BLOG TIME!

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:14 am

The newest blog by Troll Guy Steve is up, and there is a lot of good information in it! Much to rap about.
http://trolldens.blogspot.com/

-O
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:09 am

Glad I wasn't holding my breath.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:15 am

C'mon... good hints though!!!

-O
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Geleg · Post by **Geleg** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:29 am

yeah, I'm encouraged. Sounds like the CKG is back in the front of the priority list, as is the C&C Basic. Since I'm looking forward to both, I was very pleased with Stephen's blog posting. Keep going, Troll Lords! Crack those whips! [a fiendishly clever Devo reference ....]

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:43 am

Hey wait a minute!!! Not sure why, but the Devo mention triggered a HUGE synapse in my overworked noodle.

Here it is ~ Blondie - and their hit song/video Heart of Glass!! Check TLG module 1801*

Oh yeah, I got Steve's number (get it 1801)!

Huge Blondie fan also. My fav = Rip her to Shreads.

Thanks for blogging!

Rhu!
*TLG module Heart of Glass.
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cleaverthepit · Post by **cleaverthepit** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:46 pm

new entry

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:05 pm

The Troll Lords have entered the age of blogging....

Heaven help us..
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:45 pm

on the blog entry.

Thanks Davis.
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jman5000 · Post by **jman5000** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:00 am

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

that blog has totally shattered my hope for the ckg. no matter how much you call it "optional", because it's a 3 book paradigm that is being followed, for the most part, these will become more than just optional rules.

sounds like a 2nd edition to me

sounds like feats to me

sounds awful.

why oh why oh why oh why must the tendency always be towards complexity.

totally, utterly, and absolutely distraught.

J.

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:13 am

jman5000 wrote:
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

that blog has totally shattered my hope for the ckg. no matter how much you call it "optional", because it's a 3 book paradigm that is being followed, for the most part, these will become more than just optional rules.

sounds like a 2nd edition to me

sounds like feats to me

sounds awful.

why oh why oh why oh why must the tendency always be towards complexity.

totally, utterly, and absolutely distraught.

J.

Hehe... you could always think of it being like the nicotine patch. For those who just kicked the 3.x habit to switch to C&C, they'll need a bit of help and that 'optional' crunch you see will help.

I'm looking forward to it... but not for the reason I listed above!
M
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:20 am

jman5000 wrote:
no matter how much you call it "optional", because it's a 3 book paradigm that is being followed, for the most part, these will become more than just optional rules.

Not in my game it wont, if I say it wont. And not in anyone else's game who's gonna use their own rules no matter what an optional book says.
I'm here to tell everyone, its ok to colour outside the lines.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:23 am

Besides, its actually in the section on "tweaking the classes" for all those people who feel it necessary to create 439875439805876439758643865843762 new classes for what the archetypes already cover. Why bother when you can swap one for one and be done with it? Seems overkill to have a complete book of lame stupidity when you can have a book that says: if you want to make these things different, here you go....

Its not a "2nd edition" and it sure as hell is not a d20-like thing.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:44 am

serleran wrote:
Besides, its actually in the section on "tweaking the classes" for all those people who feel it necessary to create 439875439805876439758643865843762 new classes for what the archetypes already cover.

But I want my half orc courtesan dammit!
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:47 am

Then play one. Wow. A courtesan is simply a harlot, generally trained in courtly affairs... so, instead of riding a horse, you knight subclass, you get riding, umm... guess?

Naw, really, it could be done with rogue no problem, or assassin, or bard, or monk, or any other. What do you see this character having? Aside from STDs, anyway.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:50 am

serleran wrote:
What do you see this character having?

The perfect straight man in some odd character named Serleran.
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Troll Lord · Post by **Troll Lord** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:59 am

jman5000 wrote:
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

that blog has totally shattered my hope for the ckg. no matter how much you call it "optional", because it's a 3 book paradigm that is being followed, for the most part, these will become more than just optional rules.

sounds like a 2nd edition to me

sounds like feats to me

sounds awful.

why oh why oh why oh why must the tendency always be towards complexity.

totally, utterly, and absolutely distraught.

J.

