Guide of Guides Part 2

Fizz · Post by **Fizz** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:02 pm

I just read Stephen's latest blog, a followup to his comments on the CKG. I'm rather surprised at how much concern and/or disapproval there apparently is over it.

It's been my understanding for some time that the CKG was going to contain optional rules. The keyword being `optional'. It's been said time and time again that the CKG is not a core book. And the description of the book on the Troll's website seemed to be consistent with what Stephen described.

If the Troll's were WotC, they'd have produced a dozen splatbooks by now. C&C has remained simple, and there is nothing saying that optional rules can't be simple too- just different.

So i'm just surprised by all this discontent.

-Fizz

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:10 pm

I too do not see what the fuss is all about. The CKG will be completely optional. Take it or leave it. No TrollPolice will come to anyone's home and force the CKG in a game. So?

Harry Joy · Post by **Harry Joy** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:13 pm

There is discontent? My group is downright stoked for the CKG.

Link to the blog, please?

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:19 pm

http://trolldens.blogspot.com/

-O
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Harry Joy · Post by **Harry Joy** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:22 pm

Damned meanie. Why won't he let his little girl help type?

Meh for the complaints. There will always be complainers, like moi, complaining about 4th Edition.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:25 pm

What's 4th edition? Never heard of it. Matter of fact, never talk about it.
-O
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:39 pm

Omote wrote:
What's 4th edition? Never heard of it. Matter of fact, never talk about it.
-O

That will be the next printing of the PHB, right? Since we are on the third.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:43 pm

Yes, since we all know a printing means a new edition, so, D&D is really on something like Edition 38768.

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:53 pm

serleran wrote:
Yes, since we all know a printing means a new edition, so, D&D is really on something like Edition 38768.

They probably just went with 3 for shorthand and space saving purposes.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:12 pm

Yeah, didn't want to be all Games Workshoppy and call it D&D~40K...

Aladar · Post by **Aladar** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:21 pm

O.K. Now I am even more stoked for the CKG!
I like a few option rules.
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Philotomy Jurament · Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:31 pm

I'm not "discontented" about the CKG, but I can't say I'm interested, either. Critical hits? Feats (by another name)? Armor soaking damage? Level advancement to 24? None of this rings my bell. About the only thing that sounds interesting is the breakdown of the SIEGE engine, but I'm not going to buy a whole book for that.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:41 pm

I'm looking forward to the CKG, but I am having such a good "ol school" time doing my own thing I have no idea how much of the CKG I'll use. That, in itself, is part of the fun for me.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:16 pm

Yeah with all of us who wanted the CKG so desperately, I hope TLG is not dissappointed in slower then anticipated sale. Why slower sales you ask? Well, even though TLG has been telling us for a long, long time now that the CKG is mostly optional rules, with the recent "offical" summary by Davis people are complaining about it's contents. Um... DUH. I really think everybody wanted another 1e DMG which, as far as I can tell, was never what the CKG was intented to be.

Deal with it.

-O
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Philotomy Jurament · Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:33 am

Omote wrote:
...[we already knew] the CKG is mostly optional rules...[but now] people are complaining about it's contents. Um... DUH. I really think everybody wanted another 1e DMG which...Deal with it.

In my case, I was interested in the CKG when I first heard about it (and at the time, assumed it would be a "core book"), became less interested when I first heard it would be mostly a collection of optional rules, and had that loss of interest confirmed by the most recent "curtain lifting" from the blog.

There's certainly no rancor or disappointment on my part, though (i.e. I don't think "the CKG sucks" because I'm not interested in it). There's nothing to "deal with;" I'm just not in the market for a book of optional rules. Who knows, though, there might be some as-yet unannounced content that will change my mind.
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:41 am

The book certainly isn't going to be for everyone. No one should feel obligated to buy it. It would be nice, but thats ok if you don't want too.
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:43 am

gideon_thorne wrote:
The book certainly isn't going to be for everyone. No one should feel obligated to buy it. It would be nice, but thats ok if you don't want too.

