How sad is this?

tylermo · Post by **tylermo** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:07 pm

Ah, yes. Real spells. That's one of the best parts of the Chick tract. Of course, the Parker Bros. Ouija boards have real power, as well. I once asked the board(in the early 80's) if my mom loved my step dad, and the board said yes. And, not because we moved the plastic lens thingy to the "yes" answer. Those evil Parker Bros.(whom we know little about) had possessed me.

sieg · Post by **sieg** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:25 pm

There are weirdos in every group, every religion, and every pasttime. Alas, they can give groups bad names.

I remember having a discussion with a fundamentalist who said he hated Muslims because of 9-11. I replied that its unfair to judge the religion by a few nutjobs. After all, how many Christians would want to be judged by the Waco guys?

Back OT, a friend of mine's wife was taught that D&D was Satanic and didn't want him playing it (or C&C). But online and computer RPGs were fine.
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cinderblock · Post by **cinderblock** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:50 pm

Yep cause the devil doesn't have an online account but he does have a library card.

Coleston the Cavalier · Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:09 pm

serleran wrote:
I will be.

Indeed!
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:06 am

Coleston the Cavalier wrote:
As a pastor, I take heat every year because we decorate for Halloween and our kids trick or treat.

Other pastors in town always ask me, "Wouldn't you rather have a harvest festival?" I always respond, "But that's pagan and I don't want to sacrifice a virgin. Are you sacrificing a virgin at your church's harvest festival this year?"

*Apologies to my Pagan friends*

Yeah I know that argument. I always counter with "Is your church putting up a Christmas tree this year?"
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:33 am

Barrataria wrote:
Did they say why? I mean, why now?

Th exact quote by CCF was:

"They ruint the game! RUINT D&D 4evar! We're so pissed."
Source

Orpheus · Post by **Orpheus** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:54 am

I imagine that CCF declined the donation as it might prove to be bad P.R. if'n any people decided not to donate to CCF if'n they caught wind of their acceptance of such a "tainted" donation. Sometimes it's just better not to deal with a headache over something so trivial. Other than that, why do gamers still get their panties in a wad over stuff like this? I agree that the perception of D&D is an evil, occult activity is stupid, but sometimes RPG'ers act as if someone burned a friggin' cross on their lawn. Others almost seem as if they're LOOKING to be offended. Just ignore 'em. There aren't nearly as many people still around who share the "D&D-is-Evil" view. Think of them as quaint, nostalgic time capsules.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:03 am

I agree with Orpheus 100%

The world is filled with enough real injustices that something like this doesn't register on my radar.

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:21 am

Orpheus wrote:
I imagine that CCF declined the donation as it might prove to be bad P.R. if'n any people decided not to donate to CCF if'n they caught wind of their acceptance of such a "tainted" donation. Sometimes it's just better not to deal with a headache over something so trivial. Other than that, why do gamers still get their panties in a wad over stuff like this? I agree that the perception of D&D is an evil, occult activity is stupid, but sometimes RPG'ers act as if someone burned a friggin' cross on their lawn. Others almost seem as if they're LOOKING to be offended. Just ignore 'em. There aren't nearly as many people still around who share the "D&D-is-Evil" view. Think of them as quaint, nostalgic time capsules.

Because it's an insult. Should we turn the other cheek, let it roll off our backs? I guess so - there's nothing we can do anyway. We may as well take it. It's acceptable to call us RPG'ers silly occult worshipping malcontents.

Eh, I'm not trying to attack you or anything, Orpheus, it's just after all these years this petty, "Ew, I don't want anything to do with that Dungeons & Dragons crowd," bullcrap should be over and done with. It just chaps my hide that this still exists. And I know it isn't going to go away.

So does it offend me? Yes it does. Do I look to be offended? No, I don't. Do people of color or of Arabic decent look to be offended because of who they are? I don't think so. I'm a gamer...that's who I am. And it ticks me off, a little, to be dicriminated against. And this CCF crap smacks of discrimination. Am I going to go postal, or spearhead an uprising? No, but I can still be ticked off a little.

Egg of Coot · Post by **Egg of Coot** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:21 am

Lord Dynel wrote:
Should we turn the other cheek, let it roll off our backs? I guess so - there's nothing we can do anyway. We may as well take it. It's acceptable to call us RPG'ers silly occult worshipping malcontents.

As I've said elsewhere, RPGs have nothing to do with my worshiping the Devil . . .

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Dranoel · Post by **Dranoel** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:48 am

Egg of Coot wrote:
As I've said elsewhere, RPGs have nothing to do with my worshiping the Devil . . .

The Egg

Maybe, the Devil worships RPGs?

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:24 am

I have never donated to CCF. I would say why but its highly inflammatory.

