Judges Guild

[DangerDwarf]

seskis281 wrote:
So what is it? All I can think of is that too many people think you HAVE to have a d20 logo or WOTC "D&D" logo to be "real" (and as we have seen, the "d20" marker does not mean quality).

I think that's a part of it, the fanboy mentality there can be a bit rampant at times.

Most fail to understand that Wilderlands 3.5 stuff by NG never did sell to well (which I think is a shame). I think that doing it for C&C will be a better move.

[Geleg]

@Seskis281

Yeah, I'm still over at ENworld naively trying to get people to look at the setting rather than the system. Now it's true that I'm a convert to the Crusade, but if I'd never heard of C&C I'd STILL buy the whole product line. I just don't get it.

[But here's one possible explanation: the big dog in any socio-economic or political system is the one likely to draw all the flak from less dominant or less numerous 'dogs' (companies); perhaps it's inevitable then that folks who strongly identify with 3.5 become defensive with the very appearance of anything other than 3.5, since they take that very appearance as a threat to their dominance (and their own identity) EVEN WHEN the lesser dogs are in no way actively challenging the big one. That is, the only way to stay reassured in your dominance is to trash any perceived competitors, no matter how benign. R.I. Moore's _Birth of Persecuting Society_ makes a similar point about the development of stronger state institutions in the 12th century: a byproduct of this tighter and more stable governmental system was a much more active (and sometimes more paranoid) persecution of anything deemed 'other.' But enough philosophizing for today ... I should let Akrasia do that, anyway]

Geleg

[sieg]

John Right....Hey, check out DF 11: Guide to the Realms of Aedenne on dragonsfoot. You have to start as a fan author to get going as a freelancer. As such, you're on your way!

BTW, halfway through your books...looking good!

Gelleg, You may have hit the nail on the head with that.
_________________
Always remember, as a first principle of all D&D: playing BtB is not now, never was and never will be old school.- Tim Kask, Dragonsfoot

[Catweazle]

Looks very interesting indeed. I'm not much of a one for pregen settings (the last one I bought was Planescape ten years ago*), but, well, you never know. Everyone needs a wee bit of help from time to time.

*That was ten years ago? Holy crap!
_________________
History teaches us that men behave wisely once they've exhausted all other alternatives.

[Thulcondar]

Emryys wrote:
I do have everything Greyhawk...

O RLY?

I just scored the coloring book on eBay. The one with the map/picture of Dyvers in it. And how's your copy of "Egg of the Phoenix" doing?

Sorry... feeling snarky. You know us crochety Gognards...

Thul

[cleaverthepit]

Its not a rumor. I believe Steve is hashing everything out at Gen Con.

Very good news.

Steve has also made a few good deals otherwise. He will post an let everyone know when he gets back.

Davis

[Treebore]

Oh, he is definitely wheeling and dealing. I can't wait to hear what all the "final" decisions and agreements are. Assuming they even do get finalized by the end of today.

[Tadhg]

cleaverthepit wrote:
Its not a rumor. I believe Steve is hashing everything out at Gen Con.

Very good news.

Steve has also made a few good deals otherwise. He will post an let everyone know when he gets back.

Davis

Great. Hope the Con was good for all. Looking forward to more info on this!
_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

[jamesmishler]

Hi all!

This is not a rumor... it's all real and true. Wilderlands of High Adventure will be my version of the Wilderlands of High Fantasy, designed and approved for Castles & Crusades. An official press release will be forthcoming later this week, from Adventure Games Publishing, Troll Lords, and Judges Guild.

The list of products scheduled for 2007 is, indeed, aggressive. I plan on being very aggressive with this product line. I might not hit all those releases, but I sure as hell will try. I will eventually be taking on collaborators on the various projects, as, while I can write quickly, I'm not *that* fast..

