They Charge for This?!?

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:17 pm

That's likely due to them not wanting somebody using those cool new 133t p0w3rz against the player characters (not fun enough for 4). I read a quote from one designer to that effect of that regarding their 'aggro holding' abilities. Not because the idea was silly, but because they didn't want monsters holding PC's aggro.
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yell0w_lantern · Post by **yell0w_lantern** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:19 pm

Aggro?

There's farming in 4E?

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:33 am

yell0w_lantern wrote:
Aggro?

There's farming in 4E?

No, but they have fiddled with rules concerning aggro management.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:01 am

CharlieRock wrote:
That's likely due to them not wanting somebody using those cool new 133t p0w3rz against the player characters (not fun enough for 4).

Yeah, I read that in the "4ll ur g4me r b3long 2 us!" section.

Actually, didn't read any deign philosophy or goals that indicated that.

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:14 am

DangerDwarf wrote:
Yeah, I read that in the "4ll ur g4me r b3long 2 us!" section.

Actually, didn't read any deign philosophy or goals that indicated that.

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/co ... donedFor4e

Quote:
We want DMs to make NPC fighters and paladins, and it would be really dumb if the DM had to impose a threat or aggro mechanic that dictated who the PCs had to attack.

Basically, they tried it ,didn't like it, changed it, but the latest previews looked like it was back on.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:20 am

Yeah, I've read that before. Just didn't see anything in there to indicate that the reason they where going back to the design philosophy of:
The parameters and basic game mechanics for 4th Edition player characters are not identical to the rules and powers used by the world's monsters and nonplayer characters

Was because of:
them not wanting somebody using those cool new 133t p0w3rz against the player characters (not fun enough for 4)

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:34 am

DangerDwarf wrote:
Yeah, I've read that before. Just didn't see anything in there to indicate that the reason they where going back to the design philosophy of:
The parameters and basic game mechanics for 4th Edition player characters are not identical to the rules and powers used by the world's monsters and nonplayer characters

Was because of:
them not wanting somebody using those cool new 133t p0w3rz against the player characters (not fun enough for 4)

Seems most logical to me. Why go back to previous design ideas unless there was a reason. One reason they dumped aggro powers (though still looks like they still use them under a different name) was because they don't want monsters pulling player aggro. One step leads to the other, for me.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:47 am

CharlieRock wrote:
was because they don't want monsters pulling player aggro.

Yeah, because like they said, the idea is retarded. It is, and they realized it...

Nevermind.
Rawr-rar-rar.....WotC!

4e The debil!
Worst game ever!
heh.

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:38 pm

DangerDwarf wrote:
Yeah, because like they said, the idea is retarded. It is, and they realized it...

Nevermind.
Rawr-rar-rar.....WotC!

4e The debil!
Worst game ever!
heh.

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Dragonhelm · Post by **Dragonhelm** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:32 pm

You know, I think putting out this book is a good idea from WotC's perspective. They need to make a transition from 3e to 4e, and in this interim period, it's hard to do that and to keep interest up. So what better way of doing that than putting out a preview book?

D&D is a brand, much as C&C is a brand. The approaches are different, but D&D is a big enough brand that it will get the corporate treatment. Personally, I find design philosophy to be quite interesting.

My advice is to thumb through it, and if nothing catches your eye, then put it back. I, for one, am looking forward to getting my copy.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:43 pm

Dragonhelm wrote:
You know, I think putting out this book is a good idea from WotC's perspective. They need to make a transition from 3e to 4e, and in this interim period, it's hard to do that and to keep interest up. So what better way of doing that than putting out a preview book?

D&D is a brand, much as C&C is a brand. The approaches are different, but D&D is a big enough brand that it will get the corporate treatment. Personally, I find design philosophy to be quite interesting.

My advice is to thumb through it, and if nothing catches your eye, then put it back. I, for one, am looking forward to getting my copy.

I just prefer saving my money for the PH and DMG, which will definitely tell me what 4E is going to be like, rather than spend money on a book that tells me what it might look like 6 months from now. If the stuff in these books were definitely a look at what 4E definitely IS, I would likely buy them, but since it is still subject to major changes between now and June, its a waste of money in my book.

