Quest for that perfect game

angelius · Post by **angelius** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:59 pm

Hi everyone,

As per my usual ADHD or whatever that I may have been living with for most of my life, I'm once again on that never ending quest for the "perfect game".

I'm sure someone else out there must have this inclination to find that "perfect game". C&C does come close, but it's still not perfect.

I suppose that I should define what perfect means to me, perfect is a game that actually keeps my attention for months at a time. C&C so far has done the best keeping my interest for 3-4 month stretches. But now I'm fooling around with homebrewed game systems etc again.

Maybe I just get bored with the genre when I DM it for too long?

I'm flirting with a new system now that I made up, roughly based on influences from Cyberpunk and the Bladerunner enviro.

Has anyone ever experience this feeling and what have you done about it?
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BeZurKur · Post by **BeZurKur** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:25 pm

The perfect game doesn't exist, and I for one am happy for it. Rules are like foods, it depends what mood you're in; and, despite what dish might be your favorite, it can get tiresome after a week of having it. I'm happy C&C is around because it kept this type of game on the menu, but I also enjoy the others -- even if it is only to change it up every now and then.

If your mind is beginning to wander, but you feel you should stick to the C&C diet, do a oneshot of some other game. Be sure it highlights what you're craving (although for that, you'll need to identify it) and run a one-shot session. Better yet, see if anyone else wants to run it. Afterwards, return to your campaign game.

Games aren't like woman: they don't get mad when you try out another, so why stay married to one?

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:27 pm

I know where your coming from, and I don't think that the perfect game actually exists. As a C&C fiend, it is as close as I've seen to the perfect game for me, but it's still far from the perfect game... in my mind.

I've tooled around with my own systems, but I'm still not happy.

So I hear where you're coming from.

Always looking for the perfect Cyberpunk game myself as well. CP2020 has been my closest find... but still, not perfect.

.........................................Omote

FPQ
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Combat_Kyle · Post by **Combat_Kyle** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:33 pm

Well if you are having gamer ADHD then try what may gaming group does. We have a rotation, 3 games, three GMs. Two of the games are C&C, the other is a d20 Past game with 1930s pulp style. We played some WoD but couldn't really get into it. Nobody has experienced GM burnout and we have three fresh storylines going.
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angelius · Post by **angelius** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:06 pm

Now that's interesting, maybe I should do a one shot session of Call of Cthulhu 1930...

Maybe even bring back CHILL for a one shot thing.
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Weezoh · Post by **Weezoh** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:32 pm

I am usually the same way; always trying to find the 'right' system. Ask my players
Anyway while I enjoy C&C my last campaign start (and current game) is True20 from Green Ronin.

It maintains the rules light feeling but allows for a little more crunch in character construction.

We are also in a 3 - 4 GM rotation over the year as well.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:54 pm

C&C isn't perfect, or I wouldn't be adding a house rule here and a house rule there. Its perfect in that it lets me do that and stay a simple system.

I occassionally get the ADHD thing, whihc is why I figured out how to use the SIEGE engine for Traveller (MegaTraveller) and still keep it purely a skills based system.

Now when you say character crunch, what exactly do you mean? I/we get plenty of character crunch as we define it because of how they have the ability to try to perform any kind of combat related Feat, plus any skill on their 3E list is available to them. Plus the "iconic" abilities of their class.

So I am interested in how you define character crunch.

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:17 pm

Over the years, I have found that sometimes I just need to do something different for the spirit of gaming to remain fresh and renewed.

I have found other game systems and a couple grace my shelves for those moments. The perfect game is measured in the amount of pleasure that is derived from it. On my shelves, aside from my AD&D, D&D 3.x, and C&C (which can I now lump together), I have WEG's Star Wars. I love that system about as much as I love C&C. WEG may have lost the liscencing to WOTC (well Hasbro which prompted StarWars d20 version), but they currently still do what they have since dubbed their d6 line. It is simple and fairly streamlined to the point that focusses on roleplay and gameplay as opposed to a rules-heavy game. I also have the Call of Cthuhul rulebook cause I just love Lovecraft! However, I'd play the game but I wouldn't necessarily run it. I'm not as fond of the game system design.

