Okay guys, setting time once again! I've read up on KoK and like what I've seen but am wondering about the Codex of Erde & After Winter's Dark. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but AWD seems to be a remake of Codex or Erde (Aihrde)? If it's not, them please fill me in. I've read some reviews of KoK and while most are positive, a few here and there have said that it's almost too detailed, and thus ends up becoming dry. The preview material I've seen on Kenzer's website didn't seem to reaffirm the latter. The more detail the better I say (on certain things like manner of dress, etc.)!
I've also heard good things about Erde/Aihrde as well but haven't really seen too much on it. The reviews I've read have been mostly positive as well, noting grammar and typos. Those don't really concern me though, as I'm used to Wizards' books already (hey-oh!).
Reason I ask is I'm planning on possibly starting up a campaign soon and need a good setting that isn't too much of a Greyhawk clone (not that there's anything wrong with Greyhawk mind you). Note that I do have Yggsburgh and love it dearly. I will probably work it into the bigger picture of whatever campaign setting I choose. Thanks in advance guys!
Codex of Erde vs. Kingdoms of Kalamar vs. After Winer's Dark
Which After Winter's Dark? There was one, a pre-d20 version which predates the Codex, so that means the Codex is a revamp of it, and then there is the newer C&C one which is a Codex re-creation, suited to C&C rather than d20. They are essentially the same, with the Codex having much more material, for obvious reasons (it is more of the setting, complete-wise than either "folio" could dream to be.)
That said - comparing the two (Kingdoms vs. Erde/Aihrde) is only superficial, really. Kingdoms of Kalamar is granular (what there is now, and how people deal with it,) but wiggly - Aihrde is more about history -- what there was, and what might be coming from that, leaving an awful lot of wiggle room... that makes them both equally viable but different, substantially, in presentation.
That said - comparing the two (Kingdoms vs. Erde/Aihrde) is only superficial, really. Kingdoms of Kalamar is granular (what there is now, and how people deal with it,) but wiggly - Aihrde is more about history -- what there was, and what might be coming from that, leaving an awful lot of wiggle room... that makes them both equally viable but different, substantially, in presentation.
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DangerDwarf
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Between the two settings, I'd suggest Kalamar over Erde/Aihrde (sorry trolls ). While I haven't picked up AWD, I did pick up the Codex, which was enough to make me not want to get AWD when it released.
Erde seems alright, but for the most part it left me feeling uninspired. Kalamar on the other hand is immensely inspiring and has the absolute best Atlas you'll ever find for an RPG. Yes, there is some dry spots in the reading, but I was never able to finish the Codex of Erde, it put me to sleep.
Erde seems alright, but for the most part it left me feeling uninspired. Kalamar on the other hand is immensely inspiring and has the absolute best Atlas you'll ever find for an RPG. Yes, there is some dry spots in the reading, but I was never able to finish the Codex of Erde, it put me to sleep.
Hmm....food for thought.
I should've been more clear, I was referring to the newer folio one. I figured they couldn't condense 250-some odd pages into a 48 page gazetteer and 20-some page supplement.
Well, it'd be nice to have some preview material of Erde/Aihrde. Right now I'm kinda' leaning towards KoK. I bought the DM's screen for it back when I used to play/run 3.x. Only things I'd need are the Atlas and main guide which can both be had from Amazon resellers for $25 + shipping. Anyone else have any opinions on Erde? Thanks all!
Serleran wrote:
Which After Winter's Dark? There was one, a pre-d20 version which predates the Codex, so that means the Codex is a revamp of it, and then there is the newer C&C one which is a Codex re-creation, suited to C&C rather than d20. They are essentially the same, with the Codex having much more material, for obvious reasons (it is more of the setting, complete-wise than either "folio" could dream to be.)
I should've been more clear, I was referring to the newer folio one. I figured they couldn't condense 250-some odd pages into a 48 page gazetteer and 20-some page supplement.
DangerDwarf wrote:
Erde seems alright, but for the most part it left me feeling uninspired. Kalamar on the other hand is immensely inspiring and has the absolute best Atlas you'll ever find for an RPG. Yes, there is some dry spots in the reading, but I was never able to finish the Codex of Erde, it put me to sleep.
Well, it'd be nice to have some preview material of Erde/Aihrde. Right now I'm kinda' leaning towards KoK. I bought the DM's screen for it back when I used to play/run 3.x. Only things I'd need are the Atlas and main guide which can both be had from Amazon resellers for $25 + shipping. Anyone else have any opinions on Erde? Thanks all!