Never fear Jman. Didn't I remark something about maintaining the game's origins in brevity while I am at the head of the Crusade?
What Davis' blog post does not put forward is the presentation of the book. Like you I don't like the 3 book paradigm that RPGs have become. Really you ONLY need two books to play this game. The game is so very simple it doesn't need more.

But that very simplicity is its beauty, for it allows any participant to build upon or take away from the game to make a game more like their own.

The presentation of the game will basically follow three thematic approaches for each rules 'expansion'. There will be multiple ways to do one thing, there are at present three methods of creating multi-classes in the game. Each will be given equal presentation as well as a discussion on how to use the Siege Engine to build your own multi-classes. So the reader cannot walk away saying 'this is official rules' but rather, here are a bunch of different options for multi-classing.

Another for instance, I've been tasked with the role playing approach to what has commonly become known as skills . . . in the book its the section that deals with "extra abilities" . . . and I'm working on explaining how you can actually ROLE PLAY for your extra abilities, your extra tracking skills, or bonus to hit giant class or diplomacy etc etc . . . Davis is working on common sense approach to using the existing skills within the Siege Engine and Casey on an actual set of skills to pick and choose from. Which is the official? None. There are none.

The whole book is being written with the 'instructional' manual in mind. The only sections your going to be able to flip open and read actual official game aid stuff are the sections that have the weather chart etc etc.

Its late, and I"m a bit tired, so I'm not sure I'm making sense. But never fear that we are very aware that its impossible to 'take away' from a game once its official, so we are being very careful in our approach.

Steve
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cleaverthepit · Post by **cleaverthepit** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:06 am

plz read friday afternoon entry

Joe Mac · Post by **Joe Mac** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:41 pm

I welcome lots of new ideas in the CKG. Maybe I'm just a cranky curmudgeon gamer, but after 27 years of this stuff, any rule in any RPG book I crack open is 'optional' as far as I care!
My attitude is if someone doesn't like the way I run a game, or tweak a system, they can sit in the GM's seat next time, and be the recipient of bitching and moaning...

Geleg · Post by **Geleg** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:30 pm

Quote:
after 27 years of this stuff, any rule in any RPG book I crack open is 'optional' as far as I care!

QFT.

I like all of what I hear. I fully embrace the 'optionality' of the planned CKG. I'm certain there are things that will quickly become core for me, and other things which will make me say 'meh'. But, as a rules junkie, I can't wait to make those choices.

G

Ghost_Face · Post by **Ghost_Face** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:09 pm

jman5000 wrote:
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

that blog has totally shattered my hope for the ckg. no matter how much you call it "optional", because it's a 3 book paradigm that is being followed, for the most part, these will become more than just optional rules.

sounds like a 2nd edition to me

sounds like feats to me

sounds awful.

why oh why oh why oh why must the tendency always be towards complexity.

totally, utterly, and absolutely distraught.

J.

Uhm...I'm not seeing the problem. This is nothing like a 2nd edition (at least from what's been posted on the blog). It sounds more like an Unearthed Arcana style book. Options to add or exclude dependant upon ones style of play.

As far as complexity goes...C&C, as presented, is a pretty simple game. Now that the base rules have been established (and are in no way being officially altered), why is it wrong for TLG to expand their potential audience through optional rule add-ons? It seems to be the best of both worlds and makes the game appeal to a wider market. I personally enjoy both types of games (streamlined & more complex), and if C&C can give me both, I say more power to them. I have both new players (who I could use just the basic rules for) and long-time players (who I could see appreciating a higher level of "complexity" as they play more.). In the end it just seems like a win/win situation. Not really understanding the criticism.

jman5000 · Post by **jman5000** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:22 pm

Thanks steve, Davis...

I have no problem with optional rules.

now, I haven't seen the "official" title of the CKG, so perhaps there is a sub-heading of "optional rules to enhance your game" or something like that. All I do know is the title of "Castle Keeper Guide" indicates some level of authoritive proclamations.

But what really initially troubled me was thinking about my beloved modules that TLG pumps out.

do you or do you not include these options in the modules (my guess not, because it's optional), then, when you play with all these "options" tacked on, how much longer does it take the CK to get the module ready?