I have occassionally pulled out my Star Wars which gives a change of pace from time to time over the years. Sometimes just playing for the sake of playing can do wonders... Get someone else to run a campaign and sure enough, if you are enjoying yourself, you'll be wanting to sit back in the driver's seat and run a game once again!

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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:05 pm

There are definitely times you need a change of pace! That is why I even own Traveller, Shadowrun, Mutants and Masterminds, Paranoia, Chivalry and Sorcery, Pendragon, RIFTS, etc....

magehammer · Post by **magehammer** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:28 pm

I am all for the switch up occasionally, but I think Weezoh and I may have burned out our group a bit. So be careful how often you switch up. Groups do need consistency.
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Weezoh · Post by **Weezoh** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:19 pm

Treebore wrote:
Now when you say character crunch, what exactly do you mean? I/we get plenty of character crunch as we define it because of how they have the ability to try to perform any kind of combat related Feat, plus any skill on their 3E list is available to them. Plus the "iconic" abilities of their class.

So I am interested in how you define character crunch.

I define crunch in this case to pertain to the ability to create the character in such a way as to have certain abilities aka feats and skills. I personally don't like being in an archetypal system.

I'm not worried about the role playing feats and skills; but the rule-modifying ones I don't see how you could use them in C&C without house rules. if you're using house rules, that's different. But all I'm doing is adopting a set of different rules so I don't have to develop and maintain house rules that would accomplish the same thing. After all you can house rule anything using any system as a base starting point.

An other reason I am using true20 is the magic system since I don't like vancian magic either.

It really boils down to the archetype system; I like to have more options.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:20 pm

Sometimes I get the feeling that I have a disconnect with others when I describe how feats are used in my game.

I do not actually have feats as a house rule, per se. I allow any type of feat that my players are familiar with (they all play 3E as well) to be attempted by any character/class in my game. They declare a desire to attempt it, usually cleave or power attack, and I tell them what TN they need to beat to pull it off.

So technically, every character has the ability to attempt any such feat in my games, these feat modifiers just aren't constant. IT is something extra, that they pull out from within, is the way I look at it.

So it isn't a house rule, because any action not covered by the rules is handled the same way. Feats from 3E are just a "guideline" on the kind of "extra's" a character can attempt using the SIEGE engine.

Skills are used as a defined guideline as well. Fewer questions on what a character knows and doesn't know.

So they are a house rule in the sense that they provide guidelines of what can be attempted or what skill is known by a particular PC of a particular class, but it isn't as if I wrote up a document saying these feats are useable and this is how. I said "use the 3E feats for inspiration on what kind of things your character can attempt to do in the course of a game, and I'll tell you what you need to roll to succeed in the attempt." That is how it has been working in my game. Only the skills lists are used as a house rule. Again, any feat can be attempted by any class, if it makes sense for that class to be able to do it. Such as a turning related feat, you better be a cleric.

miller6 · Post by **miller6** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:03 pm

Based on the stated time frame of 3-4 months, it's been my experience that game mechanics have little to do with the feeling of discontent you're experiencing.

Think back...everyone thought their first time playing D&D or C&C or whatever system was just the coolest thing in the world. Then later, as you get to know the game better (after 3-4 months) the "newness" wears off. What we're talking about here is a gaming version of infatuation. At first it's new and exciting, then later it's the same old thing.

The way to avoid it is to introduce new elements into your game...to make the game "new again" (i.e. new magic items, new monsters, new classes, etc.) or vary the feel of the game by switching to campaigns with different styles (i.e. gothic-based, faerie, psionic, barbaric, high-seas, etc.)

What I've done with my campaign is make the setting of each kingdom so different from the rest that exploration in each one is like playing a different game.

Try it. You might like it.

Brian Miller
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