Wilderlands of High Fantasy: High Class Books Question

Akrasia · Post by **Akrasia** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:17 pm

The two books sound very interesting, James. I look forward to seeing them in 2007.

_________________
While it is unlikely to interest most of you, here is my 'cunning' blog: http://dailyakrasia.blogspot.com/

johns · Post by **johns** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:58 pm

I like the two book concept, and I'd probably buy both of them even though I don't plan on running a Wilderlands campaign.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:14 pm

I think it's also important to remember that everything in the WOHA books are going to be setting specific, not offical C&C rules. I personally look forward to this. Thanks for the update JM.

.....................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

sieg · Post by **sieg** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:13 pm

Those two books sound good...and I'd purchase 'em!
_________________
Always remember, as a first principle of all D&D: playing BtB is not now, never was and never will be old school.- Tim Kask, Dragonsfoot

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:18 pm

Yeah, will definately pick up those two.

Emryys · Post by **Emryys** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:58 pm

Definately the first one and I'll have a good look at the second
_________________

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:01 am

Emryys wrote:
Definately the first one and I'll have a good look at the second

Ditto. And they can't get released soon enough!
_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:04 am

I've never been big on psionics in any gaming variation... I alowed them but let my players know my stance before making a psionic character based class. Everytime, my little spiel somehow detered them

But I'm willing to take a look and depending what else this book seems to offer, but it. The first one mentioned is a definate buy. Unfortunately, 2007 is still months away!!

Moriarty the Red
_________________
"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

sieg · Post by **sieg** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:15 pm

I'm with Moriarty, though I don't mind monsters with Psionics...just players.
But every system I've seen in a FRPG seems either too weird or too cumbersome. I'll give this one a try though!
_________________
Always remember, as a first principle of all D&D: playing BtB is not now, never was and never will be old school.- Tim Kask, Dragonsfoot

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:25 pm

I don't like Psionics either, but I buy and look at such material because I am waiting for the day to find the product that does psionics in a manner I would want to use.

Maybe this will be the time.

Akrasia · Post by **Akrasia** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:34 pm

I'm not normally a fan of psionics as well (sheesh, is there anyone here who is?).

But they seem to have a place in the Wilderlands (unlike many fantasy settings, where they seem 'tacked on'), so I'd be willing to look at some new rules for them with an open mind.
_________________
While it is unlikely to interest most of you, here is my 'cunning' blog: http://dailyakrasia.blogspot.com/

malchidael · Post by **malchidael** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:51 am

James,

Having only two, rather than 5 class books has pretty much guaranteed that I'll pick them up.

Severite · Post by **Severite** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:36 pm

Well, I have the new CSIO and the Wilderlands box set, and I have to admit, while I like the general setting stuff, I am much less impressed with the presentation with the stat blocks, so I would need to go through and rewrite the stats; but, since I am developing my own little world anyway, it doesn't make much difference. Overall, they seem to rely on heavy 3.5 edition stuff ( yes, I can see it's D20)

Anyway, to the point=)

For me to buy more of anything I would want to know what format these books would take, if they are based on 3.5 PH (which is fine overall, but too much for me slog through), then I can pass it up. If it is a little streamlined then I may be persuaded to pick it up. So, anywho, thats my 2 cents, not that anyone cares what I think

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:40 pm

Bear in mind that James' projects are being done for C&C. So the stat blocks will be that minimal:)
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

Severite · Post by **Severite** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:55 pm

Really? Im not familiar with this at all, what does he have out so far? And where can I find it?

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:00 pm

Severite wrote:
Really? Im not familiar with this at all, what does he have out so far? And where can I find it?

There's nothing out for it yet. But James has co oped with Bob Bledsaw in bringing his own Judges Guild campaign into print.

This is a list, subject to the modifications in line up discussed in this thread:

Quote:
Coming in 2007

Wilderlands of High Adventure

Campaign Installments, Adventure Modules, and Sourcebooks

From Adventure Games Publishing under license from Judges Guild and Troll Lord Games.

The first fantasy role-playing game campaign setting ever published the legendary Wilderlands of High Fantasy will be re-released in a newly revised and expanded edition.

Designed and approved for use with

Castles & Crusades

Based upon the 25+ year-long campaign of James Mishler a primary author of Necromancer Games Players Guide to the Wilderlands and Wilderlands of High Fantasy Boxed Set the Wilderlands of High Adventure campaign setting re-invigorates the classic swords & sorcery Wilderlands of High Fantasy setting with a modern, grim-and-gritty epic-fantasy style. Eventually, all 18 regions of the Wilderlands of High Adventure will be detailed in a modular series of campaign installments including vast empires and savage wilderness to the smallest details of hamlet, dungeon, and grotto and all elements can readily be dropped into any other fantasy setting!

