Troll Lord Games

boxcornersdiety wrote:
I would rather have the Trolls focus on making solid, playable adventures and selling them at a reasonable price (<$10). I would rather they spent their time on editing, artwork, and quality writing and design than on perfect distribution and shipping out of their own office.

I'd just love to see products out, and on store shelves. I haven't seen a new Troll Lords book of any kind on my local shelves since last year, except for "Gord the Rogue" and I don't buy fantasy fiction. Don't tell me to buy direct. I did that once, and have no desire to go through that again. I'd listened to Bill's tales of woe and thought it was "just him", until it happened to me the ONE and only time I tried ordering direct.

Just sell me some damned books, 'K?

I think there is a disconnect between experiences here -- I've ordered direct (picked up the phone, called, talked to Steve, got my order in about 5 days), ordered through Amazon (my first set of books), and through Noble Knight.

My FLGS didn't touch TLG stuff until I kept hounding them to do so -- the only exception was the box set of LA Essentials because of Gary's name.

Now, having said that, it's clear there's a hitch in distribution points for some people, especially those outside the contiguous 48 states of the U.S. and a few places within - this might be the spot that the Trolls really put some effort into now that Crusader is principally off Steve's worktable and the CZ stuff is finally moving ahead.

If the Trolls can improve that one aspect, I think the "waiting" issues become less magnified for those who are upset like Bill and Harry.

Really, I think the CKG actually fits better as a companion to what Steve mentioned in his blog as something he still wants down the road, the Adventurer's Backpack -- two guides, on for players, one for CKs, that are collections of varients and options. I just really feel strongly that what has occurred with the CKG is a sense by many that C&C somehow isn't "complete" without it (following the 3-core-book model that goes back to 1e), and I think that's just not true.... my own desires would actually rank M&T II and M&T of Aihrde higher, just because, at this moment, new critters & swag would be of most benefit to my ongoing Aihrde campaign (pst.... don't listen to me Steve -- stick with CKG,Shades of Mist, LRFAP and CZ stuff first).

The biggest need for TLG is continued exposure at this moment when the RPG community is fracturing over 4e release... there's a lot of people out there looking at alternatives right now, and this is the time to try and grab 'em. Now, the concerns Bill brought up are issues that affect that dynamic, as newcomers are gonna stick only if they feel satisfied, and certainly the distribution issues need to be looked at in order to keep customers happier.

But the REAL point that keeps a gamer invested in a company is usually a signature line or product beyond just the rules system, and for TLG that has to be CZ - gamers have been waiting for this dungeon for decades, long before TLG even existed. Give me CZ Upper Works this summer and The Dungeons anywhere from late 2008 to early 2009 and I'll happily wait a decade for CKG, Adventurer's Backpack.

Indeed, the one other "waiting to happen" product I think should get pushed up (and I've certainly changed my stance on this one) is the Basic set -- not because I need it, but because I have been sold on the idea that RPGs in general, and TLG's stuff in particular, needs to get out of the RPG community itself and back onto shelves in TOY STORES, where kids pick it up and learn it. So my own advice (to sum up) is as follows:

1. Get Upper Works released and keep the work on the next CZ installment on path.

2. Make sure Crusader stays on course as a monthly

3. Fix overseas and other distribution problems

4. Finish CKG (just because at this point it's been such an issue)

5. Finish C&C Basic and Melee (C&C Based Board Game) that can go out to Toy Stores.

Ok, so I am long-winded and I apologize for my verbosity -- I am a professor at the end of a LONG academic year in which I've directed three exhausting shows, and my brain is on usual end-of-semester overload as I trudge through 48 research papers, journals, etc.

_________________
John "Sir Seskis" Wright

Ilshara: Lands of Exile:
http://johnwright281.tripod.com/

High Squire of the C&C Society
www.cncsociety.org

For the perspective of the readers of this thread... I've ordered direct from TLG many times over the past year without any problems at all. I usually order things on the weekend and always get them by the following Friday or Saturday.
_________________
Rusty

I've also had great experiences ordering directly from the Trolls. The orders arrived in about a week (much better than the turnaround time for my FLGS) and the orders were always complete and accurate.

Buttmonkey wrote:
I've also had great experiences ordering directly from the Trolls. The orders arrived in about a week (much better than the turnaround time for my FLGS) and the orders were always complete and accurate.

