SIEGE engine

[angelius]

If I am writing a basic cyberpunk game based on the SIEGE engine to publish on the web.

Can I do that?

What sort of copyright/OGL/legal stuff I need to add?
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[gideon_thorne]

angelius wrote:
If I am writing a basic cyberpunk game based on the SIEGE engine to publish on the web.

Can I do that?

What sort of copyright/OGL/legal stuff I need to add?

You need to write and or call Steve and ask him. The Siege engine section itself is not OGC.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[Matthew]

As far as I understand it, the mechanic itself is not actually copyrighted, but the 'SIEGE' aspect of it is. You could call it a 'potato check' and still use the mathematically derived rule. Not so sure about the various nomenclature surrounding the system, such as 'challenge levels'. Anyway, easier to just contact Steve.

That's what I understand from the license at the back of the PHB.
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[tex]

gideon_thorne wrote:
You need to write and or call Steve and ask him. The Siege engine section itself is not OGC.

Regardless of the text of the Siege engine being designated OGC or not, game mechanics can't be copyrighted, so assuming he's going to be writing his own text entirely from scratch, he shouldn't feel legally obligated to ask for permission.

That said, there are separate trademark issues. I think even without permission he can put in his text, "This is compatible with the Siege Engine by TLG," though.

Not saying he shouldn't be friendly talk to Steve anyway, but just making it clear that "need" may be too strong a word. : ]

Proof:
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html

[gideon_thorne]

tex wrote:
Regardless of the text of the Siege engine being designated OGC or not, game mechanics can't be copyrighted, so assuming he's going to be writing his own text entirely from scratch, he shouldn't feel legally obligated to ask for permission.

That said, there are separate trademark issues. I think even without permission he can put in his text, "This is compatible with the Siege Engine by TLG," though.

Not saying he shouldn't be friendly talk to Steve anyway, but just making it clear that "need" may be too strong a word. : ]

Proof:
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html

I didn't say the game mechanics were. I said the section is not OGC. Sure, folks can, and clearly do, rewrite mechanics to suit their own ends. But he asked a specific question on how to go about using the Siege Engine itself and indicating compatibility. That, as I said, has to go through Steve.

(minor rant)There's a few of us still left in the world that prefer to go about the right way to do things and not just assume use of someone else's hard work willy nilly.(minor rant over)
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[serleran]

It is best to ask Steve exactly what needs to be added, as he can provide you with the current OGL used by C&C.

[Troll Lord]

Hey Angelius,

I'm not going to tell you what you can and cannot do concerning mechanics. I have to talk to my lawyer. Then I have to pay him more! hahah

But just drop me a line if your concerned. We'll work it out right quick.

Thanks for posting and asking.!

Steve
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He who sits on the elephants back

Castle and Crusade Society
troll@trolllord.com

[tex]

gideon_thorne wrote:
I didn't say the game mechanics were. I said the section is not OGC. Sure, folks can, and clearly do, rewrite mechanics to suit their own ends. But he asked a specific question on how to go about using the Siege Engine itself and indicating compatibility. That, as I said, has to go through Steve.

Well yeah, if you're right about what he meant by "based on the SIEGE engine." What he means by that could make either or neither of us right. : ]

Quote:
(minor rant)There's a few of us still left in the world that prefer to go about the right way to do things and not just assume use of someone else's hard work willy nilly.(minor rant over)

Me neither, except when somebody's notion of "the right way" runs roughshod over matters of free expression and speech:
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1023-963122.html?hhTest=1
http://www.chillingeffects.org/copyright/

I want to add that I don't think TLG is being, er, trollish about this, it's just that there are a lot of misconceptions about copyrights and intellectual property, and I want to make angelius understand what his rights are. : ]

[gideon_thorne]

tex wrote:
I want to add that I don't think TLG is being, er, trollish about this, it's just that there are a lot of misconceptions about copyrights and intellectual property, and I want to make angelius understand what his rights are. : ]

Course, I'm a big fan of hoping to convey what responsibility to a civil and just society is.

