Archer class revised

[danbuter]

I've had an Archer class made up for about a year, and I was still iffy on it. I'd appreciate any comments you may have. My big concern is the BtH number vs Fighter. Thanks!

Archer (Dexterity)

Archers specialize with missile weapons of all types, and are truly deadly at range. However, they falter in melee combat.

Abilities:

Eagle Eye: At 1st level, the archer increases all range increments for missile weapons he uses to 150% standard. He can also accurately determine the range to a target at a glance.

Missile Weapon Specialization: At 4th level, the archer picks one type of missile weapon. He gains a +1 to hit and a +1 to damage when using it.

Melee Shot: At 7th level, the archer can shoot into melee with no penalties.

Rapid Reload: At 10th level, the archer can fire twice per round with his specialized missile weapon.

Prime Attribute: Dexterity

Alignment: Any

Hit Dice: d6

Weapons: Any missile weapon, club, dagger, dirk, hatchet, knife, poniard, short sword

Armor: leather armor, leather coat, mail shirt, ring mail, studded leather

Abilities: Eagle Eye, Missile Weapon Specialist, Melee Shot, Rapid Reload

HD: d6

XP: as Assassin

BtH: as Fighter
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Dan
http://home.comcast.net/~danbuter/candc.html - my Castles and Crusades webpage

[serleran]

I think this needs to be in the rules forum.

I never give new classes the fighter BtH, as a rule. That is one of the defining aspects of the class.

[Go0gleplex]

Not bad, though I think it does need some tweaking. Some recommendations (food for thought)
As an Archer I would assume that the specialization would be in either short or long bow, not just any missile weapon.

if that's the case, then I would rename Missile Weapon Specialization to Bow Specialization.

I would also swap the specialization with the Eagle Eye ability making the specialization consistent with the Fighter specialization ability at 1st level.

lose the Melee Shot. It seems weak for a 7th level ability.

I'd replace it with Aimed Shot: If the Archer spends a round undisturbed, carefully aiming at the target, the following to hit roll is made at +4 to hit. (This would allow the Archer to pull off William Tell or Robin Hood type shots to me, and should pretty much neutralize melee fire penalties without making it seem over-the-top IMO)

Change allowed weapons from "Any missile weapon" to Short or Long bow (and composit varieties thereof). I can tell you from personal experience that pulling off two shots in a "round" with a crossbow is all but impossible without a specially constructed crossbow...
_________________
The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.

Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-

High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society

[Zebulon]

Well, as a player, given the choice between this class and a fighter who chose the longbw as his specialized weapon, I wouldn't hesitate: I would immediately choose the fighter. Despite the assassin EPP, there is nothing here, to make me want use that class rather than a fighter who has d10 hp.
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www.lythia.com: Free resources for Harn but also adaptable to any medieval setting.

[Buttmonkey]

I like the Melee Shot special ability. That would be very significant in any campaign I ran. My general rule of thumb is that if fire a missile weapon into melee combat and miss, you get to make a to-hit roll with bonuses to see if you hit a comrade. Googleplex's Aimed Shot suggestion would not be that helpful in my game. Sure, +4 to hit is great, but if the BBEG has a 28 AC, I'd be much more concerned with not shooting my fellow PC in the back of the head.

I would also echo the suggestion of giving weapon specialization at 1st level and Eagle Eye at 4th.

The BTH has to drop to Level-1 in order to avoid nerfing the fighter class.

I think you could keep 2 shots/round with the crossbow if you assume the archer is firing two bolts simultaneously rather than reloading. Could that work in real life? I have no idea, but I'm pretty sure when Kevin Costner fired three arrows at once in Robind Hood: Prince of Thieves, real world physics had already gone out the window. Or did he only shoot two? Either way, I figure a 10th level archer would find a way to git er done.

[tex]

I think I agree with Zebulon, in that I'd have a hard time picking your Archer over an appropriately specialized Fighter.

First let's look at the advantages of playing an Archer over a specialized fighter: Improved range increments is kind of neat, but it frankly isn't going to come up very often in typical adventuring scenarios, and when it does, it isn't going to matter much because the medium range penalty is only -2 (every now and then Archers will be able to make that crazy shot 400 ft with the longbow, but how much will it matter at d8+1 damage?). Shooting into melee without penalty is very useful but it isn't available until 7th level. The Prime Attribute of Dexterity is probably better than Strength. The lower XP thresholds are also an advantage.

Now I'll detail the disadvantages. Firstly the class loses nearly half its hit points vs the Fighter. Ouch. Secondly the Specialization ability is weaker than the Fighter's because it doesn't improve with level and because Archers have to wait until 4th level to get it. The Fighter's Extra Attack ability is just about twice as good.

So, the Archer trades a lot of resilience and flexibility in exchange for lower xp thresholds, and one ability that really matters (firing into melee), and that isn't earned until 7th level.

Could I suggest a few changes? I'd probably bump the hit die to d8, and reduce the BtH by one, so it matches the other "Warriorish" classes. This is a balanced change I'd say so there's room to add some oomph to the class. Secondly I'd swap the Eagle Eye ability and Melee Shot -- let's have the Archer be more useful at earlier levels, but keep the flavor of Eagle Eye as a sort of higher-level extra. Thirdly I'd move the Specialization to 2nd level and have it improve at 8th level as the Fighter's does -- Archers have trouble dealing a lot of damage because the Strength bonus doesn't apply to bows, so let's help them out a little. I'd also bump the bonus to the attack roll by +1 for that Ability, and bump it again by +1 at 8th level. This way the Archer can be as accurate with a ranged weapon as a Fighter (and later a bit more even) without stepping on the Fighter's toes by stealing his BtH. I'm not sure if I would leave the class at Assassiny xp or bump it up to the Fighter's level.

Comments?

[Zebulon]

Well, my own suggestions:

It's a fighter except that:

1) BtH = level-1

2) d8 instead of d10

3) Armors and weapons as you proposed for that archer

4) Battlefield dominance removed

5) Add d20 feats related to archery in place of Battlefield dominance at the levels when it is gained and then improved.

6) Either a bowman or crossbowman. The first gains a +1 to hit with all bows (and can only specialize with bows), while the second gains a +1 to hit with all crossbows (and can only specialize with crossbows).

7) Weapon specialization: progresses as for fighters, but also provides the Melee Shot ability (in improving the specialization, fighter specializing in the bow still cannot be as good as archers).

8) Prime = Dex
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www.lythia.com: Free resources for Harn but also adaptable to any medieval setting.

[Go0gleplex]

You "can" fire three arrows simultaneously from a bow...but the hollywood magic was that he actually hit anything with more than one.
I agree with the hit die increase to d8.

Looking through some of the comments....additional suggestions;

Move the Rapid Fire ability to 3rd level, increase at 7th and 11th (a good archer can get three shots off in less than 10 seconds or so)

Replace the 10th level ability with

Lethal Shot: The archer may use this ability to target the heart, brain, or other critical organ of the target creature potentially killing them in a single shot. The Archer makes the to hit roll at -2, but if successful, the target must make a DEX save or be killed instantly. Even if the save is successful, the shot does double normal damage.
_________________
The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.

Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-

High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society

[Go0gleplex]

for discussion's sake....
http://www.angelfire.com/or/FireHorse/Archer.pdf
_________________
The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.

Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-

High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society