The first products will probably be out end of the year, if my timeline hits best possible scenario, or in January if not. These will be the High Class books, which add a ton of options for C&C classes in the Wilderlands, and include the Wilderlands versions of specific rules and such to fit the setting. The Wizards and Witches book will have new spells, the Amazons and Knights book will have new weapons, and so forth. There will also be core "quasi-rule" elements of the WoHA setting that will be found in these books that will be needed for all the setting, but will not be repeated in every product... things like Social Class charts, and so forth. (The truly core WoHA material will be available in PDF format online, if the Judge does not want to use the optional classes.) All the new classes will be used in the various products, but there will also be a conversion list to allow Judges using standard C&C to re-task the classes.

I chose C&C as the system because I much prefer it to 3.5, and it was, IMOP, a much better fit for Wilderlands of High Adventure than 3.5. Besides, the Wilderlands of High Fantasy products by Necromancer Games more than adequately cover the Wilderlands of High Fantasy (hell, they most excellently cover it, for all that I do not, myself, much like 3.5). Plus, the market for C&C is growing, while the market for d20 is shrinking... sure, there may be more players of d20 than of C&C, and there may ALWAYS be more, but, there are more people buying C&C every day, while more and more people have stopped buying d20 products. I track these numbers as my day job, and right now, the only d20 products that outsell Castles & Crusades in the hobby market are the Dungeon Crawl Classics. And C&C has not hit its stride by a long shot... it has nowhere to go but up, while most d20 sales will only continue to drop. Only those games with a definitive branded network will survive in the coming years, and I believe C&C is in the best position to be the strongest such product.

Anyhoo, I just got back from Gen Con, and am exhausted... so more later this week. I should have the Adventure Games Publishing website up and running this week, so check it out in a couple of days... and please feel free to ask questions here until I get the AGP forums up and running. Thanks!
www.adventuregamespubs.com

[serleran]

I, for two, am greatly looking forward to this material.

[Ivid]

jamesmishler wrote:
Hi all!

This is not a rumor... it's all real and true. Wilderlands of High Adventure will be my version of the Wilderlands of High Fantasy, designed and approved for Castles & Crusades. An official press release will be forthcoming later this week, from Adventure Games Publishing, Troll Lords, and Judges Guild.

The list of products scheduled for 2007 is, indeed, aggressive. I plan on being very aggressive with this product line. I might not hit all those releases, but I sure as hell will try. I will eventually be taking on collaborators on the various projects, as, while I can write quickly, I'm not *that* fast..

The first products will probably be out end of the year, if my timeline hits best possible scenario, or in January if not. These will be the High Class books, which add a ton of options for C&C classes in the Wilderlands, and include the Wilderlands versions of specific rules and such to fit the setting. The Wizards and Witches book will have new spells, the Amazons and Knights book will have new weapons, and so forth. There will also be core "quasi-rule" elements of the WoHA setting that will be found in these books that will be needed for all the setting, but will not be repeated in every product... things like Social Class charts, and so forth. (The truly core WoHA material will be available in PDF format online, if the Judge does not want to use the optional classes.) All the new classes will be used in the various products, but there will also be a conversion list to allow Judges using standard C&C to re-task the classes.

I chose C&C as the system because I much prefer it to 3.5, and it was, IMOP, a much better fit for Wilderlands of High Adventure than 3.5. Besides, the Wilderlands of High Fantasy products by Necromancer Games more than adequately cover the Wilderlands of High Fantasy (hell, they most excellently cover it, for all that I do not, myself, much like 3.5). Plus, the market for C&C is growing, while the market for d20 is shrinking... sure, there may be more players of d20 than of C&C, and there may ALWAYS be more, but, there are more people buying C&C every day, while more and more people have stopped buying d20 products. I track these numbers as my day job, and right now, the only d20 products that outsell Castles & Crusades in the hobby market are the Dungeon Crawl Classics. And C&C has not hit its stride by a long shot... it has nowhere to go but up, while most d20 sales will only continue to drop. Only those games with a definitive branded network will survive in the coming years, and I believe C&C is in the best position to be the strongest such product.

Anyhoo, I just got back from Gen Con, and am exhausted... so more later this week. I should have the Adventure Games Publishing website up and running this week, so check it out in a couple of days... and please feel free to ask questions here until I get the AGP forums up and running. Thanks!
www.adventuregamespubs.com

Hi James! This is a good thing! Especially after my little rant in the *End the Silence* thread over at the NG boards, I am very happy that you took the line over.

