Troll Lord Games

Ok, so I am reading The Stand by Stephen King (the 1138 pg, uncut version) for my English class. I have never read a slower moving novel in my life, the style is a best clunky. My question is to those who have braved through this beast: Does it ever pick up the pace? Or does just contine you dredge on like paint drying? There is a good story amongst all the extra crap, I jst hope I get to it.
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CK the CK
"My goddess touched me at an early age."

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That's why I only read short stories like Lovecraft, Doyle, Vance etc.

Good luck with that by the way!
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It picks up in spots, and goes back to being boring in others. It also has a rather, expected Kingly, ending... which is to say: rushed and "ho-hum."

Stephen King's novels are almost universally overwritten. I'd love to say that The Stand improves as you progress....but it doesn't. My rule of thumb for King's works is to rent the film-adaptation and save yourself several weeks' time.

I'm not bitter....I just think King is waaaaaay overhyped. Kinda like Robert Jordan.
Ink
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The Trashcan man is the best part of that book, now and forever, world without end, hallelujah, amen!

I quit reading King about 15 years ago. I do remember liking "The Stand" though.

I've quit reading Robert Jordan too.

My girlfriend....despite the fact that she admits she's bored to tears....stubbornly refuses to quit reading The Wheel of Time. It must be the whole redhead thing...damn, they're stubborn!

Ink
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Yikes, nothing like a slow mover even when you like the author (not sure if you do Kyle). I've only read the Gunslinger and one other short story and liked it, but I guess not enough to read the sequels.
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Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

I really enjoyed reading The Eyes of the Dragon when i was in 7th grade.

From my understanding it's Kings only true fantasy book to date.
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"IT" was very good except for the end which was just bizzar. I read a few of the Dark Tower books, but the release schedule was spread too far out so I just forgot to keep looking for the next book.

As for Jordan and the Wheel of Time, I read the first 6, started the 7th one week before my eldest son was born and gave it up -- until last year. I started listening to them on my commute to work. Great readers, unfortunatley they didn't (or haven't) read the middle books, so I've had to read numbers 9 and 10. It's torture, but I keep going back because I want to know what happens in the end. Or is that the begining?

Stephen King's books have great concepts. Great stories, really. He just can't seem to shut up and ends up putting a 500-page story in a 3000-page book.
Ink
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King's stuff makes better movies than readable books, IMO.

I have a great amount of respect for Stephen King, and I did quite enjoy The Stand when I read it in the late 80's. But that was long before they came out with an "uncut" version.

King has a style that some would say is overwriting. He is quite fond of character immersion, bringing you into the head of a character -- that character's feelings, their trials and tribulations, and everything else, much of which can often have little to do with the story at hand, but helps place you, the reader in the shoes of said character. When he runs a large cast of characters, such as in The Stand, or IT, or Needful Things, you become so familar with each these characters that you feel you know them. They are your friends, neighbors or relatives, with traits familiar to us all.

Now, I do agree that this can sometimes become boring, but I have a fondness for his style and appreciate the fact that he does it his own way. I feel that King is a master and I respect him immensely, particularly the Dark Tower series, which I would put on a pedastal with series such as Asimov's Foundation & Robots, Herbert's Dune, and Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.

These are, of course my opinions. YMMV.

Cheers!

--Ghul

Ghul wrote:
I have a great amount of respect for Stephen King, and I did quite enjoy The Stand when I read it in the late 80's. But that was long before they came out with an "uncut" version.

King has a style that some would say is overwriting. He is quite fond of character immersion, bringing you into the head of a character -- that character's feelings, their trials and tribulations, and everything else, much of which can often have little to do with the story at hand, but helps place you, the reader in the shoes of said character. When he runs a large cast of characters, such as in The Stand, or IT, or Needful Things, you become so familar with each these characters that you feel you know them. They are your friends, neighbors or relatives, with traits familiar to us all.

Now, I do agree that this can sometimes become boring, but I have a fondness for his style and appreciate the fact that he does it his own way. I feel that King is a master and I respect him immensely, particularly the Dark Tower series, which I would put on a pedastal with series such as Asimov's Foundation & Robots, Herbert's Dune, and Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.

These are, of course my opinions. YMMV.

Cheers!

--Ghul

Ghul, I couldn't agree more. Kyle, do you dislike King in general or just the story?

