Troll Lord Games

I personally am glad to hear they are sticking with 3E and doing their own rules set to continue such support. Mostly because I think 3E will be easier to use for C&C than 4E. Why do I think that? Because I am going to have to throw out a lot more of 4E to trim it down into what I like for C&C.

Still, I will find out because Necromancer Games is going to be Paizo's "4E branch".

Anyways, very cool news.
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Link for proof?

serleran wrote:
Link for proof?

Go to Paizo.com and look at their news link.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

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Heh,

Certainly must've made some announcement - since both the paizo link and enworld are so busy I can get on lol.

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John "Sir Seskis" Wright

Ilshara: Lands of Exile:
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Hmm... the "Pathfinder RPG" operating under the OGL.

Interesting.....
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John "Sir Seskis" Wright

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High Squire of the C&C Society
www.cncsociety.org

*shrug* Why would it matter to me? Paizo can do what it wants.
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Peter Bradley

gideon_thorne wrote:
*shrug* Why would it matter to me? Paizo can do what it wants.

I just know you prefer we stay away from talking about 3E and 4E so threads don't turn into edition bashing.

However I am excited about this, and make the assumption others will find it of enough interest to make it worth posting.
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Treebore wrote:
I just know you prefer we stay away from talking about 3E and 4E so threads don't turn into edition bashing.

*chuckles* No, I prefer staying away from edition bashing, any edition bashing, full stop. I don't give a whit what edition or game folks want to talk sensibly about.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

Treebore wrote:
Still, I will find out because Necromancer Games is going to be Paizo's "4E branch".

What means this?

And, fwiw, I am thrilled by the news. I rather like Paizo, and feel like they were done wrong in such a major way and in such an rotten manner that's it's great to see them separate entirely from the new edition.

And if it turns out in the long run that this was the wrong choice for them, they can easily jump to 4th. But in the short term, they not only have books to publish for the next 10 months that should actually have legs, they can pretty much corner the market. Maybe it will give the other much smaller publishers a much needed boost as well.

Funny, really. I was speaking with someone about just this thing earlier today.

Harry Joy wrote:
What means this?

Necromancer's products are being published through Paizo.
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Peter Bradley

gideon_thorne wrote:
Necromancer's products are being published through Paizo.

This I did not know. Last time I bought one, WW still published them. Interesting.

Harry Joy wrote:
This I did not know. Last time I bought one, WW still published them. Interesting.

Yes, and Necromancer is going whole hog on 4E. They have already announced the Tome of Horrors for 4E.

So since Paizo and Necromancer are "partners", PAIZO will already have their feet in the 4E door if they ever need to step completely into the 4E world.

Necromancers partnership with WW has always been weird. Even the "City of Brass" boxed set was published with WW, but a number of modules were also published through Troll Lords and Kenzer. Like the Trolls printed Lost City of Barakus plus 3 or 4 other products; Kenzer published Diamond Fortress, the Listonshire module, and others.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

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This is an interesting business move. Wotc is giving up on 3.5 as their business model is evolving. Paizo just took the first move to secure the 3.5 loyalists (which there will a niche if not more). They are leveraging all the money spent on DnD over the last 10 years. This also protects Paizo's investment in the Pathfinder quest line. In addition, there are synergistic effects as they can sell the preexisting 3.5 materials as books or pdfs.

Basically they are protecting themselves on two fronts- continued sales of old material, and taking mind and market share on a potentially large market. Great move, and a good use of OGL resources. Wotc probably isn't upset about this, it frees them of any responsibility to 3.5 and it validates the idea of the SRD.

Hmmm... wonder if Paizo and the Trolls will support fan conversions of the Pathfinder adventures? Not that I'm offering to make the conversions... heh
In any case, I think this removes 4E from by list of games, except maybe the core books for possible lifting. Having C&C (including James' Wilderlands)' The Pathfinder RPG/3.75 and the Book of Experimental Might I think my gaming needs are covered.

It's interesting news to be sure. Frankly I'm glad... frankly it doesn't mean much to me. C&C is where IT'S at.

-O
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tenkar wrote:
Hmmm... wonder if Paizo and the Trolls will support fan conversions of the Pathfinder adventures? Not that I'm offering to make the conversions... heh
In any case, I think this removes 4E from by list of games, except maybe the core books for possible lifting. Having C&C (including James' Wilderlands)' The Pathfinder RPG/3.75 and the Book of Experimental Might I think my gaming needs are covered.