[moriarty777]

I admit that I haven't heard much about it before and starting looking into it... I am definately intrigued and very much exited about this project!

Many thanks in advance for the long hours that will go into this!

Moriarty the Red
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[Omote]

When I saw the flyer at GENCON for the Wilderlands of High Fantasy for C&C I nearly passed out! That was some sweet news indeed. I could not believe how amped up James seemed to be when talking about this project, it was like fireworks. Defintely looking forward to seeing this product released.

Good luck James and the AGP crew!

This collaboration will make C&C house, baby!

Damn good news.

...........................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[Combat_Kyle]

Looks interesting, but I am going to focus on my homebrew campaign world for a while. Though I will pick up an occasional module for my GF who is running a C&C campaign. I may check this out for her.
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"My goddess touched me at an early age."

-Grikis Valmorgen, Paladin

The beginnings of my homebrew campaign world and info for my play by chat game:
http://kbdekker.googlepages.com/home

[jamesmishler]

Argh!

I swear, if one more d20 fanatic flings his anti-C&C rhetoric at me, I'm gonna do something really ugly.

C&C fans are awesome. You are all going to sooo be rewarded for being so cool.

Just sayin'...

[Tadhg]

jamesmishler wrote:
Argh!

I swear, if one more d20 fanatic flings his anti-C&C rhetoric at me, I'm gonna do something really ugly.

C&C fans are awesome. You are all going to sooo be rewarded for being so cool.

Just sayin'...

Hehe, just ignore those bastardos, what do they know?
And thanks, I'm looking forward to seeing your completed work, James! 8)
_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

[Akrasia]

One thing that is not entirely clear with the list of promised products is what (if anything) constitutes the 'core book'.

Is it assumed that the Necromancer Games Player's Guide to the Wilderlands will continue to be the 'core book' (despite being d20)? Or will there be no 'core book' at all?

If there is no 'core book' that should be made clear to potential customers.

(Since I already own all of NG's products for the Wilderlands, plus some original JG material as well, this question does not affect me personally. However, potential customers might be confused. I know from a related thread at RPG.net that there is some confusion out there regarding this matter.)
_________________
While it is unlikely to interest most of you, here is my 'cunning' blog: http://dailyakrasia.blogspot.com/

[angelius]

Old Skool forever!
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[Omote]

It seems to me like there will, definitely be NO core products. AGPs books will forms the tapestry of the world without diving into the grander setting all at once.

...................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[gideon_thorne]

jamesmishler wrote:
Argh!

I swear, if one more d20 fanatic flings his anti-C&C rhetoric at me, I'm gonna do something really ugly.

C&C fans are awesome. You are all going to sooo be rewarded for being so cool.

Just sayin'...

My sides still ache from reading the 'really ugly'.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[Akrasia]

Omote wrote:
It seems to me like there will, definitely be NO core products. AGPs books will forms the tapestry of the world without diving into the grander setting all at once.

...................................Omote

FPQ

Okay, but if this is the case this should be quite clear to potential customers.

The existence of the Necromancer Games' d20 line of Wilderlands products -- including especially the box set and the Players' Guide -- makes things confusing, at least for people not already heavily into the Wilderlands.

I have no problem with describing a campaign setting sans 'core book' (it worked fine for the 'Known World'/'Mystara' with the Gazetteers), but the existing range of Wilderlands products could make people uncertain as to what they 'need' to get.
_________________
While it is unlikely to interest most of you, here is my 'cunning' blog: http://dailyakrasia.blogspot.com/

[sieg]

Apologies if this was covered earlier and I missed it, but what is the planned fate of Tegel Manor? Will it still be D20 or be C&C instead?

(The latter-OhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPleaseOhPlease!!!)

_________________
Always remember, as a first principle of all D&D: playing BtB is not now, never was and never will be old school.- Tim Kask, Dragonsfoot

[Treebore]

Necromancer is still doing the release. Looks like a 64 page modules with some super kick-ass maps. On vinyl, if I understood things correctly. Pricey, but considering how sweet the "example" vinyl map was, I'm buying!