From

Adventure Games Publishing
www.adventuregamespubs.com

(Website will go live soon...)

Fine products from Adventure Games Publishing, coming in 2007

The High Class Guides for the Wilderlands of High Adventure include all the classes that are found throughout most regions of the Wilderlands of High Adventure. Each book presents new classes as well as optional Wilderlands-specific versions of the classes found in the Castles & Crusades Players Handbook, plus new equipment, secondary skills, optional abilities, new spells, and other Wilderness of High Adventure-specific rules. 72 pages, saddle-stitched

AGP 01001

Amazons and Knights of the Wilderlands of High Adventure

$16.99

AGP 01002

Burglars and Burghers of the Wilderlands of High Adventure

$16.99

AGP 01003

Wizards and Witches of the Wilderlands of High Adventure

$16.99

AGP 01004

Prophets and Priests of the Wilderlands of High Adventure

$16.99

AGP 01005

Psychics of the Wilderlands of High Adventure

$16.99

The Judges Cyclopedias include new monsters, treasures, deities, timelines, historical maps, and other general setting materials that Judges need to run complete Wilderlands of High Adventure campaigns. 72 pages, saddle-stitched

AGP 01501

Monsters & Treasures I

$16.99

AGP 01502

Book of Unknown Gods I

$16.99

AGP 01503

Historical Atlas I

$16.99

The Players Guides to the Wilderlands of High Adventure include all general information a player needs to know about the specific races, cultures, regional classes, languages, realms, politics, laws, economics, religions, cults, guilds, equipment, spells, myths, legends, and rumors for an entire region. 48 pages, saddle-stitched

AGP 02001

Viridistan and the Falling Empire

$12.99

AGP 02002

Barbarian Altanis and the Kingdom of Antillia

$12.99

The Judges Gazetteers of the Wilderlands of High Adventure include information about each grand tactical region, including details on the geography, politics, religions, secrets, magic items, artifacts, hamlets, villages, towns, cities, castles, citadels, guilds, secret societies, lurid lairs, ravaged ruins, lost cities, and dungeons, plus tons of adventure ideas. Each comes complete with a full-color 17x22 map of the region at a 32-mile per inch scale, covering nearly 400,000 square miles of adventure! 72 pages, saddle-stitched with map

AGP 03001

Viridistan and the Falling Empire

$20.99

AGP 03002

Barbarian Altanis and the Kingdom of Antillia

$20.99

The Wilderlands of High Adventure Wilderness Books series intimately detail and describe specific districts and domains within each grand tactical region, and include a full-fledged campaign adventure and several minor adventures set in the district. Each comes complete with a full-color 17x22 map of the region at an 8-mile per inch scale, covering more than 20,000 square miles in intimate detail! 72 pages, saddle-stitched with map

Viridian Wilderness Books

AGP 04001

Book 1: The Satrap of Targnol Port and the Lords of Thistledown

$20.99

AGP 04002

Book 2: The Starrcrag Dwarves and the Obsidian Horde

$20.99

AGP 04003

Book 3: The Lady of the Lake and the Slithytove Wood

$20.99

The City States of the Wilderlands of High Adventure series completely detail the major metropolis and cities of the Wilderlands, including rulers, nobles, guilds, shops, craftsmen, temples, taverns, guards, thieves, and beggars, from the highest parapet to the deepest sewer. Each comes complete with a full-color map of the city state. 256-page HC

AGP 05001

City State Book 1: City State of the World Emperor

$39.99

The Adventure Module series of the Wilderlands of High Adventure continue the classic tradition of providing Judges with exciting, unusual, and detailed adventures for players to experience. Divided into the Beginner (1st-3rd level), Experienced (4th-9th level), Heroic (10th level+), and Campaign (1st to 12th+) Modules, these adventures provide the Judge with everything necessary to provide hours, days, or even weeks of Wilderlands adventure.

AGP 06001

Module B1: Goblin Warrens of Ukrak Morfut

32 pages

$10.99

AGP 06002

Module E1: Big Trouble in the Barradine Ruins

48 pages

$12.99

AGP 06003

Module H1: Against the Demon-King of Yahg Khosha

64 pages

$14.99

AGP 06004

Module C1: Valley of the Dead Queens

72 pages w/ map

$20.99

Titles, page counts, and Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price are subject to change.

Products are not listed in order of release release dates are yet to be determined.

_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

Severite · Post by **Severite** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:15 pm

So, these are all planned? That seems fairly cool, and I realize they wont be released in that order, but which is planned to be first? And is there a target month? Oh, and is there a company website (like goodman games), or are they going to be produced by the Troll Lords?