Heh.. I actually had the opposite reaction than DangerDwarf... I had played Kalamar and had had fun, but didn't quite reach the level of inspiration that I had really only felt previously with original Greyhawk. I got the After Winter's Dark folio first and fell in love with the possibilities, and then went back and retroactively got the Codex which I now use as a resource behind my Aihrde setting.
In the end it's a matter of taste on what you want your setting to do -- Kalamar is good for low-magic, low-power "chopped-up" world in the declining days of a dominant Empire (Kalamar is like Rome).
Airhde is more high fantasy, intertwined mythologies - more ancient mythos combined with very European feel with specific uses of French, German and Norse cultural aspects as analogs for Elves, Dwarves, barbarian humans, etc.
I like them both but I'm an Aihrde man -- I even put my own setting, into which I'd poured a lot of effort, temporarily aside for my home game to run and AWD campaign - which says a lot for me.
Again, matter of taste and likes/dislikes.
Oh, and the Atlas Kenzer produced was indeed one of the most comprehensive map works for any game setting ever. It is nothing short of a labor of love obviously.
_________________
John "Sir Seskis" Wright
Ilshara: Lands of Exile:
http://johnwright281.tripod.com/
High Squire of the C&C Society
www.cncsociety.org
In the end it's a matter of taste on what you want your setting to do -- Kalamar is good for low-magic, low-power "chopped-up" world in the declining days of a dominant Empire (Kalamar is like Rome).
Airhde is more high fantasy, intertwined mythologies - more ancient mythos combined with very European feel with specific uses of French, German and Norse cultural aspects as analogs for Elves, Dwarves, barbarian humans, etc.
I like them both but I'm an Aihrde man -- I even put my own setting, into which I'd poured a lot of effort, temporarily aside for my home game to run and AWD campaign - which says a lot for me.
Again, matter of taste and likes/dislikes.
Oh, and the Atlas Kenzer produced was indeed one of the most comprehensive map works for any game setting ever. It is nothing short of a labor of love obviously.
_________________
John "Sir Seskis" Wright
Ilshara: Lands of Exile:
http://johnwright281.tripod.com/
High Squire of the C&C Society
www.cncsociety.org
Hmm, I've never heard of the Kingdoms of Kalamar!
And if it's overly detailed that would surely lose my interest.
I can only speak about Aihrde ~ I find it to be the perfect balance between an overly detailed campaign world and one that's hollow to the core. It has great history, atmosphere, lore, magic items, pantheons, heroic figures, societies, interesting personages, etc. etc.
Some similarities to Greyhawk, but different and perhaps closer to Warhammer.
I'd recommend the Codex (it's cheap) or the AWD. Even if you don't choose this campaign world, there is a goodly amount of cool stuff that I think you can utilize.
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Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
And if it's overly detailed that would surely lose my interest.
I can only speak about Aihrde ~ I find it to be the perfect balance between an overly detailed campaign world and one that's hollow to the core. It has great history, atmosphere, lore, magic items, pantheons, heroic figures, societies, interesting personages, etc. etc.
Some similarities to Greyhawk, but different and perhaps closer to Warhammer.
I'd recommend the Codex (it's cheap) or the AWD. Even if you don't choose this campaign world, there is a goodly amount of cool stuff that I think you can utilize.
_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
They are too different in presentation to compare them Erde/Airhde is a very "outline" type of presentation, KoK fills in a lot of blanks but leaves the story part wide open for the DM.
Erde leaves a lot of flavor aspects wide open, only suggesting German Dwarves, French Elves, African Eldritch Goblyns, etc...
KoK tells you language, tells you dress, tells you religion, etc...
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society
Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/
My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
Erde leaves a lot of flavor aspects wide open, only suggesting German Dwarves, French Elves, African Eldritch Goblyns, etc...
KoK tells you language, tells you dress, tells you religion, etc...
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society
Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/
My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Rhuvein wrote:
Hmm, I've never heard of the Kingdoms of Kalamar!
And if it's overly detailed that would surely lose my interest.
I can only speak about Aihrde ~ I find it to be the perfect balance between an overly detailed campaign world and one that's hollow to the core. It has great history, atmosphere, lore, magic items, pantheons, heroic figures, societies, interesting personages, etc. etc.
Some similarities to Greyhawk, but different and perhaps closer to Warhammer.
I'd recommend the Codex (it's cheap) or the AWD. Even if you don't choose this campaign world, there is a goodly amount of cool stuff that I think you can utilize.
