Twilight 2013

jaybird216 · Post by **jaybird216** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:41 pm

Definitely. I'd say that T:2000 was my favorite game, back in the day. Naturally I started with D&D and evolved to AD&D, but eventually we branched out from there and discovered Twilight. I'd say we played it more than anything else. I was so pumped to hear that the franchise had been picked up again, and by someone with as much love for the game as we have. Keith's a good Joe, and all of the 93gs guys seems very committed to getting it right.
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:57 pm

Good to know about Keith and the gang. I had no idea a Twilight redux was even occurring until I just happened upon someone who mentioned the presale. Needless to say, I was very stoked.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:07 pm

When is the actual release date for this? IE how much time do I likely have to afford the pre-order? Afford=save up the cash.
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:16 pm

Hey Tree, according to a post on their site by the author dated nov 3, the book was "at the printers and weeks out". Thats the firmest I've seen anything on the matter.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:21 pm

Rules bloat, when it introduces contradictory systems, all designed to emulate the same thing, leads to complexity -- Twilight Whatever and GURPS both do this. They do it differently, because the actual mechanics are different... but they are equally complex, when all rules are considered. Hell, so is AD&D1e, if one attempts a "truly BtB game" (if you believe the people at Dragonsfoot, anyway.) That does not make it a bad thing -- it just makes it complex. Powers and Perils likely kicks it ass, too, regarding overall complexity. But, if you're talking strictly about games that do simulate the real world... there are few that come close (none actually succeed,) and T2KX is one.
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jaybird216 · Post by **jaybird216** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:48 pm

Treebore wrote:
When is the actual release date for this? IE how much time do I likely have to afford the pre-order? Afford=save up the cash.

They also said that the pre-orders are being limited to 500.

I can't remember the last time I dropped $55 on rules (I missed the 3.x phenomenon), but I couldn't miss this one. Tree knows my love of the game I'll have to see the feasibility for some SIEGE conversion once I get the actual book.

Serl, you're right about complexity. v1 was super crunchy and v2 was equally so, in different areas. This one is built with 3 layers of complexity (as breakdaddy stated previously), to help the GM decide what proper amount of rules works best for his players/campaign. I won't have a greater grasp of the entire concept until I read the book cover-to-cover, so please take my endorsement with a grain of salt. It's mostly from what I've read over at the 93gs boards.
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jaybird216 · Post by **jaybird216** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:56 pm

I just popped over there. This is what Keith said about ETA in a post dated Thursday, Nov 14:

smokewolf wrote:

Just FYI, PDFs should be available for download this week, hard copies are at printer and weeks out.

Thud105 wrote: By "weeks out" has the printer given any sort of WAG as to whether we're looking at pre- or post-Christmas?

smokewolf wrote: 4-6 weeks is my estimated printing time...but there are other factors involved such as shipping and therefor customs which affect delivery dates. Doing what I can though to make sure we have them by X-Mas.
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:58 pm

Yea Jaybird, it seems high but look at all you get. Getting the first adventure on top of the rest is a nice bonus as well. Some companies (looks squarely at White Wolf) charge almost as much for the PDF as their hardbacks and I noted their willingness to package the PDF as a definite bonus. Hopefully the little cheatsheets that come with the presell are helpful I dont know one way or the other on that yet.

Post by **Breakdaddy** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:00 pm

Jaybird, thanks for the shipping update. I hope theyre shipped before Christmas.

jaybird216 · Post by **jaybird216** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:21 pm

Breakdaddy wrote:
Yea Jaybird, it seems high but look at all you get. Getting the first adventure on top of the rest is a nice bonus as well. Some companies (looks squarely at White Wolf) charge almost as much for the PDF as their hardbacks and I noted their willingness to package the PDF as a definite bonus. Hopefully the little cheatsheets that come with the presell are helpful I dont know one way or the other on that yet.

I agree. Totally worth it. Especially considering the exclusive freebies, getting the PDF *and* hardcover rules, and free shipping inside the USA. It just gave me an initial pinch of sticker shock, but I got over it once the overall value of the deal soaked through my frugal defenses.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:50 pm

Considering:

This SPECIAL EDITION PRE-ORDER set contains:

1) Core Rules - Hardback Book (will ship once printed)

2) Core Rules - PDF (download available on day of order)

3) Character Generation Booklet (to make generating characters easier with the party)

4) Equipment Booklet (to make drooling over the equipment easier)

5) Character Worksheet Pad (33 character sheets and worksheets in a tear off pad)

6) Laminated quick rules sheet (x5)

In addition I'm throwing in the following:

The finished story from Sith - Solitude.

I'll also be throwing in the first adventure/city supplement (which I have but is now in editing) as soon as it's available.

Access to the downloads section of the website for NPCs, Organizations, rumors, etc. (as soon as I can get them posted).

Oh yeah, free shipping to anywhere in North America and APO/FPO addresses (Europe, I'm still working on the details for this one).

With all this stuff thrown in, and depending on how you want to look at it, you could think your paying just $10 to $20.00 for the print book.

The 33 character sheets are likely a $10 value. The laminated sheets are probably worth $2 each. The PDF, if you really like having it, is worth at least $20 in my book, so they are defintely doing their best to give value for your money.

I'll definitely order as soon as I think I can afford to spend $55 on yet another RPG.
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:20 pm

I couldnt agree more, Treebore. It's really a good deal when you consider the complete package. I hope everyone gets a chance to take advantage of it before it's gone. Again, I can't wait to tear into the hardback and will very likely buy another one as well once I get my hands on the first one.

jamesmishler · Post by **jamesmishler** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:32 pm

Heya BD, any further thoughts on T2013?
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Dranoel · Post by **Dranoel** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:38 pm

Old school fan of Twilight 2000- I am hoping this new version will hold true to the original.

