RIP HD DVD

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:20 pm

Looks like it's over. Personally I'm glad that the format wars are over.
HD DVD gives up.
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:36 pm

Julian Grimm wrote:
Looks like it's over. Personally I'm glad that the format wars are over.
HD DVD gives up.

Both a good thing... and a bad. Even though in some ways I prefer the HD-DVD format (and notably the ease of converting existing DVD manufacturing process to HD DVD), on the one hand I'm glad it's over. On the other hand, it could easily mean that DVD's days are numbered when Blu-Ray might force it's way in as the new standard as a video disc. No reasons to try and undercut pricing either with the exception of trying to convert a DVD market to Blu-Ray.

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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:45 pm

About time, really, seeing as they have this great love affair with not telling you you need a HD TV and a special cable to use it, all for a whole lot more than expected. It also means that when I order something, I'm going to get a DVD I can use, since I don't have, nor want, a HD DVD.

Always seemed rather silly and stupid, to me, but, I also don't own a HD TV, so I guess I really never bothered...

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:01 pm

s' funny... I was just listening to something about this on the radio. And one company giving up doesn't mean anything. There's still some pretty heavy hitters working with the HD thing.

Personally, I cant see why both can't be had? Competition is a good thing.
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:14 pm

Wal-Mart's decision to back Blu-Ray only is a big hit as well as Toshiba pulling out of the market. And while I agree that competition is a good thing I think that historically there can only be one standard of video playback. Otherwise Betamax would've been around longer.

Looks like Microsoft may be the last big player left with HD DVD with the Xbox 360 but the 360 is predicted to go to second place at the end of the year.
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Buttmonkey · Post by **Buttmonkey** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:05 pm

Julian Grimm wrote:
Otherwise Betamax would've been around longer.

What are you talking about? For the low-low price of $14,760 you, too, can own the Sony J30 Multiformat Analog and Digital Betamax Player:
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/245241.html

Betamax lives!

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:41 pm

That was...Interesting
I do wonder if this will be like the VHS vs. Betamax war where the better format lost out.
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Orpheus · Post by **Orpheus** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:25 am

Julian Grimm wrote:
Wal-Mart's decision to back Blu-Ray only is a big hit as well as Toshiba pulling out of the market.

Funny. I read that bit about Wal-Mart's decision to only carry Blu-Ray on Thursday or Friday and said, "Well that ends that."

pactmaster · Post by **pactmaster** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:01 am

Julian Grimm wrote:
That was...Interesting
I do wonder if this will be like the VHS vs. Betamax war where the better format lost out.

Do you know why the better format lost out? The porn industry. Since duplication via VHS is cheaper Betamax lost, the same is expected to hold true for the new competition. Any decision a company makes is insignificant to what the porn industry decides.
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:19 am

pactmaster wrote:
Do you know why the better format lost out? The porn industry. Since duplication via VHS is cheaper Betamax lost, the same is expected to hold true for the new competition. Any decision a company makes is insignificant to what the porn industry decides.

Well, I'm not so sure about that. Because of the high quality recording of Betamax tapes, you would only get about 2 and 1/2 hours or so - the length of your average movie.

VHS low quality recording allowed hours of taping - and people wanted to tape 3-4 hours of prime time or maybe stack up lots of TV episodes and such.

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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:22 am

Regarding the HD/Blu ray technology, I'm sure to pass for many years until prices plummet. From what I've seen, it's absolutely not worth the price for me to switch over for a long time.

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pactmaster · Post by **pactmaster** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:29 am

Rhuvein wrote:
Well, I'm not so sure about that. Because of the high quality recording of Betamax tapes, you would only get about 2 and 1/2 hours or so - the length of your average movie.

VHS low quality recording allowed hours of taping - and people wanted to tape 3-4 hours of prime time or maybe stack up lots of TV episodes and such.

The tale that the porn industry chose VHS over betamax was ongoing before the internet. If you have ever known anyone who assembles and copies certain types of movies for distribution (I have known two, one in the US and one in Japan), it is more cost effective to put movies onto VHS, yes the quality is not as good, but the price is kept lower.
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Harry Joy · Post by **Harry Joy** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:40 am

pactmaster wrote:
Do you know why the better format lost out? The porn industry.