Hmm...closer to Warhammer eh? Me likey some Olde World setting. That type of setting combined with C&C could be interesting....It also sounds like Kalamar might be somewhat similar to Mystara in some ways? If so, that would be awesome too! Any thoughts on that line of thought or am I totally off base there?
Seskis281 wrote:
Again, matter of taste and likes/dislikes.
Aren't they all? That being said, I might just pick up all three for a measly $35 + shipping. How could I go wrong? All this from someone who found the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer to be a good product (I just heard thousands of Greyhawk fanatics scream out in pain).
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DangerDwarf
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- Location: East Texas
I liked the LGG too. I didn't understand the negativity either.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society
Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/
My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society
Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/
My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
More thoughts.
Aidrde does have many areas that lend themselves to porting in other works, IMO. NOt sure if the Trolls actively thought to do this, but . . .
Seskis mentioned ancient Rome - Lost City of Gaxmoor.
Ancient Greece - Islands of Tagea.
Old World - yes,
Known World/Mystara - yes.
Barovia - easily.
Krynn/DL - indeed.
Wilderlands - perfectly.
Haunted Highlands - oh yeah.
Yggsburgh - yep.
Greyhawk - perfectly.
Blackmoor - done.
OK, I'll stop now.
Come on people give me a world, module or setting and I'll find a place in Aihrde!!
[Stupid fanboy me, pretty obvious . . or brilliant Trolls for creating the world of Aihrde!! ]
_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
Aidrde does have many areas that lend themselves to porting in other works, IMO. NOt sure if the Trolls actively thought to do this, but . . .
Seskis mentioned ancient Rome - Lost City of Gaxmoor.
Ancient Greece - Islands of Tagea.
Old World - yes,
Known World/Mystara - yes.
Barovia - easily.
Krynn/DL - indeed.
Wilderlands - perfectly.
Haunted Highlands - oh yeah.
Yggsburgh - yep.
Greyhawk - perfectly.
Blackmoor - done.
OK, I'll stop now.
Come on people give me a world, module or setting and I'll find a place in Aihrde!!
[Stupid fanboy me, pretty obvious . . or brilliant Trolls for creating the world of Aihrde!! ]
_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
Oh yeah, Diablo!!! Woot!!
_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
If you can find it, I would suggest the pre-d20 Kingdoms of Kalamar Box Set - it is superior to the d20 material, in my opinion, at least as far as setting stuff goes - there are some very good d20 Kingdoms products floating about worth checking out, but I always suggest looking at it as it was intended...
Well, I'm a little more than half way in the pre3 KoK and I really like the setting. There is a ton of detail about the world but there is next to no story line. There is a lot of hooks suggested in the material that would lead to adventures, though.
On the Codex/Folio, I absolutely love the history provided in the Codex. One of my top five RPG reads just for the history alone. The Folio pairs that down quite a bit, but it is still a great read with more racial info than previous versions and more general world info (the pred20 and Codex mainly focus on the Cradle of the World regions) (I have the pred20 book, the Codex, and the Folio and get just enough differences to make it worth while). Also, the adventures, both d20 and C&C help to flesh out different parts of Airdhe.
You really couldn't go wrong with getting all three (KoK, Codex, and Folio).
R-
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Rigon o' the Lakelands, Baron of The Castles & Crusades Society
The Book of the Mind
On the Codex/Folio, I absolutely love the history provided in the Codex. One of my top five RPG reads just for the history alone. The Folio pairs that down quite a bit, but it is still a great read with more racial info than previous versions and more general world info (the pred20 and Codex mainly focus on the Cradle of the World regions) (I have the pred20 book, the Codex, and the Folio and get just enough differences to make it worth while). Also, the adventures, both d20 and C&C help to flesh out different parts of Airdhe.
You really couldn't go wrong with getting all three (KoK, Codex, and Folio).
R-
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Rigon o' the Lakelands, Baron of The Castles & Crusades Society
The Book of the Mind
Castles & Crusades: What 3rd Edition AD&D should have been.
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House Rules & Whatnots
My Game Threads
Monday Night Online Group Member since 2007
TLG Forum Moderator
House Rules & Whatnots
My Game Threads
Monday Night Online Group Member since 2007
Both are great products. My ONLY issue with Kalamar was the nigh-unpronouncable place names. P'Bapar? Really?
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Dan
http://home.comcast.net/~danbuter/candc.html - my Castles and Crusades webpage
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Dan
http://home.comcast.net/~danbuter/candc.html - my Castles and Crusades webpage