instead of trying to fill in holes that might not be there, but in your mind they are.

Although I have yet to have an Avatar death in my 3 sessions, it has come very close a few times, I mean down to one roll. The game is deadly, the monsters and traps are even deadlier, and teamwork is a 100% must.

Another suggestion that I can see that would help someone understand the game is to start off making an avatar, first thing, period, before you even read the book. Just take the book go to chapter 1 and just follow the directions to a T.

Last thing I can comment on LA vs other RPG's is that when it was created it was created as a game to play, not a simualtion of life. Sometimes things just don't make too much sense but their stil used as tools for the game in order to help the game less of a headache to run. (Like how speed encompasses both mental and physical speed but is still used for disaster avoidence, does it make 1000% sense, not really, but it really works in the sense that it's a game, and I feel it really takes nothing away from the playability of the game or the game itself.)

Please excuse me if I sound like I'm not giving you enough credit as a gamer to figure all these things out, it's only some of the things I and others have went through while learning LA, and sometimes it just hurts to see people get turned off from this great system just because they "don'y get it"
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Post by mordrene »

Have you ever played cthulhu, warhammer fantasy or traveller? cthulhu is a great skill based system. It can easially be adapted to whatever genre you want. also check these fre rules out.
http://www.goblinoidgames.com/gore.htm

gore is basically the call of cthulhu game. check it out.

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Post by Moorcrys »

I'd also suggest that if you like the Lejendary System after reading through the essentials -- check out the internet and see if you can purchase the full rules that are now out of print. The essentials rules are like playing AD&D with only the figher, magic-user, cleric, and thief... and it doesn't look like the Trolls re-release of the system is happening for quite some time. There are usually multiple copies floating around at reasonable prices, and well-worth purchasing in my opinion.
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Post by DangerDwarf »

mordrene wrote:
Have you ever played cthulhu, warhammer fantasy or traveller? cthulhu is a great skill based system. It can easially be adapted to whatever genre you want. also check these fre rules out.
http://www.goblinoidgames.com/gore.htm

gore is basically the call of cthulhu game. check it out.

I've got the first edition of Warhammer laying around here somewhere. Pretty cool stuff.

I think right now I'm going to stick with Savage Worlds, its just such a fast and easily customizable system. I've got several thigns in mind that I can easily do with that system.

Definitely going to put LA Essentials on order though to check it out.

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Post by Traveller »

mordrene wrote:
Have you ever played cthulhu, warhammer fantasy or traveller?

Somebody call me?

*rereads*

Dammit, you were referring to the game. In reality, Traveller isn't classless. They may be called careers or professions, but in the end, they're still classes. The best thing Traveller has going for it is the character development system that comes after selecting the career/profession.

Cthulhu is classless, since everyone is an investigator who will eventually go insane when confronted with the horrors of the mythos.

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay isn't classless. It has professions that you start off as, and from there you can select the adventuring profession. Yet it's still a class system.

I recommend using Tri-Stat, as its point-buy game mechanics allow the creation of any character, and the game system is light enough to move along swiftly.
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Post by rabindranath72 »

DangerDwarf wrote:
I'm ready for some deadly combat that can have a dragon kill a PC in a single massive bite if it rolls good enough. Where it doesn't take 23 shots with a crossbow to bring a PC down, etc. I'm wanting some wound levels, condition monitor, whatever.

Warhammer FRP, 1e

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Post by rabindranath72 »

Traveller wrote:
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay isn't classless. It has professions that you start off as, and from there you can select the adventuring profession. Yet it's still a class system.

Hmmm...I do not quite agree that WFRP careers are really classes. They are more non-exclusive collections of skills and backgrounds. Nothing (rules-wise) prevents a character from acquiring any ability.

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Post by pactmaster »

For classless I run Iron Gauntlets from Precis Intermedia (was Politically Incorrect) Games. Fun, easy, classless. The core book, companion and a few .pdfs have given me an awesome game syste,. The Atomik Grimoire add-on is a superb magic system.

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Post by Omote »

Iron Guantlets is pretty neat. I have to agree. Overall, not my game of choice, but a good new(er) system.

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Post by DangerDwarf »

Hmmm. I've never heard of Iron Gauntlet, might look at it too.

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Post by jman5000 »

for semi-classless, sort of skill based, no HP fantasy role playing, look into The Riddle of Steel.

best damn combat system ever! just don't expect to live
you build a character by selecting packages and assigning priorities to different characteristics (do you want him to have a lot of skills, a lot of martial prowess, magic, a different race, then you pick accordingly)...

Might not be quite the departure from traditional roleplaying either. enjoyed a successful campaign in TRoS for 6 months, and was very satisfied how it turned out.

Cheers,

J.

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Post by SavageRobby »

Well, you know me - I'm a Savage Worlds guy. I've integrated a lot of Savage things into my C&C game. I think it works great for fantasy (although I think the magic system needs some tweaking).

If you want to make a HP-based system (or any system, really) it a lot more deadly, just make all damage rolls open-ended: you roll the highest # on a damage die, roll again and add them together (and if you get the highest # again, roll again ... and again ... and again).

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Post by CharlieRock »

Traveller wrote:
I recommend using Tri-Stat, as its point-buy game mechanics allow the creation of any character, and the game system is light enough to move along swiftly.

Tri-Stat doesn't really have a Fantasy setting, however there are several fantasy modules for some of their games. BESM had http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=s ... ookid=3550 "Dungeon"

and http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=s ... ookid=2353 "Fantasy Bestiary". Tri-Stat made a "core Rulebook" for their line of games for under $10. It pretty much has the bare bones without the contextual flavor and setting their gamebooks have.

Too bad GoO went under.
Edit: Oops. I guess Tri-Stat did make a primarily fantasy RPG. Here http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=s ... ookid=4998

Anytime I think of 'classless' RPG I think GURPS. I'm hoping GURPS makes a 4th Ed. book for their Autoduel series. (Autoduel being the RPG of CarWars). I don't have much in the way of 4th edition GURPS, but that would change faster then instant if they made Autoduel. I still use all my 1st edition GURPS books.
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Post by rabindranath72 »

DD, if you are into fantasy with a bit of apocalyptic and world of darkness, without classes, and a lethal system, you might give a look at Tribe 8 by DP9: www.dp9.com

There are even fast-play rules, just to give a glimpse. I suggest you take the first edition of the books. They might be cheaper, and IMO are better in any case.

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Post by serleran »

There is also BRP, Amber, anything Unisystem, and Shadowrun.... sure, SR has "archetypes" but they aren't really "classes" as much as pregenerated characters. It also has the infamous "priority" system that many seem to find appealing, ripped straight out, and modified from, MechWarrior.

Though, if you want fantasy, go with Earthdawn.

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