[serleran]

As far as I know, Tegel is the last of the NG/JG products, meaning it will be released in d20 format. However, the author has stated he will make a C&C conversion available as a download, meaning... you'd still have to own the product to make it of use, but at least you'll not have to do all the "work" to get it to flow right.

[jamesmishler]

At this point, I do not plan a single "core" book that will be a must-have. The High Class Books are the closest that comes to a "core" book, as, to use the WoHA products to their fullest, you will need the optional rules included therein. But that's just it... those will all be optional rules for regular play (though they will be required rules for tournament and organized play).

Each of the Player's Guides and Judge's Gazetteer's will make up a "core" unit for the region... you will not need to buy any other region books, player or Judge, to run the other regions. Each Wilderness Book will be set within a specific region as described in a guide/gaz pairing, but can be dropped into any other setting or used as its own setting as the Judge desires. Adventure Modules will also be independent, though there will be a canonical location for the module in the WoHA.

Essentially, it is a modular system of books that work together, but can work individually, as much or as little as the Judge wishes...

[sieg]

Well, while I'd have preferred Tegel being C&C, I suppose I can live with the D20 version with a C&C conversion sheet.
BTW, anyone know if the author (melan) is going to use the JG Tegel exclusively for baseline, the Gamescience one, or both? Or neither?
While I like the term Castle Keeper, ist SO nice to see the term "Judge" used again.
_________________
Always remember, as a first principle of all D&D: playing BtB is not now, never was and never will be old school.- Tim Kask, Dragonsfoot

[Treebore]

I'm betting Melan will use the original most, if not exclusively. Everything for JG has been done off of the "original" material. So I doubt Melan would use anything that isn't canon material.

[Melan]

The Tegel revision is based exclusively on Bob Bledsaw & Bill Owen's original module. I own and appreciate the Gamescience version (although it makes some changes I really dislike - removing Tsathoggus, why?), but I used the JG version as a baseline. My design goals were threefold:

1) Preserve the quirky and whimsical feel and OD&D attitude of the module as well as possible while bringing it closer to modern publishing requirements. That means no bowing before false gods like game balance or dungeon ecology.

2) Expand on the material by detailing the village and the wilderness, which was two pages total in the original release. A few mini-dungeons are included (you can sorta figure out what these are by looking at the wilderness map).

3) Add more things to do in the manor rooms. This might be my most controversial design decision. I believe a minor weakness of the original was that in many cases, the PCs were just passive observers - the rooms would present a ghostly apparition or strange haunting and that would be it. I tried to make things a bit more interactive. This was especially relevant in the dungeons, where the key was extremely sparse.

+1) A few extras are also included, but these shall remain a surprise - let's just say I am pretty proud of them.
The module is going to be d20. Necromancer is in the d20 business and they have indicated that they don't wish to branch into other systems, and C&C/whatever fans will have to deal with this fact (myself included ). But I will provide a C&C conversion in the form of a free download, and maybe a document full of stat sheets, so you may keep track of who has been eliminated on the Rump family tree, etc.

[Melan]

Treebore wrote:
Necromancer is still doing the release. Looks like a 64 page modules with some super kick-ass maps. On vinyl, if I understood things correctly. Pricey, but considering how sweet the "example" vinyl map was, I'm buying!

64 pages? Sounds like some serious editing - which may be a good thing considering I can be pretty verbose at times. The manuscript is cca. 100 or 110 pages if we use 750 words per page as a baseline.

I didn't like the vinyl idea but hey.

[Akrasia]

jamesmishler wrote:
... Each of the Player's Guides and Judge's Gazetteer's will make up a "core" unit for the region... you will not need to buy any other region books, player or Judge, to run the other regions...

That sounds like a good format (similar to the old Gazetteers for the Known World/Mystara, albeit broken up into separate players' and judges' books in this case).
_________________
While it is unlikely to interest most of you, here is my 'cunning' blog: http://dailyakrasia.blogspot.com/