Troll Lord Games

Surprisingly good.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/20080307a

Plus a compilation of links to other tributes you may or may not have seen.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

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Treebore wrote:
Surprisingly good.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/20080307a

Plus a compilation of links to other tributes you may or may not have seen.

It was very nice. Thanks for sharing Tree.

I'm torn. On the one hand, its nice WOTC did anything at all.

On the other hand....and maybe its just my cynical groginess here....but only 2 or 3 of those people seemd to talk like they knew anything about gaming. The others were general style comments like "He influenced my life and my career." Well, working at WOTC that's kinda a safe generalism now isn't it? Heck, Lorraine Williams could say the same right?
Never mind me, I'm just grumpy today. My planned GaryCon game fell through and I only got 2 players who could come over.
Mike "Old Dragon" Stewart
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Always remember, as a first principle of all D&D: playing BtB is not now, never was and never will be old school.- Tim Kask, Dragonsfoot

You a cynic? Say it isn't so!
Seriously though, I believe that WotC could in fact do much more to celebrate Gary than they have.
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Traveller wrote:
You a cynic? Say it isn't so!
Seriously though, I believe that WotC could in fact do much more to celebrate Gary than they have.

They had their main intro screen done in a similar fashion to the Troll Lords' page. They quickly compiled a nice video of people saying nice things about him. I think that with the short amount of time they had and given the deadlines I'm sure that they're under to prepare their new offering (ahem...) that they did a decent job. If within at least a year there isn't some other gesture made (a nice tribute in the forward to the new DMG or perhaps a "special" reissue of an OOP adventure, or something) then I'd say that you were right, but considering that it's only been a few days it seems to me that they've been respectful.

Where in my post did you get the impression I said they weren't being respectful?
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NOTE TO ALL: If you don't like something I've said, PM me and tell me to my face, then give me a chance to set things right before you call a moderator.
My small homage to E.G.G.

Traveller wrote:
You a cynic? Say it isn't so!
Seriously though, I believe that WotC could in fact do much more to celebrate Gary than they have.

...and that would be?
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Traveller wrote:
Where in my post did you get the impression I said they weren't being respectful?

Sorry. I didn't mean to imply (or apparently flat-out say ) that you didn't think that they were being respectful. I probably shouldn't have ended my post with that since it does appear that I was trying to say that though. I should've said that considering it's only been a few days it seems to me that they've done a decent job (or have done as much as can be expected) celebrating Gary.

Oh, and I like the downloadable tribute to Gary Traveller.

SpencerWright wrote:
...and that would be?

The OD&D rules, free for download. So people can see the original game for themselves, perhaps pick it up and play it for nostalgia's sake. Since the majority of the game mechanics have been replaced in the d20 abomination, I seriously doubt it would hurt Hasbro's bottom line to do it.
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NOTE TO ALL: If you don't like something I've said, PM me and tell me to my face, then give me a chance to set things right before you call a moderator.
My small homage to E.G.G.

Traveller wrote:
The OD&D rules, free for download. So people can see the original game for themselves, perhaps pick it up and play it for nostalgia's sake. Since the majority of the game mechanics have been replaced in the d20 abomination, I seriously doubt it would hurt Hasbro's bottom line to do it.

Hell, I'd go a step further and go as far as doing a special reprint of it... I mean, when TSR did the whole Silver Anniversary thing, they reprinted the Holmes rulebook. I'd settle with a reprint of some of the 1st ed stuff that bore his name but would never happen either.
M
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I would like to say that I have no intrest in disagreeing with anyone here. I was unhappy with WOTC's video tribute to Gary. It really seemed to me that the only person being sincere was thier webmaster(at least that's who I recall it was). Also he was the ONLY person to give condolences to the family. Remember the bottom line is they are a business. Not responding could have had possible repercussions to thier business. I also do not wish to see them doing any printed product as a memorial. Remember that WOTC would profit from this. Gary's death. Doesn't seem right does it? I don't mean to be pounding on WOTC but let's tell it like it is. To each his own.