Modules are supposed to be fast, little effort, quick to play. if I have to do lots of extra stat munging to get the module to work with my enhanced rules players, then C&C has violated 1 & 2 of the above.

There are so many hundreds of things that can be discussed in a CKG that enhances the game that doesn't require adding crunch to the core classes

Cheers,

J.

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:40 pm

jman5000 wrote:
But what really initially troubled me was thinking about my beloved modules that TLG pumps out.

do you or do you not include these options in the modules (my guess not, because it's optional), then, when you play with all these "options" tacked on, how much longer does it take the CK to get the module ready?

Modules are supposed to be fast, little effort, quick to play. if I have to do lots of extra stat munging to get the module to work with my enhanced rules players, then C&C has violated 1 & 2 of the above.

There are so many hundreds of things that can be discussed in a CKG that enhances the game that doesn't require adding crunch to the core classes

Cheers,

J.

I'm also very fond of the modules that TLG has been putting out but I don't think that any of the options will really affect the modules one way or the other. I mean, why would it?

Just because some of the core classes could be changed wouldn't change the effect of the module. Critters will remain critters... puzzles and traps won't change. Things will have a Challenge Level which gets tagged on to the Challenge Base no matter what that Base is. As far as NPCs are concerned, I don't see why the writers would deviate from the core PHB. If there's a NPC character, they never go into details beyond stats, primes, hp, equipment, class, level, and race since that's pretty much all you need.

I don't know much more than you do at this point. I expect the CKG will be really cool but will it really have a dramatic impact on how I do my game now? Who knows.

M
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cleaverthepit · Post by **cleaverthepit** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:41 pm

blog up

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:12 pm

Cool Davis... very cool.

I eagerly await this tome regardless of the title. Thanks for taking the time out and responding to our various comments.

M
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:34 pm

Blog time huh? I guess it's not a blog as much as it is a reposnse to recent entries. Eh, I'm not sure what all the fuss is about with the CKG. The theme and the model of what the CKG would be has been known for the better part of 2 years.

Eh, ALL optional rules. I don't think I've even heard it would be any different.

-O
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:58 am

I've fiddled with the game since it was released. All the CKG is to me is a possible way to enhance the game after I have run out of ideas. Like many here I have already worked up my own advancement past 12th level, changes to classes and spellcasting that fits the game I want. I may use some of the CKG rules if they appeal to me or as springboards for my own ideas. I look more forward to the content on the whys and wherefores of the SIEGE system than optional rules.
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Jungger · Post by **Jungger** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:23 am

I just wanted to say that when I first read the blog, I felt very much as J-man did. Thanks for trying to clear up some confusion. I am still a little concerned but I will buy the CKG (or whatever youll call it) and check it out.

It seems to me that C&C was created to capture the old school feel of the game and it doesnt make sense to me that you would suddenly change gears.

Now, if only people would leave me alone so me and my bros could get a game in

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:02 am

Jungger wrote:
I just wanted to say that when I first read the blog, I felt very much as J-man did. Thanks for trying to clear up some confusion. I am still a little concerned but I will buy the CKG (or whatever youll call it) and check it out.

It seems to me that C&C was created to capture the old school feel of the game and it doesnt make sense to me that you would suddenly change gears.

Now, if only people would leave me alone so me and my bros could get a game in

Play in our on line games. Its live via SKYPE and we use OpenRPG to show positions, etc...

Lots of fun. We've been going for over 6 months now. Weekly.
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pactmaster · Post by **pactmaster** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:33 am

I am not sure why some people are upset by the description of the book or its being the "third" book. I will buy it and I am not too distraught over a "three book paradigm". I will purchase the CKG and M&T II and probably any other C&C book put out by TLG.

C&C is such a customizable and low cost rpg that I am not sure why anybody gets worried about it. Buy it if you want to, don't buy the book if the idea scares you.
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:50 am

The only thing I am confused about is that people still see C&C under the three book system. It has been stated and known for some time you only needed the PH and M&T to play. Maybe that is something I take for granted since I have been around awhile and something TLG needs to get out more is that C&C is a two book system not a three book system.
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