The Hobbit ~ coming to a theater near you... maybe.

dcs · Post by **dcs** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:33 am

DangerDwarf wrote:
Okay, it's been a few years since I was teaching myself old english, but that should be fairly close. My sentence structure is likely awful though.

I don't know if sentence structure matters quite so much in Old English since it is so highly inflected.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:09 pm

While I love the LOTR books, I will to admit that it is tough to get through them at times. It took me years to finally finish the books because when I was about 15 I tried to read them, but couldn't finish. I finally read all of the books when I was about 23. Now that I've read them, and "learned to read" Tolkein's material, I'm better for it. Tolkein is a word artist and is nearly unmatched in his skill. This takes some getting used to, but is so worth the effort.

........................................Omote

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jman5000 · Post by **jman5000** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:03 pm

I've read the books a couple of times... and saw the movies... liked the movies slightly more than the books because, damn, there was just sooo much walking in the books (the one thing that I didn't like about the books was that the 'big' scenes, it felt like too much was left to the imagination. I'd have really liked a more fuller account of the battle at helms deep for example)

I blame MTV for ruining me, not allowing me to have any patience and needing my fantasy that is both fantastic and hightly adventurous..

Cheers,

J.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:08 pm

dcs wrote:
I don't know if sentence structure matters quite so much in Old English since it is so highly inflected.

Word order is alot less important, but there were orders that were considered more the norm. Although in writing they deviated from the norms far more often for stylistic effect.

I remember reading about coordinating conjunctions or somesuch in OE as well but heck, I can barely understand that crap in modern english.

dcs · Post by **dcs** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:27 pm

Omote wrote:
While I love the LOTR books, I will to admit that it is tough to get through them at times. It took me years to finally finish the books because when I was about 15 I tried to read them, but couldn't finish. I finally read all of the books when I was about 23. Now that I've read them, and "learned to read" Tolkein's material, I'm better for it. Tolkein is a word artist and is nearly unmatched in his skill. This takes some getting used to, but is so worth the effort.

I wouldn't argue with that. I started to read LOTR in 4th or 5th grade after reading The Hobbit. But I didn't finish it until I was 11 or 12. And even then I didn't understand the stuff about the Elves, the Numenoreans, etc. In fact I probably skipped the entirety of Book IV.

I've probably read LOTR at least once per year for the last 20 years. Even if I liked the movies I don't think I could watch them over and over.
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Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:43 pm

The Lord of the Rings is a curate's egg for many, whether in print of in film. In both cases I liked this or that part, but not the whole thing.

PJ's additions to the story were obvious, and you could really see the join. personally, I found the Faramir subplot to be the most jarring, as well as his desperate attempts to make Boromir more than the fundamentally weak person that he was.

That and the flail. That flail was just silly.

PJ has always said that he didn't understand the Scouring of the Shire. I suppose he wouldn't. However, while LotR was being written, a lot of people came home from war to find their homes and all that they had fought for gone. Nothing but a blasted patch of earth where home, family and love once were, and a country they didn't recognise. A lot of people came home to that. If you don't get that, you don't get the Scouring's importance.

All that said, however, the overall impression was positive. And I would like to see him involved with a Hobbit film.
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:43 pm

Catweazle wrote:
PJ has always said that he didn't understand the Scouring of the Shire. I suppose he wouldn't. However, while LotR was being written, a lot of people came home from war to find their homes and all that they had fought for gone. Nothing but a blasted patch of earth where home, family and love once were, and a country they didn't recognise. A lot of people came home to that. If you don't get that, you don't get the Scouring's importance.

*wry smile* My folks sure understand it. Both growing up as children during WWII, my mom in London and my dad near Shefield.
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old school gamer · Post by **old school gamer** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:08 pm

Omote wrote:
While I love the movies a great deal, there was just enough changed from the novels to grate on my nerves. I fully understand that little bits and pieces of the novel need to be different in the movie. Dialogue must be different and certain scenes have to be changed to fit with pacing, actors, and technical aspects.

That being said, I completey and utterly dispise what Peter jackson did with Saruman and Wormtongue. That part kills me to death. Saruman dies so pathetically, so hollywood-like that I complete FF through that scene.

I can even live with not putting the Scourging of the Shire in the films, but what happened with Saruman is completely unforgivable.

Peter Jackson admits that he never persobnally liked the Scourging of the Shire at the end of ROTK. Who the F cares what PJ likes?!?! If he is going to spout that rhetoric about being as thruthful to the material as possible, then suck it up and do JRR justice by not killing Saruman in that way, and leaving IN the Fall of the Shire.