Actually, I seem to remember some discussion of official conversions being entertained. I don't know if or when that might ever happen.

I quite agree though. With C&C in hand, I'm already set. However, Monte's Book of Experimental Might and the Pathfinder project will make 3.x material interesting enough to either use or convert in one way or another. The direction that Green Ronin decided to take with True20 shows promise as well.

M
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Yep. It's interesting to see such significant companies opting to use alternate in house game systems based on the D20 OGL. I notice Goodman Games has also produced it's own fantasy roleplaying game system. Anybody know anything more about that?
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Matthew wrote:
Yep. It's interesting to see such significant companies opting to use alternate in house game systems based on the D20 OGL. I notice Goodman Games has also produced it's own fantasy roleplaying game system. Anybody know anything more about that?

If you're talking about Eldritch... it's not out yet. It seems to be rules lite and utilizes a system of dice pools of varying dice types. If you read the threads / developer notes for it, it'll give you a better idea. It looks cool enough... it got pushed back and should be out sometime in April. Same goes for the Quickstart.

M
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Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

Matthew wrote:
Yep. It's interesting to see such significant companies opting to use alternate in house game systems based on the D20 OGL. I notice Goodman Games has also produced it's own fantasy roleplaying game system. Anybody know anything more about that?

Actually, its more accurate to say that Goodman Games is printing Dan Cross's Eldritch rpg game system.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

That is probably the one I was thinking of. Sounds like a diversification, rather than a consolidation, then.
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It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after ones own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350)

Glad to see Paizo is sticking to 2e. I knew someone would and I am glad they have with their history of quality. Of course the only thing that does interest me is if they do the C&C conversions which is why I am watching. Necro;s 4e decision and non-interest in trying C&C has lost me as a customer. Paizo may pick me up if they continue with certain plans.
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How large is the C&C market? I'm not sure if companies not producing material for a small market merits a boycott. I honestly have no idea of any of the independent publishers size so don't take this as an insult.

If a company doesn't enter a market due to its small size that probably means it is not an efficient allocation of its resources. That also means someone else might be better suited to do the job, someone with lower overhead and payroll commitments, etc. Publishing to paper is a very expensive act, I published a few mini comics and it was not cheap.

Luckily, the internet is a perfect distribution medium, as is print on demand services for some material. I would think that someone could have a nice little cottage industry of porting things from one system to another. Yes, there are licensing issues, but that isn't always a deal breaker especially if the material is OGL.

What someone really needs to do is license the maps from Wotc for all editions prior to 4e. That would be a big business to a small firm. Maps are the first thing to disappear or wear away. Someone with access to a large scale printer and lots of mailing tubes could do it rather easily thru paypal or somesuch. Imagine if you will, the orginal Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms map without any folding creases or time damage. WAY too small a niche market for Wotc, but perfect for some trolls in say... Arkansaw.

tenkar wrote:
In any case, I think this removes 4E from by list of games,

Definitely!

I started reading the freebie, and it got me really excited! They removed/simplified most of the things I did not like about 3.x (skill points and combat, notably). I am almost sure I will buy the it

Julian Grimm wrote:
Glad to see Paizo is sticking to 2e.

Wow. I TOTALLY misread the press release.

Gotta say, loving all the nerd rage being generated over this. It's fun to watch from this side of the bench.

Harry Joy wrote:
Wow. I TOTALLY misread the press release.

Gotta say, loving all the nerd rage being generated over this. It's fun to watch from this side of the bench.

Where are the best seats? I gotta go get some popcorn!

papercut wrote:
Where are the best seats? I gotta go get some popcorn!

Here, I'll share!
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ENWorld. It's funny, seeing people saying they're ditching Paizo now. Some of the same ones who mocked people PO'd about WotC killing Dragon.

No surprises. There are never any of those in this business.

I took a look at the Pathfinder PDF this morning.

While the game is still too rules heavy for my taste, it really does go along way in streamlining the rules of 3.5 as well as eliminating the insane combo's and such.

If I had a choice between playing Pathfinder, 3rd edition, 3.5 or 4bortion - I would quickly choose Pathfinder.

Eric