Well I can't say I dislike the man. But he needs an editor. For example early on in the story in exposition one character relates that another kept saying "Never saw the taillights flash once." Ok fine, a little visual aid to help the scene, as an aspiring writer it is clever to use exposition from one character to paint a nice picture. But 3 paragraphs later the character actually says the line "Never saw the taillights flash once." AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. This is repetitive, unnecessary writing. Does King assume the reader is stupid and has to repeat things to make sure we remembered? I'm not sure, but the best quote I have ever heard in a writing workshop was; "An author is only as good as his editor." King needs an editor. There is a great story mixed into 500 pages of extraneous crap.
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CK the CK
"My goddess touched me at an early age."

-Grikis Valmorgen, Paladin

The beginnings of my homebrew campaign world and info for my play by chat game:
http://kbdekker.googlepages.com/home

Combat_Kyle wrote:
There is a great story mixed into 500 pages of extraneous crap.

Agreed. I guess it just boils down to personal preference.

Ink
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When you read King, remember he's the master of dialogue, not action, plot or anything else. He imparts the cultural aspect of life as it is in Maine and does it very well in virtually every book he writes...so the characters will often sound "hick" or repeat themselves, as people often do in real life. As for the pace and the plot...I'm not even sure he plans out his books in advance. I think he just starts writing and keeps on going till he hits the end, whereas many authors actually write their books backwards from the last chapter to the first. The result: his plots are all over the place and the pacing is usually off. The majority of his fans are drawn mostly to the characters he creates. Obviously, if that's not your thing, you're better off reading a different author.

Now Dean Koontz, him I also like and he and King write similar stories, often with the same type of monsters and around the same release dates. (I'm pretty sure they keep in contact with each other since they've both mentioned the other on more than one occassion.) Koontz is the master of internal dialogue...train of thought prose with hardly anything said out loud. Makes for interesting reading and his action moves along a little faster since the characters are doing things while they're thinking. Same problem with plot issues and abrupt endings though...seems both authors just crank out the volume as fast as they can.

Brian Miller
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I much prefer Koontz.

The only characters a writer ever got me into was David Eddings. The Mallorean was predictable as hell but I still read it because I love the characters. Especially Silk.

I starting to read the Stand a long time ago, the only thing I remember is being bored, and never finishing it.
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I would love to say that I enjoy King's dialogue. But in The Stand, he bounces so much between inner monologue, dialogue, 3rd and 1st person, it is a clusterf#$%. The dialogue that is there is very cliche and sadly his southernerners are so sterotyped it is laughibly unbelieveable. Maybe this uncut version of The Stand is a poor meter of King's ability. Sadly I don't have a choice about reading him, since it is for a class, and there will be a test I have no choice but to continue. At least when I am done with the book I have a 2 week supply of toliet paper on hand.
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CK the CK
"My goddess touched me at an early age."

-Grikis Valmorgen, Paladin

The beginnings of my homebrew campaign world and info for my play by chat game:
http://kbdekker.googlepages.com/home

Ghul wrote:
Now, I do agree that this can sometimes become boring, but I have a fondness for his style and appreciate the fact that he does it his own way. I feel that King is a master and I respect him immensely, particularly the Dark Tower series, which I would put on a pedastal with series such as Asimov's Foundation & Robots, Herbert's Dune, and Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.

These are, of course my opinions. YMMV.

Cheers!

--Ghul

Whoa, this is high praise indeed, Ghul. I mean you've mentioned 2 of the best Sci-Fi series ever, and thee best fantasy series ever.

Now I like the first book in the Dark Tower series, but I can't even think that it's as good as the first book of all these other series.
Heh, Dune is probably the all time greatest Sci-Fi book which won the first Nebula award.

Do the Dark Tower books get better then?
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Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

I stopped reading Jordan after 4 or 5 or 6 volumes (it was a while ago). Not only do I dislike starting a long series in the middle (before it's finished), but I found myself loathing many of the characters. This'll sound picky, but I felt that he couldn't write believable female characters (esp. Nynaeve[sp?] always pulling on her braid and kvetching about 'boys'/'men'. Get a grip! In the kind of premodern village life he sets up in those series there's little room for postmodern gender anxieties or, as I really saw it, for moronic immaturity). But I don't have strong opinions about it!
Never read King save for a few short stories. There's always something else on the table that seems more interesting.

Geleg

Rhuvein wrote:
Do the Dark Tower books get better then?

Rhuv--
The Gunslinger, what you have to realize, was written by a young author about 8 or ten years before the series continued. It is a very brief work that sets the tone for what is to come. You could probably say the same for Asimov's Foundation, but Dune, IMO, was a fully realized work and stands on its own without any of its sequels being necessary to read. That being said, God Emperor was always my favorite.