So I'll wait for the actual rules.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:19 pm

I finished up the book last night. If for no other reason, it is worth it for the fluff alone.

Some really good stuff in there that, even if I never play a single session of 4e, I'll definitely be stealing for my game.

The Eladrin for example are what they are using for high elves. They are making elves a lot more fey which is something I can really, really get behind:
Most Eladrin communities exist close to the ever shifting border between the Feyworld and the world. The city of Shinaelestra, for example, shifts onto the world at each midnight, replacing a glade deep within the Howling Forest for a few hours before returning to the Feywild with the first light of dawn. Jenn-Tourach crosses over onto a mountaintop for only a single day at midsummer.

See, stuff like that I find extremely sweet. Also there is:

Even the beautiful palaces of the eladrins can be welcoming in the daylight but places of terror when the sun fades from view.

They are no doubt really switching some things up, but specially in this case, it is in a way I can appreciate.

Buttmonkey · Post by **Buttmonkey** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:08 pm

I'm out of the loop. Would someone be willing to explain what aggro is?

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:10 pm

It is what 4e is inducing all over the web.

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:00 pm

Buttmonkey wrote:
I'm out of the loop. Would someone be willing to explain what aggro is?

Aggro is aggression. You can use it like a verb; "I aggro'd that room" and it means you recieved all the aggression from the room. Or like a noun "I took all the aggro" meaning every attack was on my character.

It is just the shortened form of the word.
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Buttmonkey · Post by **Buttmonkey** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:36 pm

CharlieRock wrote:
Aggro is aggression. You can use it like a verb; "I aggro'd that room" and it means you recieved all the aggression from the room. Or like a noun "I took all the aggro" meaning every attack was on my character.

It is just the shortened form of the word.

Thank you!

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:11 am

DangerDwarf wrote:
I finished up the book last night. If for no other reason, it is worth it for the fluff alone.

Some really good stuff in there that, even if I never play a single session of 4e, I'll definitely be stealing for my game.

The Eladrin for example are what they are using for high elves. They are making elves a lot more fey which is something I can really, really get behind:
Most Eladrin communities exist close to the ever shifting border between the Feyworld and the world. The city of Shinaelestra, for example, shifts onto the world at each midnight, replacing a glade deep within the Howling Forest for a few hours before returning to the Feywild with the first light of dawn. Jenn-Tourach crosses over onto a mountaintop for only a single day at midsummer.

See, stuff like that I find extremely sweet. Also there is:

Even the beautiful palaces of the eladrins can be welcoming in the daylight but places of terror when the sun fades from view.

They are no doubt really switching some things up, but specially in this case, it is in a way I can appreciate.

Very nice stuff there and I see this stolen for my games.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:11 pm

Yeah, some of the fluff I've read thus far is actually pretty good stuff. Even the section on humans was a very interesting read with their take on human frailty and corruptability.

One thing that surprised me....

The Dragonborn.

This was a race I wall all set to hate. Seriously, do we need these goobs? After reading the flavor text, background, concept? It really, really pains me to admit this.....

they sound kinda cool.
I hate admitting that but it is true. I like the idea they came up with for this race.

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:46 pm

DangerDwarf wrote:
Yeah, some of the fluff I've read thus far is actually pretty good stuff. Even the section on humans was a very interesting read with their take on human frailty and corruptability.

One thing that surprised me....

The Dragonborn.

This was a race I wall all set to hate. Seriously, do we need these goobs? After reading the flavor text, background, concept? It really, really pains me to admit this.....

they sound kinda cool.
I hate admitting that but it is true. I like the idea they came up with for this race.

I think they added that character race due to the popularity of the half-dragon characters from D&D3. Every group seemed to have had one or more in the team.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:49 pm

CharlieRock wrote:
I think they added that character race due to the popularity of the half-dragon characters from D&D3. Every group seemed to have had one or more in the team.

Yeah, which I was dead set to HATE them. I mean really, really hate them.

Cool write up though. The Dragonborn Fighter sketch at the beginning of the books is pure awesome too.