Troll Lord Games

Does anyone know if there have been any talks about re-releasing any of the necro-troll d20 release for C&C? I've bought Fane of the Witch king and I quite liked it despite the variuos half-breed creatures.

It couldn't be that difficult to convert (Goodman has done it) and it might open up another market fot NG

Just a thought

Morty
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I don't think the subject has come up, or, if it has, its been very private -- no idea, really. I'd like to see Barakus and Mother of All Encounter Tables.

Clark Peterson of Necro has made it pretty clear he doesn't want to do anything with C&C. He wants to go as completely 4E as he can.
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I think "No chance in hell" is a fairly safe bet, considering Clark's many comments on the matter.
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Peter Bradley

That's too bad...

Can't say I understand the sentiment, but...

More business sent to those who do support C&C I guess
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Whoa...whoa...wait just one freaking minute!

Are you telling me that Necromancer has snubbed C&C for whatever reason?

The "1st Edition feel" company is not working with the best 1st Edition feel game system?

What gives there?

Please do tell.

To put it as nicely as I can, Clark seems to be a WOTC fanboy.
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Or... to put it even nicer... Clark seems to like the 'crunch' that 3.x and 4th seem to offer.
I like a bunch of the past Necromancer Games products line, but I've pretty much acquired those I was interested in.

M
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Well this completely changes how I perceive NG then. I always hailed them as old school but...

Well I'm just a bit dissapointed with them then.

Now they must be a Paizo crunchy.

Joe wrote:
Well this completely changes how I perceive NG then. I always hailed them as old school but...

Well I'm just a bit dissapointed with them then.

Now they must be a Paizo crunchy.

Well, at least Paizo is inclined to do C&C stuff.
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moriarty777 wrote:
Or... to put it even nicer... Clark seems to like the 'crunch' that 3.x and 4th seem to offer.
M

Interesting... and too bad as well. Personally, I would love to see a C&C version of Rappan Athuk and Tomb of Abysthor.

I don't quite understand why Necromancer Games released Rappan Attack Reloaded in such limited form either. What kind of marketing is that?

Can you imagine if the Upper Works was only going to have a limited 1,000 copy print run? I think we would all be pretty upset about that.

But I digress... Clark can embrace 4E all he wants. It's going to go down in history as the worst version of D&D ever made.

I wouldn't go that far. While not liked by some 4e has some following so far. And after looking through it I do have to say I am interested in it. And I'm not the only person that swore he wouldn't touch it that feels that way.
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I hardly need to defend Clark Peterson, or NG, but I think he has been fairly clear in stating that he loves D&D, and that he philosophically believes it to be his duty (and perhaps in his company's interest?) to support the latest incarnation of D&D. Whatever he may think in private about 4e (maybe he loves it, maybe he doesn't), the publicly stated reason is that he thinks it is his duty to support the current edition, whether it is 3e, 3.5e or 4e.

as for his problems with C&C, there I have little clue. I sure would like to see some of the NG things redone, or at least licensed a la Goodman, for C&C.

but to call him a WotC fanboy is a bit extreme, IMO.
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Ok how bout a liver lillied Wotc fanboy girly man?

Just kidding.

I just think the "1st Edition Feel" motto and C&C would go hand in hand without having to think much about it.

As for swearing not to touch 4E, and then breaking that oath...well I think one must first break the oath by actually opening and reading the material before their defenses are broken down.

I saw enough with their stuff released online and their marketing ploys to realize I AM NOT in their target audience.

No tears shed there...I thought 3.5 combat was slow, I can just imagine how slow it creeps with all the hit points and powers now.

Someone said Paizo was willing to do C&C stuff. Anything you can point me to?

I have zero interest in a modified 3.5 named Pathfinder, but would like to see what they produce for C&C.

From where I sit by reading his comments I think Fanboy is as correct a term as can be publicly used.
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And to clarify I like 3.X as much as I do C&C. All for differing reasons. I like the feel of C&C being more classic without wading through the clunky rules of an older edition, and I like the 'tweaking' factors that 3.x offers.

I too think that the 1e feel that Necro talks of would fit C&C. I'm puzzled by Clark thinking he has a 'duty' to D&D. That reeks of fanboy or at least the type of extremist gamer that brings things into existence that start with O.
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hmm... perhaps you mean something else by "fanboy" than what I have come to understand it to mean.

Wikipedia on Fanboy:

"Fanboy (sometimes spelled fanboi) is a term used to describe an individual who is devoted to a single subject in an emotional or fanatical manner, or to a single point of view within that subject, often to the point where it is considered an obsession."

While NG (and Clark P.) have enthusiastically supported 3e (and 3.5) from the get-go, I find it hard to claim that Clark is "a WotC fanboy" in the sense of emotionally or fanatically devoted to WotC. In fact, the reason that so many of us like NG products (even if we prefer C&C), is that NG's products were not like those of WotC.

but maybe you just like being dismissive.
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Geleg wrote:
...but maybe you just like being dismissive.

Hey, let's keep it a little less pointed please. I kid around a lot, but this strikes me as baiting.

EDIT: Id also be remiss if I didnt point out that calling someone a fanboy (especially someone with esteem in the gaming community) can be considered baiting as well, so please let's keep that to a minimum.

Breakdaddy wrote:
Hey, let's keep it a little less pointed please. I kid around a lot, but this strikes me as baiting.

