Troll Lord Games

We're about due for a 4th printing at this point, so I thought I'd ask what other folks would like to see. In short:

1. Name one thing would like to see added to the game?

2. Name one thing would like to see changed/removed?

3. Rate the 3rd printing of the game from 1 (Worst.Game.EVAR.) to 10 (The Platonic Ideal of D&D and Old School Gaming).
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IMHO, AFAIK, YMMV.

1. Expanded spell lists.

2. Change the format. Races before classes in the book. Move the spells to the end of the book, they don't belong in the middle.

3. 8 (I'm going by the 2nd printing though, 3rd print would get knocked down to a 7 because of the crappy paper.).

Luther wrote:
1. Name one thing would like to see added to the game?

Rules for dual classing and multi classing.

Luther wrote:
2. Name one thing would like to see changed/removed?

The detailed encumbrance rules.

Luther wrote:
3. Rate the 3rd printing of the game from 1 (Worst.Game.EVAR.) to 10 (The Platonic Ideal of D&D and Old School Gaming).

8

1) SIEGE Engine explanations -- when and why

1a) Equipment explanations / images

2) Encumbrance gone

2a) Reversing race / class layout

3) 6

1) Spell lists expanded to SRD origins with Spell Schools

2)Monks

3) Don't have it yet.
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The Lord of Ravens
My blog

1: Multi-classing

2: Different color for the cover

3: 9
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Thomas A. Tullis

Fat Dragon Games
www.fatdragongames.com

Castles & Crusades...more D&D than D&D.

Fat Dragon Games wrote:
2: Different color for the cover

The cover color fo rthe 3rd printing is awful. I like the plain ol' creme of the 2nd Print though.

And that also reminds me. The font change for the cover in the 3rd print is kinda crummy too.

1) Classes expanded to level (since others have already said multi-classing and an expanded spell list )

2) Go back to the 2nd printing paper.

3) 9. It's darn near perfect, IMHO. I can get past the editing and layout faux pas. Tweak it a little (mostly with the suggestions in this thread) and it can score a knockout.

Bah!

1) I would add nothing -- I could have easily said multi-classing but as there will be no consensus on this I'd rather do without it and use my own.

2) I rather like the glossy paper now that I've been using it thank-you very much. Honestly there is nothing I'd remove. However, I'd have the encumbrance updated to match the errata and revisions on the board. This is something that should have been done for the 3rd printing as the sticky for it predates it.

3) A solid 9 -- fix some of those errata issues (and I'm not talking typos) and I'll gladly give it a 10.

M
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"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

Might sound like not worth mentioning, but the 3rd printing of the PHB pretty much is my fav of the printings. If I were to change anything, the only thing would be the paper and the few edits that slipped through. That's about it.

-O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

1. The Nomenclature of Pole Arms

2. Encumbrance

3. 8. 10 is an impossible score for Castles & Crusades because the platonic ideal was reached thirty years ago. Therefore we start at 9. -1 point because there are still niggling errata issues that have not been addressed from the second printing.
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NOTE TO ALL: If you don't like something I've said, PM me and tell me to my face, then give me a chance to set things right before you call a moderator.
My small homage to E.G.G.

Ah yes, Traveller reminds me that I still would love to see pictures of the arms and armor in the game. Some newbies just don't know what certain things are. Plus, C&C interest weapons like the sleeve tangler and the polish Hussar armor need to be depicted in those pages.

-O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

1 and 2: Drop those silly `type X' poison tables and bring back the originals. I think it adds a lot more flavor to say you're using `hemlock', or whatever. After all, fighters don't choose a `type 1 stabbing' weapon, they choose a `dagger'. So why should assassins get this ugly generic treatment?

For the record, i actually like the encumberance rules. Don't remove those.

-Fizz

Fizz wrote:
For the record, i actually like the encumberance rules. Don't remove those.

You're not alone. I do to.
-O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

1) An explanation of the difference between primes and attribute scores (e.g. why primes only modify SIEGE checks, and not, say, the # of languages). I do not think that any optional rules need to be added, since that is what the CKG is for.

2) An update of the erratta, including an overhaul of the weapons tables and encumberance system. Maybe the mechanical difference between composite and non-composite bows removed. It might be nice to specify which weapons are one or two handed, for which races.

3) I would give it an 8, additional editing should bump this up to a 9.

If I could change anything, I would punt the encumbrance rules and replace it with something simpler along the lines of each character can carry X weight based on strength score and each item was Y pounds and do away with the container rules entirely.

I would also organize the spell descriptions by caster type and level rather than an overall alphabetical list like we have now. I prefer the 1E PHB's organization of spell descriptions.

1. Name one thing would like to see added to the game?

More Spells and rules for Multi-/Dual Classing.

2. Name one thing would like to see changed/removed?

The encumberance rules could use a rewrite IMHO.

3. Rate the 3rd printing of the game from 1 (Worst.Game.EVAR.) to 10 (The Platonic Ideal of D&D and Old School Gaming).

A solid 9.
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Lord Aladar

Warden of the Welk Wood

Baron of the Castles & Crusades Society

The Poster formerly known as Alwyn

Senior Gamer - Member of the Senior RPG Tour

"NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSIT - At least not in Yu Gi Oh"
http://www.cncsociety.org/

1) add a complete full index. Yes the table of contents works to find something, but a good index would work faster.