Not true. I was in the record business then, Sound Warehouse, and had a large video department. What killed Betamax was price and title availability. It got to the point that by the middle of the '80s, the only titles I could get on Betamax were Sony/CBS movies. But there was always plenty of porn, and also children's movies.

Betamax was the far superior format, and in fact, long after it disappeared from retail outlets you could still buy it from production supply companies. We used it heavily in film school, well after it had gone from the record/video store I worked at.

As for HD DVD, well, I was early in the DVD revolution. Bought my DVD player in 1997. Bought a nice teevee to go along with it, too, so I wouldn't have to route my DVDs through my VHS machine to view them. But, I stopped. Got off that bandwagon. Simply stopped caring. And when my new in 1997 teevee becomes obsolete next year, guess it'll be my stash of old DVDs I watch.

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:40 am

pactmaster wrote:
The tale that the porn industry chose VHS over betamax was ongoing before the internet. If you have ever known anyone who assembles and copies certain types of movies for distribution (I have known two, one in the US and one in Japan), it is more cost effective to put movies onto VHS, yes the quality is not as good, but the price is kept lower.

Heh, well of course VHS/Betamax tapes were way before the internet.

And I have no doubt that porn production on tape was getting it's start over 8/15 millimeter reel to reel.

But before that, I believe the popularity of VHS taping for the average consumer (who would have been a very small percentage porn consumer) is what drove the preference and ultimate popularity of VHS.

And most people then didn't care about high definition quality of tapes - only a quality that was as good as a TV show broadcast.

Now - I will say this, when the internet took off, pornography and computer games did indeed drive software advances/hardware performance/internet sales/dot coms/high tech video graphics and online sales and website speed and performance.

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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:45 am

Harry Joy wrote:
Betamax was the far superior format, and in fact, long after it disappeared from retail outlets you could still buy it from production supply companies.

Indeed. Super Beta Hi-Fi was as good as video disc and DVD. I used to plug my Super Beta player into my stereo and of course had a huge (at that time) 22" color monitor for home theater effects. They were fabulous.

I bought many of my Beta movies from that online movie club company and so got some very good pricing, but ultimately even they switched over to VHS (and offered members tons of discounts to do so!!).

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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:24 am

I've decided that the digital tv switch will only go as far as the converter box for me. I have a problem with paying for TV then having to still watch commercials. It's almost as big a racket as online only RPG's IMNSHO.

As for HD vs Blu-ray, I was waiting until there was a winner in the fight before deciding. Not that I am buying anytime soon. My DVD player works fine so why change?

That all said I now read this. I say that will happen when they can get this wonderful tech in my area which is about the time monkey's fly out of my ass. Until then there is still one dedicated movie buyer out there.
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pactmaster · Post by **pactmaster** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:09 am

Harry Joy wrote:
Not true. I was in the record business then, Sound Warehouse, and had a large video department. What killed Betamax was price and title availability. It got to the point that by the middle of the '80s, the only titles I could get on Betamax were Sony/CBS movies. But there was always plenty of porn, and also children's movies.

Betamax was the far superior format, and in fact, long after it disappeared from retail outlets you could still buy it from production supply companies. We used it heavily in film school, well after it had gone from the record/video store I worked at.

I don't think we are in disagreement here, just looking at the subject from different directions. Nobody said that one format had something that the other didn't, just that price (something we both mention) kept betamax from coming out on top. Either way, it doesn't matter much to banter about an old debate.
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Harry Joy · Post by **Harry Joy** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:11 am

pactmaster wrote:
I don't think we are in disagreement here, just looking at the subject from different directions. Nobody said that one format had something that the other didn't, just that price (something we both mention) kept betamax from coming out on top. Either way, it doesn't matter much to banter about an old debate.

No fair, damn it!!! I wanna fight.

angelius · Post by **angelius** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:48 pm

Sony has to recoup some money somewhere, they are getting killed with the PS3...
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Eisenmann · Post by **Eisenmann** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:41 pm

Julian, highspeed is coming faster than you might think. I live in the boondocks and it is available here edge to edge across the county. It's coming because wireless data/internet connectivity is piggybacking on 911 Emergency infrastructure meaning that providers don't have to take the time and money to construct an infrastructure that already exists.