DAMMIT!!!
............................................. mote

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Just for the record, that was a deleted scene that you can only see in the special edition version. And yes, I wished they had added in the Scourging of the Shire.

old school gamer · Post by **old school gamer** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:27 pm

I don't think that the Hobbit would be really that hard an adaptation because compared to the LOTR it is a much simpler story. You only really had the thirteen dwarves, Gandalf and Bilbo and some minor supporting characters. You don't have a thousand and one minor characters and stuff to keep track of.

So I am not only optimistic about this being a good movie I think it will be a better movie than the LOTR because there are less adaptation problems.

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:48 pm

old school gamer wrote:
I don't think that the Hobbit would be really that hard an adaptation because compared to the LOTR it is a much simpler story. You only really had the thirteen dwarves, Gandalf and Bilbo and some minor supporting characters. You don't have a thousand and one minor characters and stuff to keep track of.

So I am not only optimistic about this being a good movie I think it will be a better movie than the LOTR because there are less adaptation problems.

Well said! It should be a slam dunk and has the potential to be a spectacular movie. Yayy, Thorin Oakenshield on the big screen! 8)
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Korgoth · Post by **Korgoth** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:46 am

Sorry to be a naysayer but I thought the movies were sheer butchery and I expect a Hobbit movie to be the same. They'll just ditch Tolkien's text and make "Saving Private Bilbo" instead.
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:06 am

Korgoth wrote:
Sorry to be a naysayer but I thought the movies were sheer butchery and I expect a Hobbit movie to be the same. They'll just ditch Tolkien's text and make "Saving Private Bilbo" instead.

Heh, you funny man, Korgoth.

Now get back to your outhouse and do what you do best!
[Hey when's the next episode? I'm suddenly wanting to see more! ]
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JRR · Post by **JRR** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:46 am

Korgoth wrote:
Sorry to be a naysayer but I thought the movies were sheer butchery and I expect a Hobbit movie to be the same. They'll just ditch Tolkien's text and make "Saving Private Bilbo" instead.

I concur.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:32 pm

While I'll take the Hobbit on the silver screen anyways I can take it, I just hope that because of the relatively simply nature of the book, that not much changing needs to be done (as described by others).

MGM STUDIOS have CONFIRMED that they have talked to Peter Jackson about doing the Hobbit film. No word from PJ's camp or New Line. At least the process is moving forward...

.........................................Omote

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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:27 pm

MGM's chief executive Harry Sloan talked about The Hobbit at the European Media Leaders Summit in London where he dropped a few interesting tid-bits.

At the summit, he went into more detail about the future plans for the films ... yes there will be two ... and discussed a director.

The first film would be a direct adaptation of The Hobbit, while the second film would draw from "footnotes and source material connecting 'The Hobbit' with 'Lord of the Rings,'" he explained.

Sloan also confirmed that MGM was in advanced talks with Peter Jackson to direct the two movies. An MGM spokesman however, emphasized that negotiations with Jackson are still in progress, and that production isn't likely until 2008 or even 2009.

No update was given on the negotiations with New Line. Regardless, great news for LoTR fans everywhere.

.............................................Omote

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qstor · Post by **qstor** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:09 pm

old school gamer wrote:
I don't think that the Hobbit would be really that hard an adaptation because compared to the LOTR it is a much simpler story. You only really had the thirteen dwarves, Gandalf and Bilbo and some minor supporting characters. You don't have a thousand and one minor characters and stuff to keep track of.

I agree. I think the cartoon version was pretty good. I look forward to the move by Peter Jackson.

Mike
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:19 pm

Jackson Dropped From The Hobbit

Lord of the Rings director Peter Jackson and his partner, Fran Walsh, won't be tackling a film version of J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit or a second proposed Rings prequel film after New Line told them the studio would be seeking another director, Jackson and Walsh told fans on the OneRing.net Web site. Jackson said that New Line producer Mark Ordesky told Jackson's manager, Ken Kamins, that the studio was moving ahead with the project without Jackson and Walsh because the pair declined to agree to do The Hobbit as a condition of settling a lawsuit against New Line to recoup income from the Rings films.