IMO, when you're talking about Stephen King's works, there is the Dark Tower series, and then there is everything else. Indeed, as the series develops, the Dark Tower touches upon many of King's other works, but this does not make them necessary to read. The Stand, BTW, is one such work, but again, not required reading.

Miller--

Having read King's On Writing book, yes, you are right on. He admits to plotting only one book his whole career. He lets the story unfold as he writes it. This can, I will agree, result in rushed endings at times, but I will take King over Koontz for my poison, although I have read several Koontz books over the years, one of my recent favorites being From the Corner of His Eye.

--Ghul

Robert Jordan is hyped?

In some defence of Mr King (even though I don't enjoy his work myself), he is probably told how many words to write by the publisher. It's the way a lot of publishing houses work these days.

"We want a five-volume story, 600-700 pages per volume". I wish I was kidding.
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I do like King, but his later works made after his accident just doesn't sing to me like it used to. Hell, I even think he's made a similar comment regarding his "heyday" work (ie. "It," "Christine," etc; his, what, early-late 80's/90's stuff) and the works that have come after not being up to the same level. Don't quote me on that one, though.

However, in short story format, his horror is, to me, simply wonderful.

Jordan needs to wrap it up. I mean, I thought it took me a long time to get to the point, but I ain't got nothing on that man!

Ann Rice is the one that gets my goat. The verbal tide you have to wade through in some of her works makes me look forward to getting a stomach virus. Plus, there really isn't much of a payoff once you've suffered through hearing about yet another tortured soul bumbling his way through vampirehood (and witch-hood too; don't get me started on her "witch" crap either). The thing that gets me is that "Interview with a Vampire" was, to me, quite fresh and unique. Hell, it created the whole "angsty vampire" genre in of itself. But the places that series has gone to since then...pffft.

Oh, and Laurel K. Hamilton sucks too.

I guess I will drop in my 2cp to this discussion.

I have met King a couple of times - I am from Maine originally and we used to visit the same beaches/lakes. I wrote my Senior Thesis on the Conflict between good and evil in the novels of Stephen King. The Stand was one of 3 books I used for source material/reference. Now this was done back in 1979-80 when the books were fresh.

I agree that his character development does tend to go to unusual depths which, while giving you great insight into the character, does tend to drag.

I enjoy the action sequences when they do come, but again, there is much in the way of character development that comes between these action scenes.

Just remember that many of these early novels were written more than 25 years ago. This was during a time, at least in my life, where there was very limited alternatives for entertainment. I only had 4 TV channels I could receive clearly. So for me to sit down with a Stephen King novel was a great opportunity to escape into his world. And this resulted in many nights of lost sleep - both due to the length, as well as the content.

Since that time, I have read most of King's writings; and, as with most authours he has had his ups and downs.

I agree with the other poster who commented that most of King's works which have been made into movies will give you the basic framework and action of the story, without all of the character development. So I guess it then becomes a matter of taste. Do you want the "nut" of the story, or do you want the fully-immersed version?

Good luck Kyle as you complete this assignment.
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Cernunos

Master of Animals

don't read King - I've never liked having a chapter each paragraph ...

I'm still ploughing through Robert Jordan, on book 10 right now... there has been a decided decrease in story progress in the last 4 books... there's nothing like reading in the first 4-5 books in 200 words about walking down a path to the next town. Now, you have to read 200 words about the way the foot comes down onto the broken pebble as Rand walks towards the next town... the amount of pages used to just describe what the women are wearing - it boggles the mind.

but I'm going to finish this series dammit!!! because I've invested so much time into it...
Cheers,

J.

I had the pleasure of meeting Robert Jordan back in 2001 or 2002, I think. He was a guest lecture at the Medical Library at MUSC when my wife still worked there. How long the Wheel of Time series is not up to him. He is doing what his bosses are telling him to do, including the "new material" for the old books that have been rereleased.

Which is why I quit reading them. He said start reading again at book 14. With his health maybe the publishers plans changed, I don't know. Anyways, he had a nice long talk with my wife about getting published and pitfalls to avoid once you start getting published (in the contracts), so I at least like and respect the man.

I remember enjoying The Shining and Christine. The other King novels that I read were okay, but never really grabbed me. I quit reading King novels around the time of The Dark Half, I guess. However, I think King's short stories are damn good. In general, I prefer his short stories over his novels.

Some of my favorite writers are Gene Wolfe (my favorite, at the moment), Tolkien, Walker Percy, and Mark Helprin. Other favorites include G.R.R. Martin, Burroughs, Leiber, Moorcock, Lovecraft, David Drake, Glen Cook, Frank Herbert, REH, Hilaire Belloc, G.K. Chesterton, and Graham Greene.