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:13 pm

angelius wrote:
Sony has to recoup some money somewhere, they are getting killed with the PS3...

After the suck job they did on designing the PS2 the deserve a loss on part 3. I never thought I'd ever see a console seemingly designed on to break as soon as the 90 days expired.
Sorry, after owning two before I could get a third to actually work is a bit of a frustration for me.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:15 pm

I have a PS2 since the day of launch. No problems whatsoever. As for PS3, as of January 2008 PS3's sales are accelerating faster then the 360 and even the Wii.

-O
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Eisenmann · Post by **Eisenmann** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:26 pm

Sony is dreaming of sales numbers like the Wii's.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:27 pm

Agreed. You never know, maybe the PS3 can finally catch on.
-O
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:30 pm

Eisenmann wrote:
Julian, highspeed is coming faster than you might think. I live in the boondocks and it is available here edge to edge across the county. It's coming because wireless data/internet connectivity is piggybacking on 911 Emergency infrastructure meaning that providers don't have to take the time and money to construct an infrastructure that already exists.

The problem in my area, (Southwest Mo, the Niangua area to be exact), is that there is currently on company that does the lines for anything over dial-up in the area. Centurytel has DSL but the servers and other tech needed is expensive and they are slowly building the infastructure. Broadband is pretty much a no go right now. I used to keep getting mailers saying I could get DSL and when I called it was unavailable. After a 'put up or shut up' call to customer service they quit sending them to the areas DSL wasn't available.

Basically while there is a push to get faster service everywhere the money factor in poorer rural areas leaves this nothing more than a plan on paper.

What does this have to do with the discussion? With the prediction that downloadable media will kill hard formats there are still those that will buy the hard formats for nostalgia sake and wanting to own something that can be held in the hand not stored on a device to be wiped out at the first static electricity spike.
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:07 pm

Eisenmann wrote:
Sony is dreaming of sales numbers like the Wii's.

Seems I remember that the Wii was the surprise of this generation. Price point being a factor and it not being made strictly for hardcore video gamers. I know I want one over the Crashstation 3.
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Eisenmann · Post by **Eisenmann** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:07 pm

Julian Grimm wrote:
Seems I remember that the Wii was the surprise of this generation. Price point being a factor and it not being made strictly for hardcore video gamers. I know I want one over the Crashstation 3.

I was an early PS1 adopter. Got one the first day it was out - stumbled onto it at Toys R Us. I missed the PS2 all together. But wanted a Wii to unwind. Has thus far been the best console that I've ever had. It's a whole new video gaming experience. This time the marketing-speak is true.

Eisenmann · Post by **Eisenmann** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:10 pm

Julian Grimm wrote:
Basically while there is a push to get faster service everywhere the money factor in poorer rural areas leaves this nothing more than a plan on paper.

I live in a perpetually depressed area and the broadband is available because of a county initiative with private providers. I worked for a local ISP/WISP (Wireless Internet Service Provider) for several years. Highspeed in remote areas is quite feasible. Wireless is jumping over cable and DSL due to the limitations of those technologies. Cable and DSL are fantastic if you're not out in the boonies.

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:31 pm

Eisenmann wrote:
I was an early PS1 adopter. Got one the first day it was out - stumbled onto it at Toys R Us. I missed the PS2 all together. But wanted a Wii to unwind. Has thus far been the best console that I've ever had. It's a whole new video gaming experience. This time the marketing-speak is true.

I liked the PS1 to the point I still own one and still am collecting games for it. I chose it over the N64 due to it not being what I really wanted (I've owned 3 N64's and all were sold off except the last one which is with my oldest daughter). I initially liked the PS2 but like most early adopters was burned by laser failures on one, the same on number two and miraculously #3 which has had nothing but ps2 games run on it works. Amazing that a backwards compatable CD and DVD player only works if one type of disc is played on it.

I got a Gamecube after flirting with them one year for Christmas. It has seen more use than my other systems except my NES and SNES. After trying a Wii demo I'm hooked. So yeah they made a believer out of me.
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