I'm buying it! I may even buy two which isn't so odd considering I have three copies of the PHB and M&T.

M
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:15 am

Oh you'll all buy it.

-O
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:38 am

Omote wrote:
Oh you'll all buy it.

-O

I will too. Like Moriarty it will likely be two or 3 copies. One of each printing.
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:09 am

Philotomy Jurament wrote:
I'm not "discontented" about the CKG, but I can't say I'm interested, either. Critical hits? Feats (by another name)? Armor soaking damage? Level advancement to 24? None of this rings my bell. About the only thing that sounds interesting is the breakdown of the SIEGE engine, but I'm not going to buy a whole book for that.

Well, the old style D&D in the boxed sets only had two books. The DMG and the PHB. The monster manual was a section of the DMG. Only AD&D made it a seperate book.

So basically I'm soaking in memory fluid using only two books for a game again.

I'm going to get the CKG anyway. I imagine the players would be looking at it as much as I would just to see what optional rules they like the sounds of.

Random encounter tables couldn't hurt though.
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cuchulainkevin · Post by **cuchulainkevin** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 5:48 am

I'm looking forward to the CK Guide. Particularly the race as classes info and the class deconstruction.

Perhaps big block letters saying "Optional" should be placed on front of the book so people don't get confused.
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:31 pm

cuchulainkevin wrote:
I'm looking forward to the CK Guide. Particularly the race as classes info and the class deconstruction.

Perhaps big block letters saying "Optional" should be placed on front of the book so people don't get confused.

Nah... that might deter from the artwork. How bout a BIG RED Sticker with OPTIONAL written on it. That way, the gamer seeing it should clue it and just peel the sticker off!

M
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rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:44 pm

If it will contain some guidelines/rules for wilderness adventures, morale, retainers, and all the nifty things which are in the Expert book, I will be satisfied

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:57 pm

rabindranath72 wrote:
If it will contain some guidelines/rules for wilderness adventures, morale, retainers, and all the nifty things which are in the Expert book, I will be satisfied

oooooo, retainers
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rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:38 pm

CharlieRock wrote:
oooooo, retainers

Yes! Hirelings and retainers, one of the coolest things in Classic D&D. That, and the rules for morale, which are fast and easy to handle.

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:45 pm

rabindranath72 wrote:
Yes! Hirelings and retainers, one of the coolest things in Classic D&D. That, and the rules for morale, which are fast and easy to handle.

It was. That and stocking up your stronghold and all that stuff.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:37 pm

I'm so going to buy at least one, possibly 6.

Philotomy Jurament · Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:50 pm

CharlieRock wrote:
I imagine the players would be looking at it as much as I would just to see what optional rules they like the sounds of.

Yes, that's probably the case (and a very good argument for changing the name of the book). Wizards of the Coast markets their "options" books to the players, and that's seems to work very well, sales-wise.

Actually, while most of the content doesn't sound interesting to me, at all, it's probably a stroke of genius to include things like feats, et cetera as official options. The 4E news/previews are generating a large amount of "this ain't D&D" from many people (check out the Necromancer boards and the Paizo boards, and even some threads on EN World). C&C could pick up a lot of sales if it can capture those gamers. Providing official optional rules that make C&C the natural "hey, it's still D&D and still provides the much-lauded 'options' of 3.X" will help with that. (The most common criticisms of C&C from the 3.X end of the gaming spectrum are "lack of options" and "non-unified XP progression.")
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Benoist · Post by **Benoist** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:27 pm

CharlieRock wrote:
It was. That and stocking up your stronghold and all that stuff.

I agree. Those were among my favorite parts of Classic D&D. The whole stronghold, fief building, retainers etc thing. That made high levels feel truly distinct from low levels. The scope of adventures for the PCs changed radically, and it was good.