Glad I didn't "taint" them with D&D money.
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Joe · Post by **Joe** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:20 am

Well I have yet to hear from them as to why but many of you have jumped on it must be ignorance, closed minded or bigotry bandwagon.

It could be they have specific things and good reasons to take exception with wotc.

The fantasy of good vs evil, and archetypes of light battling powers of darkness ain't so bad.

But as far as 4E...what's the deal with Warlocks I think they are called? I hear they are a character class that specializes in summoning demons.

What exactly is good about teaching kids this sort of crap?

How do you have a heroic character that summons demons?

Does the summoning of demons teach kids good things about fantasy?

Does he make these demons do good deeds?

YEAH RIIIIIGHT!
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:16 am

Egg of Coot wrote:
As I've said elsewhere, RPGs have nothing to do with my worshiping the Devil . . .

If everyone were so enlightened, my friend.

Joe wrote:
But as far as 4E...what's the deal with Warlocks I think they are called? I hear they are a character class that specializes in summoning demons.
What exactly is good about teaching kids this sort of crap?

What exactly is 4e teaching kids? I'm not trying to bust your chops, Joe, but that's exactly the attitude the steams me. I want to grab those people by the shoulders and shake them and tell them, "It's only a game, people!" If anyone thinks that RPGs teaches anyone one anything about the occult, devil-worshipping, spell casting, or demon-summoning, then they seriously need their head examined. Seriously. I guess if that were to happen, there would be one less scapegoat they could use to blame today's problems on, and we can't let that happen.
It's like the whole whole gun debate. "Guns kill people!" No, they don't - idiotic people with guns kill people. There's nothing wrong with RPGs. Nothing. It's when they get into the hands of emotionally unstable people then sure, we have to worry. But it's not just RPGs that are a catalyst in the hands of said people, it's most things.

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:31 pm

I will say there are things in RPG's that do make me uncomfortable. Some games really do go that extra mile for shock value and seem to want to spite those detractors that claim the game is evil. However I am mature enough to avoid those things.

But staying in the D&D family (Defined as D&D or games built from the D&D systems), I can say that there are things I have changed to fit my beliefs. Demons and Devils become creatures of an ancient world that were banished in an age long past. Religion is a vague background thing with no real detail and magic has been defined as merely a pseudo-psionic manipulation of natural energies.

Am I saying all should do this? No, not at all, for it is a personal choice how detailed these things get. I do like James Ward's article in Crusader 12 where he talks about the 'Angry Mother'. It is worth a read. And I think should be a standard for developers and writers to pursue.

Again I cannot say how much this is just my opinion and not one I would press on anyone.
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tylermo · Post by **tylermo** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:36 pm

Orpheus, I'm not really p.o.'d at these folks, or any of the old D&D bashers. I just like to occasionally comment on the idiocy of their arguments. You're right, it's largely a time capsule line of thought. Over the years, most of the anti-D&D'er's moved on to other things(as they always do) Over the years they had(just to name a few)KISS which stood for Knights in Satan's Service, D&D, backwards Satanic messages in music, suicide-inducing Ozzy and Judas Priest songs, He-man, the Smurfs. Many of these 70's and 80's icons were later replaced with attacks on Magic the Gathering, Pokemon, and Harry Potter. Harry Potter was probably the last significant D&D-like attack on the pop culture, and even that number all but died down to a dull roar a few years ago. But rest assured, that thimble full of people will find something else to bash. I don't hate them, it's just fun to watch them attack(usually without listening to, reading, or watching the movies, tv shows, music, and games in question). No hardcore bashing here. I just take pride at having more wisdom (in the 80's) when I was a middle-high school aged kid than most of the people who believed suicides, and satanic occult recruitment would be the order of the day because of the afore-mentioned. Turns out 25+ years later...they were wrong. I've never argued whether or not one goes to Heaven or Hell for these things. I'm not Pat Robertson, so I don't have all the answers(like he does). I have made it a point to remind people that alcohol, drugs, and sex are more likely to be a problem(if at all) for young people. And, I'd say that's all but common sense fact.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:51 pm

Joe wrote:
Well I have yet to hear from them as to why but many of you have jumped on it must be ignorance, closed minded or bigotry bandwagon.

It could be they have specific things and good reasons to take exception with wotc.:

No, its not that. The "why" is very simple. That particular charitable organization did not want its name associated with D&D, because the game has 'evil' overtones. The CCF made no bones about it when they told Peter Atkinson why.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:49 pm

The CCF probably doesn't want anything to do with the situation because of the presence of "demons" and "devils" in D&D products. Take this persepctive, I know a guy who will not see any Roman Polanski movies because of accusations relating to the treatment of children.

Think about it that way.

-O
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:46 pm

Fat Dragon Games wrote:
You can stop playing innocent BD. It has come to my attention that YOU were the mastermind behind the 'Great Duct Tape Robbery of '08' (that's right, Davis and Steve sold your ass out!) The wrath of the Obese Draconis shall fall upon you next Gen Con.