//Off to Google T:2013

Post by **Breakdaddy** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:32 pm

jamesmishler wrote:
Heya BD, any further thoughts on T2013?

Well chief, I am loathe to give a whole hearted recommendation based on reading three chapters but the rules are solid and customizable so Im liking what Im seeing here. The three stages of rules make it quite useful for an array of groups but frankly even stage I rules are complex compared to games like C&C and even Savage Worlds. The background info is really cool and fairly believable and the equipment section is fairly complete (aside from the strange lack of newer model tanks, they seem to have made the most modern Russian tank a T72? Dunno why but maybe more mobile armor will be provided in a future supplement). The firearms are modeled in a believable way and dont break the verisimilitude of the game (Im an experienced shooter and nothing Ive seen so far has made me think the authors were completely lacking firearms knowledge).

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:09 pm

So what's the backstory on this like? I was pretty fond of the T:2K one and I hope 2013 does as good a job as the original. Also is Poland the default setting or do you get more choices?
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jaybird216 · Post by **jaybird216** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:29 pm

The default setting is a big overhaul from previous editions. It takes into account the war on terror and the global economic crunch, as well as a few major natural disasters, etc. Militarily, fewer nukes have been dropped (gotta love that Star Wars missle defense system), but the world is just as messed up, if not worse.

The rules aren't set in any specific region, so GM's are free to start the campaign wherever they like. The background does a good job describing the SITREP for the majority of the world. Also, character creation is general enough that you can make a soldier or civilian from almost any walk of life from anywhere in the world. They even have a "freedom fighter" track, which could cover any number of insurgents, rebels, or survivalists from across the globe.
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:02 pm

Jaybird sums it up nicely. My game will take place in the U.S. somewhere likely along the coast. I want a shanty town made up of ex navy (at least thats how the town started, at this point it's an amalgam of folks) guys with an old los angeles class nuclear sub beached alongside the town but with an active nuclear power plant that is providing power to the town. Florida maybe? The everglades would be a fantastic setting, so somewhere within spitting distance of the swamps.

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:30 pm

I think if I did one it would be set in the Ozarks. You'd have military, the military trained as well as a host of survivalists and others that have formed into rag tag units. Add in one military engineering school in the area and I call that fun.

Sadly, no one here would play it.
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:37 pm

Julian Grimm wrote:
I think if I did one it would be set in the Ozarks. You'd have military, the military trained as well as a host of survivalists and others that have formed into rag tag units. Add in one military engineering school in the area and I call that fun.

Sadly, no one here would play it.

Nobody is missouri has any taste???

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:49 pm

We played it in High School. But that is where it ended. When that group broke up it was about the end of T:2k. Shadowrun was the next runner up behind D&D with the new groups.

And my group now is my wife and kids and they don't like things like T:2k.
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:53 pm

ORLY? MAKE them like it! You gotta have faith, playa!

jaybird216 · Post by **jaybird216** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:57 pm

What if you told them that most of the southern states seceded? Not sure about MO, but everything from Texas to Georgia jumped ship and became a loosely-confederated group of sovereign states.

Meanwhile the Canuck and Yank civillians are scrapping up north, the Russkies have taken Alaska and part of BC, the US Army occupies central and northern Mexico while sleeper cells of Chinese special forces units run amock up and down the west coast. Not to mention the wii-wii match between Milgov and Civgov.

there's plenty of fun to be had in this grand old country of ours!
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:01 pm

Yep, give em a half broken down Stryker (or a pinto) thats been peppered with an array of ordnance (adds character) and send em on their merry. They can roam the countryside scavenging, trading, and staying the hell out of the remaining military's way. Course, keeping a stryker fed with gas would be a problem, but that's what looting and pillaging's for!

jamesmishler · Post by **jamesmishler** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:43 am

Hey BD,

Have you had any chance to get in a game yet? Or maybe make a character or three?

Anyone else?
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Barrataria · Post by **Barrataria** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:42 pm

I was interested in Dark Conspiracy for a while and picked up the old T2K rules to use to generate more detailed military characters. For a while after September 11 I was making a historical timeline to update the ones in T2K and DC.

Is the system the same at all, or does it totally abandon the GDW/Traveller type chargen and resolution?
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:00 pm

jamesmishler wrote:
Hey BD,

Have you had any chance to get in a game yet? Or maybe make a character or three?

Anyone else?

Nah Mish, Im a hardcopy sort of fella. I skimmed a lot but Im waiting on my dead tree to come in before I really dig in.

Post by **Breakdaddy** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:01 pm

Barrataria wrote:
I was interested in Dark Conspiracy for a while and picked up the old T2K rules to use to generate more detailed military characters. For a while after September 11 I was making a historical timeline to update the ones in T2K and DC.

Is the system the same at all, or does it totally abandon the GDW/Traveller type chargen and resolution?

It is similar but not the same. There arent enough differences from what I recall to be off putting to those that love the old way. This is from memory however, as I've not cracked open my Twilight 2k box in years.

jaybird216 · Post by **jaybird216** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:26 pm

Barrataria wrote:
Is the system the same at all, or does it totally abandon the GDW/Traveller type chargen and resolution?

The character generation is similar, only with 2-year terms instead of 4-year ones, and there's no roll for the outbreak of war. However, the game mechanics themselves are a completely different proprietary system.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:16 am

How do you get the PDF after you placed your order? I assumed an automatic e-mail coupon, but its been hours and I haven't gotten it yet.
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