EDIT: Id also be remiss if I didnt point out that calling someone a fanboy (especially someone with esteem in the gaming community) can be considered baiting as well, so please let's keep that to a minimum.

Ya, if folks want it more pointed, they need to go master their bating elsewhere.
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Breakdaddy wrote:
Hey, let's keep it a little less pointed please. I kid around a lot, but this strikes me as baiting.

EDIT: Id also be remiss if I didnt point out that calling someone a fanboy (especially someone with esteem in the gaming community) can be considered baiting as well, so please let's keep that to a minimum.

This is the problem with 4e, its riping the gaming community apart. its sad If 3pps have modules that can convert to other systems, that's good biz. Green Ronin is even doing freeport for c&c last I looked. Going "elite" is just saying im better than you because I play x game, ultimate the companys that will do well are the ones that make people happy. TLGs talks to us and treats us with hospitality and respect, the same for Green Ronin and a fiew others.

In that regard 4e/WOTH is failing badly.
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Awww Craap.

Clark Peterson prefers more rules-heavy games. Not good or bad, just his (apparent) preference.Davis likes Rolemaster, but we like him anyway...
I also believe Clark P. thinks there is far more money in supporting D&D than C&C. Which doesn't preclude NG doing the Goodman Games route and just publishing C&C versions of older NG product. Hell, I'd volunteer to do the C&C conversions though I think Melan would do a better job on such.

That and I'd just like to see Tegel Manor out for C&C.
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Always remember, as a first principle of all D&D: playing BtB is not now, never was and never will be old school.- Tim Kask, Dragonsfoot

Speaking of. Goodman is looking for writers for original, not converted DCC, C&C material.

Straight from the horses mouth.
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Peter Bradley

Hmmm. Might have to contact him and see what terms he's offering.
Thanks for the info,

Mike
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Always remember, as a first principle of all D&D: playing BtB is not now, never was and never will be old school.- Tim Kask, Dragonsfoot

Geleg wrote:
In fact, the reason that so many of us like NG products (even if we prefer C&C), is that NG's products were not like those of WotC.

but maybe you just like being dismissive.

Some of Necro's stuff is good. I'm pretty Meh about the Wilderlands and CSIO I Like Barakus and aside from, an entry that should not be,(removed thanks to mister black magic marker) I find the original ToH a nice companion to the WOTC Monster books (MM, MMII and FF anyway). But I'm the same about WOTC's stuff. Some is good some isn't.

Dismissive though, well maybe, I can be. But the dismissive tone that Clark has taken to C&C may be what fueled my dismissivness of CP. Clark has wrote C&C off with no explanation. And though he doesn't have to give one and explanation of why he won't touch C&C would be nice as well as listening to those of us who would make it worth Necro trying some C&C.

If nothing else Bill can come to TLG and let Clark chase the WOTC rainbow.
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Breakdaddy wrote:
Hey, let's keep it a little less pointed please. I kid around a lot, but this strikes me as baiting.

EDIT: Id also be remiss if I didnt point out that calling someone a fanboy (especially someone with esteem in the gaming community) can be considered baiting as well, so please let's keep that to a minimum.

Revered in your universe but not mine. The point is taken though.
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Julian Grimm wrote:
Revered in your universe but not mine. The point is taken though.

I dont even know the guy and my fandom for Necromancer extends only to my good friend Casey Christofferson (no offense to any of the others of course).

PS- I am delighted that Casey is now working so closely with TLG on C&C stuff!

Casey has always been close to TLG -- he's helped out on other d20 material, such as some modules and Winter Runes.

gideon_thorne wrote:
Speaking of. Goodman is looking for writers for original, not converted DCC, C&C material.

Straight from the horses mouth.

Cool! Um... should I drop him a PM or is there a link on the Goodman Games forums or site for submissions / proposals?

I've got a couple things on the back burner (and still needs quite a bit of work) but I'd certainly be interested.

M
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moriarty777 wrote:
Cool! Um... should I drop him a PM or is there a link on the Goodman Games forums or site for submissions / proposals?

I've got a couple things on the back burner (and still needs quite a bit of work) but I'd certainly be interested.

M

I believe there's a section on the Goodman website for writer submissions.
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Peter Bradley

I think the bottom line with Clark is he is not a full time publisher and all he wishes to do is put what effort he is able to put together in only one direction, and one which will hopefully garner Necromancer and their writers/artists/etc... the best chances at some money. So 4E.

IF he was a company like Goodman or TLG then maybe he would give consideration to something like C&C. If C&C gets big enough that the modules consistently sell around a 1,000 or more copies each, then he may jump on sooner.

As for me, I have realized I am re entering an old phase of my gaming. One where I concentrate on one system, and only one system, for my fantasy gaming. C&C is it. Finances are definitely a big factor in this for me, but 4E is just so "Ho hum" to me I can't get excited about even the modules. Except the one DCC with Fat Dragon stuff in it.

So for me to buy anything 4E its going to have to create a lot of buzz, that I like the sounds of, or have Fat Dragon stuff in it. Other then that it better have a C&C logo on it, or be for some other RPG I like playing/running.

Which includes Necromancer, despite how much I liked how they did a lot of 3E material.

Heck, right now I can't even afford to come even close to keeping up with the Pathfinder stuff. So I'll just worry about C&C stuff, and wish Necromancer the best of luck with their 4E efforts.

If Goodman wants me to keep buying his 4E DCC's he better keep partnering up with Fat Dragon.
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