"We have always said that we do not want to discuss The Hobbit with New Line until the lawsuit over New Line's accounting practices is resolved," Jackson and Walsh wrote. But Michael Lynne, co-president of New Line Cinema, insisted that Jackson and Walsh commit to the project before the studio would settle the suit. When Jackson and Walsh declined, "Mark Ordesky called Ken and told him that New Line would no longer be requiring our services on The Hobbit and the LOTR 'prequel,'" Jackson and Walsh wrote. "This was a courtesy call to let us know that the studio was now actively looking to hire another filmmaker for both projects."

Jackson and Walsh added: "Given that New Line are committed to this course of action, we felt at the very least, we owed you, the fans, a straightforward account of events as they have unfolded for us. ... This outcome is not what we anticipated or wanted, but neither do we see any positive value in bitterness and rancor. We now have no choice but to let the idea of a film of The Hobbit go and move forward with other projects." Those include a film version of Alice Sebold's supernatural novel The Lovely Bones.
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:55 pm

Well that sounds disappointing and not because Jackson won't direct, but the fact that they seem to be at odds over $$$$. Aren't they all rich enough? I'm not saying that illegal accounting practises should be ignored but is that really the case here?
Oh well, hopefully someone will step and do a good film version!
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Inkpot · Post by **Inkpot** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:20 pm

As sad as I am to see it, I kind of had a feeling that things might go this way.

I agree with you, Rhu, that Jackson and New Line are both exceedingly wealthy....however, given the tremendous amount of work and sacrifice that Mr. Jackson and crew put into filming all three LOTR movies at the same time, I have to heartily agree with him for essentially telling New Line to go f**k themselves with their "offer". I'm pretty sure you or I would have done the same in more mundane circumstances.

At this point, I'm wondering if these films will ever see the screen. That may or may not be a good thing. =)

Ink
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Metathiax · Post by **Metathiax** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:42 pm

There goes loyalty for ya, not that I would expect the film industry to have any... I guess not enough money has been made with the franchise!? I sure hope The Hobbit will be a quality film like the LotR movies and not cheat the public by degenerating the product into a crap-fest meant to cash on its predecessors' success. At least, PJ's detractors will be happy to hear the news. We'll now see how "hardcore" the next director and his crew will be. As they say, be careful of what you wish for...
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:46 pm

Eh. Either way I wasn't going to go see it anyhow. And for the same reasons I'm going to avoid the new James Bond film. Ill wait till they hit HBO.
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:11 am

gideon_thorne wrote:
Eh. Either way I wasn't going to go see it anyhow. And for the same reasons I'm going to avoid the new James Bond film. Ill wait till they hit HBO.

Ah yes... the new Bond. I'm a big Bond fan, and was not eager about this movie AT ALL. I still ended up taking the plunge to see it (a bit of a tradition with me and seeing the films in theatre) and give it a chance.

That being said, the new Bond is pretty decent. My *extreme* reservations on the new actor playing Bond were a bit unfounded and I can see why he was chosen. As a stand alone movie or the start of a potential franchise, I could've seen it working.

Unfortunately, unless the intention is to start doing re-makes of the series, this will feel out of place and wrong (because there is NO WAY this can be a prequel to the existing movies). On that note, I'm kind of nervous what they could end up doing. A remake of Dr.No ?? :: shudder ::

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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:43 am

gideon_thorne wrote:
Eh. Either way I wasn't going to go see it anyhow. And for the same reasons I'm going to avoid the new James Bond film. Ill wait till they hit HBO.

Heh, I haven't been to a Bond opener since Diamonds are Forever!
But I did hear the new actor is pretty good, so like some of the others I'll wait for DVD.

However, if P Diddy ever becomes Bond, YOU will see me at the opener. Hmm, maybe that will be the one that Sean Connery plays the bad guy!
[Say, how about P Diddy as Bilbo? Nevermind, I'll shut up now.]
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Inkpot · Post by **Inkpot** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:46 pm

*points to the corner*

Go....just.....go.

Ink
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Zudrak · Post by **Zudrak** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:54 pm

Inkpot wrote:
*points to the corner*

Go....just.....go.

Ink

This thread was a fun read. Some thoughts:

1) I prefer the LoTR books to the movies. That said, I do like the movies, but there is a side of me that wishes they were done better (the noted additions, changes, and omissions are grating to me, too). Then the other side of me just enjoys the movies for movies well done. Can you feel my inner conflict?
2) I prefer The Silmariliion to The Hobbit and LoTR. However, it took me three tries to dig into and read it before I got it. I read the earlier works back in grade school (Hobbit) and high school (LoTR). It wasn't until I was about 25 that The Silmarillion (or my brain) clicked.