K2h2m3 wrote:
...I also do not wish to see them doing any printed product as a memorial. Remember that WOTC would profit from this. Gary's death. Doesn't seem right does it? I don't mean to be pounding on WOTC but let's tell it like it is. To each his own.

You make a couple of excellent points and, though WOTC would invariably profit from special reprints, there is still a good thing to this. It would mean that his material could end up in the hands of someone who otherwise wouldn't be able to get it. It could expose their newer 'target' audience to a taste of something that they have been missing or at least bring about a better understanding and appreciation for the original game.

Traveller's suggestion of offering the OD&D rules for free is probably the best solution since WOTC wouldn't profit from it.

However, I realistically don't think this would happen anyway. The last thing they would want to do is confuse a their target customer base when 4th Edition is about to come out.

Just as an aside... this wasn't to be argumentative or anything -- it was purely the one benefit I could see from a reprint.

M
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"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

And you make an excellent point that I had overlooked. I could post more of my observations on the video but I would rather wait. BTW I have had the oportunity to respond with you on several issues. Your posts are always well thought out and respectful. For that I thank you.

The person I was thinking of was Bart Carroll and he is the D&D Website Producer.

K2h2m3 wrote:
And you make an excellent point that I had overlooked. I could post more of my observations on the video but I would rather wait. BTW I have had the oportunity to respond with you on several issues. Your posts are always well thought out and respectful. For that I thank you.

And I, in turn, thank you for your kind words.

M
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"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

I don't think Gary would want us nitpicking, second guessing, and belittling anyones tribute to anyone, let alone himself.

Gary liked to take people at face value. I like to try and do the same.

Everyones attachment to Gary varies. Some have very strong feelings for him, others only have some very vague feelings. Many don't even know who he is.

So lets just assume the tributes are made by people based on their degree of respect and love for Gary, and not try to say how they felt about him.

I mean how would you like it if someone came along and said your feelings for Gary were fake?

So lets show Gary enough respect to not prejudge people we don't even know.

More than enough of that goes on in this world as it is.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

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Fine enough with me Treebore,sorry.

K2h2m3 wrote:
Fine enough with me Treebore,sorry.

No problem. Its just that Gary didn't want us all hanging out and having fun only around the gaming table. He wanted us to do it all day long in our everyday lives. At least that is what I got out of what he said. So I think we just need to concentrate on living our lives happily and only get upset about things that threaten that.

Its a good outlook to have on life. Unfortunately it isn't an easy one to live up to.

Anyways, lets just give each other the benefit of the doubt.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

Well done tribute by WoTC. It's a safe bet to say anyone posting on this or similarly themed RPG message boards owes a lot to Gary and I'm happy they all found something nice to say about him. I'm sorry I never had the chance to game with him but feel blessed that I had the opportunity to speak with him about a variety of topics, however briefly. What a great guy he was.

Kudos to your fine spirit Treebore!; I salute you!
But after how WOTC treated Gary (and HIS D&D)over the past 8 years I have very little "open mindedness" left for them. Now if Hasblow sells WOTC to another co. I might give 'em another chance (assuming new management)... But I'm afraid not before.

BTW, to the web guy at WOTC; well said. He was one of the two I mentioned as (apparently) actually knowing what he was saying.
Oh, and I got my 1E AD&D game after all tonight! Its Sunday, but does it still count for GaryCon?
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Always remember, as a first principle of all D&D: playing BtB is not now, never was and never will be old school.- Tim Kask, Dragonsfoot

sieg wrote:
Oh, and I got my 1E AD&D game after all tonight! Its Sunday, but does it still count for GaryCon?

That's great, sieg.

I would think that starting with you and your game ~ every game after counts for GaryCon. And it will never end.
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Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

sieg wrote:
Kudos to your fine spirit Treebore!; I salute you!
But after how WOTC treated Gary (and HIS D&D)over the past 8 years I have very little "open mindedness" left for them. Now if Hasblow sells WOTC to another co. I might give 'em another chance (assuming new management)... But I'm afraid not before.

BTW, to the web guy at WOTC; well said. He was one of the two I mentioned as (apparently) actually knowing what he was saying.
Oh, and I got my 1E AD&D game after all tonight! Its Sunday, but does it still count for GaryCon?