DUED!!! IT WAS DAVIS!!! He was just too drunk to remember. That bast needs to recanize.

Orpheus · Post by **Orpheus** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:30 pm

tylermo wrote:
Orpheus, I'm not really p.o.'d at these folks, or any of the old D&D bashers. I just like to occasionally comment on the idiocy of their arguments. You're right, it's largely a time capsule line of thought. Over the years, most of the anti-D&D'er's moved on to other things(as they always do) Over the years they had(just to name a few)KISS which stood for Knights in Satan's Service, D&D, backwards Satanic messages in music, suicide-inducing Ozzy and Judas Priest songs, He-man, the Smurfs. Many of these 70's and 80's icons were later replaced with attacks on Magic the Gathering, Pokemon, and Harry Potter. Harry Potter was probably the last significant D&D-like attack on the pop culture, and even that number all but died down to a dull roar a few years ago. But rest assured, that thimble full of people will find something else to bash. I don't hate them, it's just fun to watch them attack(usually without listening to, reading, or watching the movies, tv shows, music, and games in question). No hardcore bashing here. I just take pride at having more wisdom (in the 80's) when I was a middle-high school aged kid than most of the people who believed suicides, and satanic occult recruitment would be the order of the day because of the afore-mentioned. Turns out 25+ years later...they were wrong. I've never argued whether or not one goes to Heaven or Hell for these things. I'm not Pat Robertson, so I don't have all the answers(like he does). I have made it a point to remind people that alcohol, drugs, and sex are more likely to be a problem(if at all) for young people. And, I'd say that's all but common sense fact.

We can be miffed, sure. Nobody here went into a hardcore this-is-why-I-can't-stand-christians rant or anything., which is a good thing. Of course, Lord Dynel, for those of us who consider ourselves to be christians then "turning the other cheek" is pretty much part of the deal. If they want to come take my rulebooks out of my hands then they're violating my rights and I'll probably pound some sucka's ass! CCF, in the end, does some very good work and I have no problem giving them money. I don't think that some child should starve because I don't like CCF's opinion of D&D, or, is probably the case here, the feared backlash from some of their contributors over the taking of "demon" money. Personally, I would be more concerned about the Vampire players. Let's face it, those guys are the REAL nutjobs in the RPG world.
Omote, you do realize that Roman Polanski is a fugitive from justice who raped a 13-year-old girl, right?

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:36 pm

Omote wrote:
I know a guy who will not see any Roman Polanski movies because of accusations relating to the treatment of children.

Thats discrimination!

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:39 pm

Orpheus wrote:
If they want to come take my rulebooks out of my hands then they're violating my rights and I'll probably pound some sucka's ass!

Exactly.

Show me how the CCF is harming the RPG'ers. And if I ran around being offended by all the folks who thought disparaging thoughts about me I'd be one miserable SOB.

People can think shitty thoughts about me and my hobbies all day long. Who cares.

Fat Dragon Games · Post by **Fat Dragon Games** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:09 am

Breakdaddy wrote:
DUED!!! IT WAS DAVIS!!! He was just too drunk to remember. That bast needs to recanize.

Your denials mean nothing, vengeance is coming BD.
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Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:59 am

I have zero tolerance for religious zealots.

I don't care what religious zealots think.

This CCF group are religious zealots.

I have zero tolerance for this CCF group.

It's a damn good thing I'm an atheist.
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Hrolfgar · Post by **Hrolfgar** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:37 am

Uppity Major charities make Hrolfgar mad, Hrolfgar smash things.
Oh sorry about that bout of primal rage, but really it seems kinda silly to turn down money obtained legally . At least the money went to an appreciative charity.

I always liked the old AD&D 1e covers , but those demons on the PHB and DMG may not been the best idea.

I will be a tolerant unwashed heathen from now on.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:32 am

Dude! it's 2008. We heathens wash now.

Fat Dragon Games · Post by **Fat Dragon Games** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:22 pm

DangerDwarf wrote:
We heathens wash now.

Speak for yourself DD.
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:18 pm

Fat Dragon Games wrote:
Your denials mean nothing, vengeance is coming BD.

BRING IT ON, HEAD!!! I am going to float like a helium balloon and sting like a waterfowl of some sort (a goose, perhaps)!!!!1111

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:24 pm

AHAHAHAHHHAAA!

g00ses r teh looz.

Fat Dragon Games · Post by **Fat Dragon Games** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:17 pm

Breakdaddy wrote:
I am going to float like a helium balloon and sting like a waterfowl of some sort (a goose, perhaps)!!!!1111

Are you threatening to GOOSE me?!? What kind of weird Arkansas crap is that???????
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