3) I would not mind seeing the director of The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe take over direction of The Hobbit. Plus, he used Weta Workshop for his special effects, etc. I liked their work in all of the TCoN and LoTR movies.
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:52 am

Inkpot wrote:
*points to the corner*

Go....just.....go.

Ink

But . . but - aww heck. Rhu walks to the corner.
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Orpheus · Post by **Orpheus** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:09 am

Zudrak wrote:
3) I would not mind seeing the director of The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe take over direction of The Hobbit. Plus, he used Weta Workshop for his special effects, etc. I liked their work in all of the TCoN and LoTR movies.

I believe that was Andrew Adamson who also directed the Shrek movies.

JRR · Post by **JRR** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:22 am

Omote wrote:
Jackson Dropped From The Hobbit

Lord of the Rings director Peter Jackson and his partner, Fran Walsh, won't be tackling a film version of J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit or a second proposed Rings prequel film after New Line told them the studio would be seeking another director, Jackson and Walsh told fans on the OneRing.net Web site. Jackson said that New Line producer Mark Ordesky told Jackson's manager, Ken Kamins, that the studio was moving ahead with the project without Jackson and Walsh because the pair declined to agree to do The Hobbit as a condition of settling a lawsuit against New Line to recoup income from the Rings films.

Ding dong, the witch is dead!
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:50 pm

Shaye: New Line Blacklists Jackson

In the latest comment in the controversy surrounding a proposed movie based on J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit, New Line head Robert Shaye told SCI FI Wire in no uncertain terms that the studio won't work with Lord of the Rings director Peter Jackson on that film or any other film. Ever. At least not as long as Shaye is in charge.

Shaye's comments marked the first time a New Line executive has commented publicly on the fracas since Jackson announced that he has pulled out of the project and also appears to harden New Line's position against Jackson.

"I do not want to make a movie with somebody who is suing me," ShayeNew Line's chief executive officersaid in an interview on Jan. 5 while promoting The Last Mimzy, a New Line family fantasy that marks his first time in a director's chair since 1990's Book of Love. "It will never happen during my watch."

Jackson had told TheOneRing.net in November that he and partner Fran Walsh were bowing out after New Line, which produced the Rings films and has production rights to The Hobbit, told them the studio was moving ahead with the project without them. Jackson has said he won't discuss The Hobbit until a lawsuit against New Line over Rings accounting practices was settled.

As far as Shaye is concerned, Jackson is no longer welcome. "There's a kind of arrogance," Shaye said. "Not that I don't think Peter is a good filmmaker and that he hasn't contributed significantly to filmography and made three very good movies. And I don't even expect him to say 'thank you' for having me make it happen and having New Line make it happen. But to think that I, as a functionary in [a] company that has been around for a long time, but is now owned by a very big conglomerate, would care one bit about trying to cheat the guy, ... he's either had very poor counsel or is completely misinformed and myopic to think that I care whether I give him [anything]."

Shaye, who was also an executive producer on the Rings films, added: "He got a quarter of a billion dollars paid to him so far, justifiably, according to contract, completely right, and this guy, who already has received a quarter of a billion dollars, turns around without wanting to have a discussion with us and sues us and refuses to discuss it unless we just give in to his plan. I don't want to work with that guy anymore. Why would I? So the answer is he will never make any movie with New Line Cinema again while I'm still working for the company."

Shaye said that many of the Rings trilogy actors "suddenly, because, I'm guessing, of Peter's complaint," have declined to participate in celebrating New Line's 40th anniversary. "I'm incredibly offended," he said. "I don't care about Peter Jackson anymore. He wants to have another $100 million or $50 million, whatever he's suing us for. He doesn't want to sit down and talk about it. He thinks that we owe him something after we've paid him over a quarter of a billion dollars. ... Cheers, Peter."

New Line's hardened position against Jackson isn't the end of the story, of course. MGM, which owns the distribution rights to The Hobbit, on Nov. 20 told Variety through a spokesman that "the matter of Peter Jackson directing the Hobbit films is far from closed."

In his own online statement, Jackson said that New Line executive Mark Ordesky, who shepherded the Rings trilogy, argued that New Line is dumping Jackson because the studio has a "limited time option" on the film rights, obtained from Saul Zaentz.
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Inkpot · Post by **Inkpot** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:07 pm

I guess my question is: What does the contract say? If it says that they are to pay a certain percentage, then they're obligated to do that. A contract is a contract. Jackson lived up to his end of the deal, now it's New Line's turn.

Ink
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