After what I read and watched (gotta love those video blogs) about the recent con (D&D EXPERIENCE??) it seems to me they (the game designers at WOTC) feel they are doing the right thing for D&D.

Maybe they are, for the newest generation. All I know is what they are doing is not for me anymore. Plus I know of people my age who are excited about 4E and think its going to be great. It may well be, just not for me.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

True enough Treebore... I just remember WOTC being so interested in getting Gary's PoV and critique of 3E in '99 or so and when he gave suggestions/ideas he was totally blown off. Plus other things, but I don't want this to turn into a WOTC bash.

I'm sure you're right and the designers over there think they're doing what's best for the brand. But I can disagree.
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Always remember, as a first principle of all D&D: playing BtB is not now, never was and never will be old school.- Tim Kask, Dragonsfoot

My impression overall: a sincere tribute. Well done WoTC.

Sure, a few of the people didn't seem to have any strong affiliation with Gygax, but their comments were still portrayed respectfully. This may have some bearing economically regarding 4E, but that subject was tastfully avoided.

The webmaster definitely came across as the most sincere, but nobody seems to have mentioned the guy in the red shirt; "If you ever killed a monster and took his stuff, that was Gary..." etc. I thought he did an excellent job of showing Gygax's contribution to a company that has largely disavowed him.

In retrospect, if they had done this for purely economic reasons (and MOST people would turn to WoTC for a Gygax tribute I think, not knowing the history there), they could have easily slapped a "EXCITING, NEW, IMPROVED! D&D!! COMMING SOON!" at the end. But they didn't, and that says a lot.

Those are my 2 cents, anyway.
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Hi,

Over on the enworld board someone started a thread in the 4th forum asking for the new core books to be dedicated to Gary. Within an hour, Scott Rouse had posted and said done.

Now of course, we have no idea if that means a page in each book, a single line, or whatever. But I think it is a very nice gesture on their part. Especially considering that Gary was less than a fan of their work. They could have just left it at a video tribute, but if they do go ahead and have even a dedication of Gary in the new books, then I think that speaks well of them.

I thought the wotc tribute was OK, some of the people seemed sincere. My only thought was that it would have had more impact and meaning if the CEO or at least some executives had been part of it.

After all, every single one of them owe it to Gary for their jobs, salaries and the success of their sales and business.

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Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

Wolfram_Stout wrote:
They could have just left it at a video tribute, but if they do go ahead and have even a dedication of Gary in the new books, then I don't think that speaks well of them.

Hi Wolfram. I respectively disagree about a dedication.

As mentioned above, the company owes everything it is to Gary. 3X or 4X or whatever future version that may appear in the future, is a derivative (good or bad) of Gary's creation (Arnesson as well), so I believe the dedication is warranted and should be done.

Rhu.

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Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

Rhuvein wrote:
Hi Wolfram. I respectively disagree about a dedication.

As mentioned above, the company owes everything it is to Gary. 3X or 4X or whatever future version that may appear in the future, is a derivative (good or bad) of Gary's creation (Arnesson as well), so I believe the dedication is warranted and should be done.

Rhu.

Yeah, see here is the thing...I am an idiot. I was trying to find the right wording and didn't fully delete the line when I re-wrote it.

I was trying to say that I thought it spoke well of Rouse and the others to do a dedication of the books to gary. Sorry. I would like to blame my 2 1/2 year old son, but he was in another part of the house. So, I take the blame for not previewing what I wrote before submitting.

Thanks

Wolfram

Wolfram_Stout wrote:
Yeah, see here is the thing...I am an idiot. I was trying to find the right wording and didn't fully delete the line when I re-wrote it.

I was trying to say that I thought it spoke well of Rouse and the others to do a dedication of the books to gary. Sorry. I would like to blame my 2 1/2 year old son, but he was in another part of the house. So, I take the blame for not previewing what I wrote before submitting.

Thanks

Wolfram

Hehe, no problemo . . . thanks for the clarification. Incidentally, who is Scott Rouse? Some executive I assume.

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Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth