Troll Lord Games

Hi All

I'm looking for a bit of guidance please...I am interested in buying C&C, but am unsure which books/pdf's to invest in. I would like C&C's equivalent of a players, monsters and DM's guide. Do I need the Players Handbook and the Monsters & Treasures books and that's it? Does it matter whether I get the 2nd edition or the 3rd printing? (I assume there is no difference between the two?) rpgnow (or drivethrurpg) offer a 'condensed' version of (I think) the Players Handbook, which is cheaper than the Players Handbook. Anyone know what the difference is? Any other extras/books I should consider buying as well?

As you can probably tell, I'm fairly new to this, so any help would be great. Thanks.

CB

You need the PHB and M&T - the condensed rules do not have all the rules (it is condensed, after all: provides only the needed components like some classes and races and a collection of monsters.) The later printings are "better" than their previous ones as they include errata and very minor changes (such as the pricing of poisons) and have a better layout (especially true of the PHB.) There is no "DM Guide" yet, and the one that is planned is not considered a core component of the game - it is meant to guide, not control.

Beyond the two main books, I would consider some modules (the DB and A series, especially) as well as Castle Zagyg: Yggsburgh. Along the same line, the Aihrde Folio and the East Mark Folio are indispensable.

After this, I'd suggest SG1: Engineering Dungeons and the Gygaxian Fantasy World series (especially if you are newer to gaming) especially World Builder, Cosmos Builder, and Living Fantasy.

Check out the Troll $10 sale. Everything there is worth having.

Also check out these free downloads:
Castles & Crusades
Quick Start Rules
Monsters & Treasure
The Rising Knight
A Lion in the Ropes

They'll give you a taste for the game.
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It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after ones own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350)

Hi CB....I just started C&C a couple months ago and am running a campaign right out the gate. I have only the PHB, M&T, Engineering Dungeons, and the CK Screen. Other than wishing for a few more monsters (hint hint TLs ) I find that there is nothing more that I really need to have a very enjoyable time or create my adventures.

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The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.

Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-

High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society

I'd go for the PHB 3rdPrint and M&T 2nd Print. Thats all you need. However, for extras I'd definitely snatch up Yggsburgh and Dragons of Airdhe.

Hmmn. I wasn't that impressed with Dragons of Airdhe, but I have only browsed my copy. Can you speak to some of the highlights from your point of view, DangerDwarf?
_________________
It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after ones own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350)

I dislike critter books that only give the stat blocks. Dragons of Aihrde givs some good stats plus some world information, etc. Thats what critter books should do in my opinion.

The end parts of the book (Myths & Cults,In the Bazaar, etc) prop the book up farther to me, giving you more than just critters by adding new stuff based on the critters contained.

Over all I think it was an above average book on beasties.

I liked Dragons of Airhde: Miasmal Wyrms. It let me throw some dragon-like creatures at a first level party without the guarantee of a TPK. I went with unk wyrms, nasty little critters who vomited on the party and use illusions.

Thanks for the help - Looks like I'll be going for the PHB and M&T to begin with, with a view to other modules later - The links look very handy as well (The Rising Knight etc), thanks again.

By the way, is this the correct area of the forum to be posting this type of query? (as I may have other questions later, for example, related to game rules interpretation etc).

CB wrote:
Thanks for the help - Looks like I'll be going for the PHB and M&T to begin with, with a view to other modules later - The links look very handy as well (The Rising Knight etc), thanks again.

No problem.

CB wrote:
By the way, is this the correct area of the forum to be posting this type of query? (as I may have other questions later, for example, related to game rules interpretation etc).

Rules discussion go in the Castles & Crusades: The Rules, The Laws and the Chaos forum, direct rules questions go in the Keeper Advice forum.

Welcome to the crusade!
_________________
It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after ones own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350)

You can post here for general advice or for rules interpretations and assistance you can post in the " Castles and Crusades:The Rules, The Laws, and the Chaos" thread.

Thanks again - I'm reading the PDF version of the PHB now, so questions may follow, although on first impressions, it seems really well written (in that, a novice like myself can get to grips with most elements...so far!)

However, if any of you can remember your first attempts as Castle Keeper and want to share with me the mistakes you made and/or what experience has taught you, then I'm all ears! (Please don't blind me with science though! I haven't even read Combat yet!)

My main advice to anyone new to C&C is don't over-roll.

It's a lighter system that doesn't require a player to roll for every action they attempt. If you require them to do so, they'll likely grow frustrated because of the nature of the system and the greater difficulties (especially for non-primes). It's a game designed to roll for significant challenges and when dramatically appropriate.

My advice concerns application of the SIEGE engine. In case you haven't gotten to it yet, the SIEGE engine is a rule mechanic that helps you determine whether characters are successful when they attempt something challenging with a significant chance of failure. When using the SIEGE engine, the CK sets a Challenge Level that corresponds to the difficulty of the task being attempted. The player then rolls a d20 to see if she is successful. (I've skipped some of the details, but this should be all you need to know to understand my advice.)

One "mistake" I made early on was to become a little flustered with the SIEGE system and rush myself when deciding on a Challenge Level for SIEGE rolls. Typically, I'd find myself in a situation where a SIEGE check is called for and, rather than have everyone wait 5-10 seconds while I carefully picked a Challenge Level for the SIEGE check, I'd tell the player to roll a d20 under the assumption that I would come up with the Challenge Level before the roll was finished. Inevitably, my brain would freeze and the player would tell me she rolled X. Now I'm doubly confused because I don't want to pick a Challenge Level based on whether it is going to succeed or fail given the player's actual roll.

I don't think my players ever picked up on my internal chaos, but I didn't enjoy the experience. So, my advice is to not be afraid to take a few seconds to calmly resolve matters before moving on with the game. You don't want to spend 5 minutes coming up with a ruling, but it's okay to take your time and get it right.