I always order directly from the Trolls, and the only mistakes they have made with me is giving me extra stuff. I just assumed it was intentional because I am such an awesome fan.
However, if they had screwed up my order 5 times in a row, heck, twice in a row, I would call them, even from Canada (its only $.02/minute with the right calling card, at least from the US to Canada), and say, "WTH?!? Lets get this continuing problem fixed once and for all!" I have had bigger problems with Amazon, one for over a $150.00 and involved screwing up Christmas for my kids, but I still buy from Amazon. Despite having to argue with them for several weeks to get my money back.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

Harry Joy wrote:
I'd just love to see products out, and on store shelves. I haven't seen a new Troll Lords book of any kind on my local shelves since last year, except for "Gord the Rogue" and I don't buy fantasy fiction. Don't tell me to buy direct. I did that once, and have no desire to go through that again. I'd listened to Bill's tales of woe and thought it was "just him", until it happened to me the ONE and only time I tried ordering direct.

Just sell me some damned books, 'K?

Then there is a problem with your LGS, because there have been over 6 new products in the last year from TLG. Maybe your just not interested in the Folios and Yggsburgh? So count those as zero products? Plus I am pretty sure the number is higher than 6, I just haven't gone back and counted.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

I am rather fond of Troll Lords products, but I buy nothing sight unseen, which is why I do not buy new release books from Noble Knight Games. I rely on NKG for miniatures and oldies. For new releases, I prefer to be able to walk into a store and browse them, and keep the money local and the local shop in the green. The difficulties of getting the Trolls in stock however is laid out below, from a not so old thread here.

But first, on the subject of ordering direct - the quote below is from here:

Brutorz Bill had been telling me of his difficulties getting orders filled for months, when late last year he told me that he felt like the Trolls were finally getting it together. Shortly after, I made an inquiry here:

Harry Joy wrote:
Do the Troll Lords prefer email or phone orders? I've always thought it was the latter, which has kept me from ordering. Not that I'm shy, but my home hours don't usually jibe with TL's office hours.

I called that Monday, about November 19th, and placed an order. I spoke to Stephen, who told me everything I wanted was in stock and would ship in a couple of days. About two weeks later I got half of my order.

After a few phone calls and several unanswered emails, one perturbed email finally got a response, and over a month later, a couple of days after Christmas, which is on December the 25th in my country, the last of the order arrived. Among Stephen's excuses were "Not sure why your order didn't go out complete... I suspect the priorities got mixed up."

On the subject of Alliance/Diamond not getting product into the pipeline:

Harry Joy wrote:
I hate to say this, because I love Castles & Crusades, and I like my primary FLGS, and my town has two, but only my primary FLGS carries any C&C products and rarely orders more than one of each new release. They just don't sell. Almost every sale that I can recall being made of the PHB in the last year or so was because someone in my game group bought it. And there are many releases that have never made it to the shelves there, such as Monsters & Treasures. I ended up ordering mine from NKG. Quite often, when I try to special order something from the FLGS, such as Crusader, their distributer does not stock it. Very frustrating overall. Most of my personal "inventory" of C&C materials has either come straight from TLs or NKG.

Harry Joy wrote:
Memphis has two B&Ns, neither stocks C&C. Memphis has one Borders. It doesn't either. Memphis has a brand spanking new Hastings - checked it out for the first time last week. It doesn't stock C&C. Memphis has Waldenbooks, but that means going to a mall, and I haven't set foot in mall in years, so I don't know what they have.

Harry Joy wrote:
A couple of weeks ago, when I was asking about some newer C&C releases, one of the clerks let me watch as he pulled up the Diamond catalog on the store PC. We didn't see much of anything at all when we looked. Maybe the clerk was doing it wrong, but he's been at the store for years and looked pretty capable to me.

Harry Joy wrote:
And again today, at some length. It was a rainy day, and I'd JUST gotten my hair done up, so I wasn't going to let the damp frizzle my beautiful new curls...

Wait, wrong story.

Ron told me that the main trouble he's having nowadays with Alliance is that they are not stocking more than a handful of any given new release. He says that if he doesn't get an order in early enough, or if word of mouth leads him to rethink his order, that he's out of luck. Sometimes, he says, Alliance doesn't even ship what he does order.

It's not worrying him much right now. He said that the only RPG product at his store that's moving in any numbers right now is Pathfinder. But, he says he could sell more of other products [he specifically griped about Rifter], if he could get more than one or two in stock at a time, when folks are still asking to buy it. [Yeah, Bill, I mentioned your woes with Rifter when he said that.]

But, the best thing was getting a chance to browbeat the kid who actually purchases the RPGs for Ron right now. He promised to get more copies of whatever new releases the Trolls have listed than he currently orders. I told him that he had at least two or three guaranteed sales for each new book out of my group alone and that he'd never find out what sales he was missing if he kept selling out of TL new releases day of release because I got the only copy.

Oh, and I think I got both the owner, Ron, and the kid excited about Star SIEGE. And Crusader, to a degree. They support mags, KotDT and Kobold Quarterly, as much as they can.

I also got the idea from them, again, that they are expecting 4th to be a big flop, once the initial fervor is over. They are predicting that, in the long term, they'll see more sales from 3.x than the new edition.