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:20 pm

Might check back on page 2 of this thread and look for James Mishler's posting on the topic. He's been answering questions in this thread and another here:
http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
http://www.adventuregamespubs.com/ This is James' site for these products.

Troll Lords will be handling printing and distribution I believe?
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

irda ranger · Post by **irda ranger** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:42 pm

Time for the Devil's Advocate.

jamesmishler wrote:
Hey everyone!

Do want to see additional rules for classes that more firmly define certain class-based archetypes, i.e., Anti-Paladins, Necromancers, Amazons, Mountebanks, Shamans, and etc., or do you feel that the classes as written in Castles & Crusades are broad enough to allow for these things with role-playing alone? If yes, why? If no, why not? And in either case, extrapolate as freely as you like on why you hold your opinion.

I cannot say this strongly enough: I do NOT want a class explosion (whether by Kit, Base Class, Prestige Class, Gestault, or otherwise). Only really strong archtypes which simply cannot be modeled using the classes in the C&C PHB should be fleshed out.

Quote:
Note that, in ANY case, the new classes would be optional,

Their use might be, but their purchase would NOT be optional if a purchaser wants the setting materials from the same volume. Also, once the "option" has been introduced players and DM's have to consciously decide what to use, what to exclude, and what to modify to fit it into the house rules they've already developed. Don't pretend that presenting new classes is a "costless option" to your customers.

I'll give some more specific feedback too:

Quote:
New Classes: Acrobat, Alchemist, Amazon, Anti-Paladin, Beggar, Berserker, Courtesan, Enchanter, Gladiator, Jester, Magician, Mountebank, Mycretian, Necromancer, Pirate, Priest, Sage, Shaman, Slaver, Summoner, Swashbuckler, Viking, and Witch;

Possibly OK: Acrobat, Alchemist, Amazon, Anti-Paladin, Necromancer, Priest, Shaman, Summoner, and Witch;
Not OK: Beggar, Berserker, Courtesan, Enchanter, Gladiator, Jester, Magician, Mountebank, Mycretian, Pirate, Sage, Shaman, Slaver, Swashbuckler, and Viking,

What's the difference? The classes in the first column have specific magical or physical traditions which cannot be modeled with the base classes and proper selection of Primes and background. The classes in the second category can.

Can anyone explain to me how a "Pirate" is different than a Thief or Dex-Prime Fighter with a sailing background and (optionally) a nautical skill set such as in Yggsburgh? How is a "Berzerker" different from a "Barbarian" that (maybe) knows how to read? What's the huge difference between a Magician and a Wizard? And how do you distinguish "Viking" from "Pirate" without mentioning they type of ships they sail? That I really want to know.
Special Note: Alchemist, Necromancer, Shaman, Summoner and Witch.

These classes are only in the "Possibly OK" category because I am giving the benefit of the doubt that there is more to them than a spell list and skill or two different from a Wizard. I can do that on my own. They would have to be at least as different from a Wizard as the Sha'ir was to be worth a seperate class.

Quote:
2) Core Class Modifications

Sounds good and useful. Also makes most of Section 1 irrelevant.

Quote:
3) Wilderlands-specific rules about magic;

4) The Wilderlands Social Caste and Class System (generally common to all regions, with local variations);

5) An official, if very light, skill system; and

7) Official combat rule additions.

All worth looking at, especially the campaign setting stuff. Any additions to the rules I am VERY leary of, as the "rules lite, non-3e" nature of C&C is what draws me to the system. Even a very lite skill system serves as a boundary on the player's and CK's imagination. Also, any skill system which is linked to level advancement (as opposed to time commitments or XP purchase costs) makes the game a little less free-form and natural ("What do you mean I spend two months on a pirate ship and never learn to sail?" "Well, you haven't leveled yet...")

Quote:
6) New common weapons and armor;

If all you did was explain the weapons and armor listed in the PHB, that would be worth it.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:46 pm

Mountebank

Well. From what Gary has told me about this particular class, its not easily modled by a single class. Multiclass maybe.

But with its combination of bard like persuasion, sleight of hand, minor illusion magics and a few other odds and ends I could see this one being a class. In fact I'm playing around with my own version.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:29 pm

Sounds like the 2E or 3E Bard. To a decent degree, anyways.

johns · Post by **johns** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:58 pm

The 2E bard translates very easily into C&C - just give them access to druid and illusionist spells (or only illusionist spells, if you prefer).

Wilderlands of High Fantasy: High Class Books Question

Re: Wilderlands of High Fantasy: High Class Books Question