I'm well aware of copy write law. But that hasn't stopped people from scrubbing my name of of several of my works of art, replacing it with their own, and selling prints.

I honestly don't see the moral difference when someone comes along and says its 'legal' to do the same thing with text.

One can cite all the laws in the world to me, doesn't make it right. There's been some pretty screwball stuff made into law in the past and present. Ill stick with propriety and due respect for a creators work myself.^_~`
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[Troll Lord]

Dang! You trolls are all wound up and testy today!!!

Steve
_________________
The High Lord, Coburg the Undying

He who sits on the elephants back

Castle and Crusade Society
troll@trolllord.com

[serleran]

Don't get me started.

[tex]

gideon_thorne wrote:
But that hasn't stopped people from scrubbing my name of of several of my works of art, replacing it with their own, and selling prints.

That is a fundamentally different matter. Copying the work itself is substantially different from copying the ideas presented in the work, which is what I'm asserting it's okay to do without any permission.

Quote:
I honestly don't see the moral difference when someone comes along and says its 'legal' to do the same thing with text.

If it were the text itself it would be the same thing. Text is legally separate from the ideas text can communicate. Ideas cannot and never have been copyrightable; only particular renditions of them are.

Quote:
One can cite all the laws in the world to me, doesn't make it right. There's been some pretty screwball stuff made into law in the past and present. Ill stick with propriety and due respect for a creators work myself.^_~`

I agree that sometimes principles have to trump the laws. I'm in favor of living by principle myself; in fact I'm taking the principled position that sometimes creative freedom of expression and speech, to say nothing of freedom of thought, should outweigh intellectual property.

[gideon_thorne]

tex wrote:
That is a fundamentally different matter. Copying the work itself is substantially different from copying the ideas presented in the work, which is what I'm asserting it's okay to do without any permission.



If it were the text itself it would be the same thing. Text is legally separate from the ideas text can communicate. Ideas cannot and never have been copyrightable; only particular renditions of them are.

I think I've mentioned I'm fully aware of this, as I already stated.

Quote:
One can cite all the laws in the world to me, doesn't make it right. There's been some pretty screwball stuff made into law in the past and present. Ill stick with propriety and due respect for a creators work myself.^_~`

I agree that sometimes principles have to trump the laws. I'm in favor of living by principle myself; in fact I'm taking the principled position that sometimes creative freedom of expression and speech, to say nothing of freedom of thought, should outweigh intellectual property.[/quote]

And, again, we go back to my original post, where I simply suggested that its needful, polite, and responsible to go through Steve to use the mentioned 'expression' of a TLG idea.

Polite and responsible trumping the unfettered and ofttimes irresponsible use of freedom IMHO any day. ^_~`
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[tex]

gideon_thorne wrote:
I think I've mentioned I'm fully aware of this, as I already stated.

Okay, fair enough, so long as everybody realizes permission is a matter of politeness and what you call responsibility, rather than legal necessity. : ]

[gideon_thorne]

shadowheart469 wrote:
Not sure if this is the right forum or not.

The question I have is, if the SIEGE engine can be used to develop new, free (or for that matter, commercial) RPGs.

I am aware of several SIEGE engine products under development but as far as I know all such developers are closely assocaited with, if not working for TLG.

Oops, my bad, this should go in the SIEGE engine forum!

Not without a license from TLG.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[voynich]

as i understand it, nearly all the siege engine games are actually being published by troll lord games. of the ones that are not, such as those by beyond belief games, and the one(s) by serleran in development (it would appear that game company is being called atomic clock enterprises) are licensed or have been given explicit permission to do so. but, that is based only on what i have read on these, and other, forums in regards to this question. so, yes, it is possible, but maybe asking first is prudent?
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[Breakdaddy]

If you are interested in creating such an RPG you should contact Steve Chenault at the number listed on the contact page. He can probably get you squared away.

[shadowheart469]

OK, thanks for the info all. Appreciate it.