2) change the encumberance to properly include the errata. Add alternate encumbrance in CKG (if anywhere other than house rules) I'm another crazy dude who likes the encumbrance rules as is. It's no more difficult to figure than adding weight in 1st ed, and acounting for the size of objects as well as weight is intuitively perfect.

3. 9
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Sir Dachda McKinty,

Margrave and Knight of Portlandia
Castles & Crusades Society

Just fix the errata and keep the game stable.
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~Adaen of Bridgewater, www.highadventuregames.com

Ooooohhhh, yeah, forgot about an index. The PHB could definately use an index in the back.
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Lord Aladar

Warden of the Welk Wood

Baron of the Castles & Crusades Society

The Poster formerly known as Alwyn

Senior Gamer - Member of the Senior RPG Tour

"NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSIT - At least not in Yu Gi Oh"
http://www.cncsociety.org/

Yeah, Index....Don't change anything.

Fix the Errata and Add an Index. Those are things that all of us can agree on (I think).

Changes to the core (changing the Barbarian, Monk, adding Multi-classing, adding spells in the core PHB, etc.) will be things that are contentious. Many people identify with C&C because they recognize things from AD&D....call it the nostalgia factor. That brings them in.....once they are there, many realize that it is a good game in its own right.

Cheers.....who knew you'd be wondering what to do with a 4th printing when you started this train.

~AoB
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~Adaen of Bridgewater, www.highadventuregames.com

2 Things -

I don't really care about the class/race category order, but I do wish these were ALPHABATIZED within the categories

Index. Yes please.

My rating: 8.5

Heh, I like both paper choices for different reasons, but if I picked I'd say back to the non-glossy myself.

And, perhaps it's time to go with a darker (deep red or blue) tone for the cover, like Shades of Mist or Towers of Adventure.

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John "Sir Seskis" Wright

Ilshara: Lands of Exile:
http://johnwright281.tripod.com/

High Squire of the C&C Society
www.cncsociety.org

boxcornersdiety wrote:
2) An update of the errata, including an overhaul of the weapons tables and encumbrance system.

Do you mean putting all the information into the correct spots in the tables in an errata document?
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NOTE TO ALL: If you don't like something I've said, PM me and tell me to my face, then give me a chance to set things right before you call a moderator.
My small homage to E.G.G.

1. Index

2. Opposed checks instead of straight Attribute checks for spotting and listening.

3. 9

Please, please, PLEASE don't touch encumbrance. It's already a very elegant system. More realistic than just tracking weight, because bulk is taken into account; yet not difficult to use.

I also thought the placement of the spell lists was perfect. All the back-of-the-book stuff is mostly for the CK's eyes.

As for multi-classing, etc., I think it's crucial to keep the core rulebooks rules-light, and use Crusader magazine and other supplements for extra material. It worked for the First RPG Ever. 1e plus Dragon magazine was a great system back in the day.

Fix errata.

Index would be nice, but my fingers are getting pretty good at finding the right spot automatically (IE I pretty much "know" which section of the book has whatever it is I am looking for). However it would likely be very handy to those learning the game, I know the one in the back of the Shadowrun book has been immensely helpful to me.

The changes/improvements in lay out Gideon talked about in the old thread about this will be great.

I would prefer the classes be alphabetized.

I too would prefer the old 1E spell format, but can live with the current one.

Encumbrance, I don't use any kind of encumbrance system other than "sounds good" or "thats too much, get rid of some stuff", so get rid of it for all I care.

I like the glossy paper, but can live with a return to the old paper, especially since the glossy paper was a mistake.

One change I would NOT like to see is a higher price, but I accept that this is likely unavoidable. I'll just hope you can keep the hike at under $25.

Your refusal to hike the price last time, even though you should have, has proven your integrity to me so that I won't question or complain even if you have to go to $30.00 this time. Others may scream, but I'll immediately accept it as what you have to do. It will be a long time until I buy one, but I'll do it when I need to.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

I'm surprised no one has said anything about the barbarian...

-Fizz

Fizz wrote:
I'm surprised no one has said anything about the barbarian...

-Fizz

Heh. I think the barbarian is servicable as is, but that's my lowly opinion.

The barbarian suffers from being a weak class in C&C compared to other, better classes. However, the class can be played as is with no modification. I just think that those who do play would rather end up playing a fighter. But it still works.

-O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

In reverse order (just because....)

3) I've only ever seen 1st edition PHB, so I can't really rate the latest

2) Errata - I know that this isn;t 'take something away' but I would like some of the bits and pieces fixed (such as missing levels in exp tables and typos - I know many of these were corrected from 1st ed)

1) (a) Table of class abilities by level (either in class section or seperate table)

(b) A couple of pages of key monster and treasure stats (so that, as stated in 1st ed. you can have enough to play the game in ONE book!)

I personally would like to see multi-classing rules, critical rules, creating classes and such rules additions kept to the CKG, with the 'core' of the game in the PHB.

Cheers

D.

1. include updated errata in to the body of work, including encubrance errata. Include multi-class rules (unless they are to be in the CKG).

2. INDEX!!!!!!

3. 8.994 out of 10