Any particularly useful monster books from d20?

papercut · Post by **papercut** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:57 pm

Hey there folks,

We in CnC land have a large catalogue of critters to choose from (about 20 years of monsters). That being said, there has also been a huge amount of creature collections since the inception of d20. Are there any d20 tomes that are particularly useful to CnC Cks? Fluff and crunch books could both be helpful. Which books have you mined/converted the most? Which d20 books do you find are the most helpful?

I suppose this is a relevant question due to the threat of some formerly perpetually available products being removed from the market due to the GSL. I guess I want to have the chance to get them in pdf before they are removed from the market.

Cheers!
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:01 am

I kind of like Book of Templates, because it gives some good ideas on warping regular monsters. I also like the Creature Catalogs for Classic D&D - and, beyond that, the Monstrous Compendium and add-ons for AD&D2e. If I have to stick to just d20, I'd go with Creature Collection I and II and the Encyclopedia of Demons and Devils I and II because I prefer "reality" over "pure fantasy" when it comes to those beings.

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:28 am

I'll certainly second the suggestion to the Book of Templates.

Two other books in a similar style would be the Monster's Handbook from the Legends & Lairs (put out by Fantasy Flight) series and the Advanced Bestiary (put out by Green Ronin).

Hmm... in terms of actual monster books, well, I know I've mentioned the Legends & Lairs series more than once on these boards but they have 4 soft-cover critter books in particular which I enjoyed:

- Twisted Lore

- Elemental Lore

- Necromantic Lore

- Draconic Lore

They have a fifth called Giant Lore but I thumbed through it on multiple occasions but wasn't impressed to buy it even at a discounted price. Be aware that these are thin books... no more than 65 and are mostly OOP. It shouldn't be too hard to find with average prices going for around $8 to $10 (compared to the MSRP of $14.95).

I love the Tome of Horrors by Necromancer Games which sadly has been OOP for some time but the PDF version updated it to 3.5 and added a WHOLE bunch of stuff. That said, if you have access to these classic critters from older AD&D material, it is hardly needed since a lot are conversions after all.

Aside from those, the only other monster books (for 3.x) that I have would be MM I, II, and III as well as the Fiend Folio.

M
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cuchulainkevin · Post by **cuchulainkevin** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:53 am

The Monsternomicron from Privateer Press. Monsters from the Iron Kingdoms setting. I thought there were some pretty cool critters in there and the artwork is topnotch.
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papercut · Post by **papercut** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:05 am

moriarty777 wrote:
I love the Tome of Horrors by Necromancer Games which sadly has been OOP for some time but the PDF version updated it to 3.5 and added a WHOLE bunch of stuff. That said, if you have access to these classic critters from older AD&D material, it is hardly needed since a lot are conversions after all.

M

I believe those books are OGL (at least the first one is). Thus all those little nasties are backdoored into the SRD. An aspiring writer/producer could grab the fluff text from the new books and add them to converted CnC data from the the 1e sources.

Wouldn't be that hard to do, plus it would be legal, and one could earn some geek cred and a nice little plug on your resume. The art would be the biggest problem, but hungry artists are easy to find. I know- I was one once. That being said, the original 1e books already exist. A nice compiled source would be nice though. Could be a cool summertime project for someone (or offshore it to China!).
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:14 am

There's a few interesting ones from Diablo II if you have the books or can get them ~ To Hell and Back or Diablerie. That's about all I have other than the 3E monster manual.
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:33 am

papercut wrote:
I believe those books are OGL (at least the first one is). Thus all those little nasties are backdoored into the SRD. An aspiring writer/producer could grab the fluff text from the new books and add them to converted CnC data from the the 1e sources.

Wouldn't be that hard to do, plus it would be legal, and one could earn some geek cred and a nice little plug on your resume. The art would be the biggest problem, but hungry artists are easy to find. I know- I was one once. That being said, the original 1e books already exist. A nice compiled source would be nice though. Could be a cool summertime project for someone (or offshore it to China!).

Yes... certainly OGL material which means it can be re-used in other d20 products but to clarify -- NOT as part of the SRD. This means that, although one could do as you suggest, you would also have to list each creature used in this manner in Section 15 of the OGL and citing the Tome of Horrors as the source for each separate one from my understanding.

It would be an interesting project perhaps... but I'd sooner just use the 1st and 2nd edition material I already own than bother with a conversion. Besides, those older book are still relatively easy and inexpensive to find -- a worthwhile investment IMO.

M
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Frost · Post by **Frost** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:18 am

I recently discovered some real d20 gems... the Monster Geographica series by Expeditious Retreat Press are great. They contain monsters from all kinds of OGL books (Creature Collection, Tome of Horrors, and many more). Each book is for a particular region (Forest, Underground, etc.) and are arranged by CR, rather than alphabetically. This is very useful. Hmm... party wandering into the forest? Let's check the forest book for an appropriate monster... very handy. RPGShop.com has a few on sale for $10.00 each.
http://www.xrpshop.citymax.com/page/page/3906430.htm
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papercut · Post by **papercut** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:44 am

TheFrost wrote:
I recently discovered some real d20 gems... the Monster Geographica series by Expeditious Retreat Press are great. They contain monsters from all kinds of OGL books (Creature Collection, Tome of Horrors, and many more). Each book is for a particular region (Forest, Underground, etc.) and are arranged by CR, rather than alphabetically. This is very useful. Hmm... party wandering into the forest? Let's check the forest book for an appropriate monster... very handy. RPGShop.com has a few on sale for $10.00 each.
http://www.xrpshop.citymax.com/page/page/3906430.htm

Very interesting idea. Steamlined tool for a broken system, I wonder how hard it would be to text grab from pdf and then use a program to monkey around with the fields to convert it to CnC? Anyone know how to do this? Thats like 1500 monsters if you could include fiend books from Tome of Horrors series.

Would the GSL break something like this? With material sourced from several companies, would some entries become unprintable if the original firm went GSL? GSL
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Aladar · Post by **Aladar** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:38 pm

Not to put down any d20 pulished work, but I have found that the original 1st Ed. AD&D Monster Manuals (I & II) and the Fiend Folio contain more than enough monsters for me to use with C&C.
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