Druids...Faith Based or Nature Based?

[Joe]

I know this is a speculative topic but please bear with me. Gygax set the tone long ago when he said the druid of the D&D and the druid of history are not one and the same.

Druidism as a practice died out with the advent of Christianity and any one claiming today to be a druid is closer to modern new ager than they are to a traditional celtic druid. No offence to anyone but facts are facts. If some clandestine form of the tradition has somehow been secretly passed thru the ages then I stand corrected but I challenge you to follow the roots and present facts if you wish to debate the modern state of real life druidry.

Just like the practice of Wicca has been transformed with neo(New)-paganism so has any modern form of druidry. I would even risk in saying that witchcraft was better preserved thru midwives and such than druidry was.

Yet this thread is dedicated to the frpg druid and not the historical version. I ask that we use another thread if historical druidry becomes the topic.

That being said I wish to bring up the fantasy rpg druid.

What are your opinions about them?

Are they based in religion or in nature?

Doctrine or tradition?

Are they radical environmentalists?

Or would they find much of our modern environmental values irrelevant?

I must admit I do not share the traditional view of them as many others seem to have. I consider them more as a primitive shaman type rather than as a member of a religious order.

I am in a Greyhawk C&C campaign where the CK made a reference to them which implied druids as a form of priesthood of a nature deity.

My question would be don't they have clerics for that? This got me thinking about how others would perceive fantasy druids.

I have always seen them as preservers of an ancient way that was before, and transcended our concept of organized religion.

rather than this nature deity or that nature deity they rather get their magic and power from nature itself.

Yet when I have seen them played I think they are more often represented as a medieval Greenpeace activist more concerned with tree hugging than preserving a balance.

I understand with the topic being a form of imagination that there is no right or wrong but what do you think?

What are some of your thoughts concerning the fantasy druid?
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'Nosce te Ipsum' -Delphic Maxim

'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Joe wrote:
That being said I wish to bring up the fantasy rpg druid.

What are your opinions about them?

Are they based in religion or in nature?

Doctrine or tradition?

Are they radical environmentalists?

Or would they find much of our modern environmental values irrelevant?

I generally like them, as they can bring interesting aspects to the game that make them unique.

Yes. Here's one of those areas where it just depends. In terms of religion, I wouldn't necessarily have them worshiping any single nature deity, but instead recognizing all of the different nature deities in the region. That being said, they're not deriving their druidic power from said worship, but can tap into the world around them to acquire their abilities. A deity might grant him/her a spell if it pleases said deity, but spells don't necessarily need to come from a divine being. On the other hand, a cleric who worships an individual nature deity is a very different thing from a druid, in my eyes.

Again, in a nutshell, yes. Tradition is an important aspect in the background of any druid character, but doctrine can come to bear as well. While the druids may have little use for the laws of men, they will respect them if it means preservation of their own protectorate. It's entirely feasible for there to be a druidic order or society that had its own laws for its members.

Radical environmentalists...hrmmmm. This is an interesting question. Are they the RPG equivalent of ELF, torching used wagon dealerships and castle developments because they're impinging on nature in general? I don't see them that way. As I see them, they're trying to stay away from civilization, having little use for all that comes with it. They understand that there's a balance between civilized communitites and the wild. I don't think they go around with the mantra that humans are the problem with the world, although this might be a fun character hook for an evil druid. Something of a deranged obsession with making sure that everything stays pristine. Now on the other hand, I could really see a druid as something of a vigilante, especially when he/she spots somebody blatantly defiling the environment. Think of an environmentalist Dirty Harry. Bottom line, Al Gore would not be a druid in my eyes.

I don't think they would much care for civilized environmental mores. They're (the druids) the ones in tune with nature by definition. The folks in cities, while their hearts might be in the right place, really don't have a clue. If they do something that they believe to be in the best interests of the environment, but the druid knows better, he/she would be just as apt to go through during the night dismantling what the good-intentioned, albeit ignorant people had done. I could certainly see the druid in a "teacher"-type capacity, doing his best to educate the public on proper ways to co-exist with nature. Civilized beings, however, being generally more sophisticated and, well, civilized than such rustic rubes, may or may not take the advice seriously. This sort of attitude could be useful in the druid wanting to simply live as a recluse from society.

Okay...enough from me. Understand that I'm not trying to slam folks who have environmental interests here. I'm just saying how I see druids in FRPGs. The nice thing about the game is that you can set the characters up however you want to. It's all up to your own imagination.

[Joe]

Awesome post...thanks!
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'Nosce te Ipsum' -Delphic Maxim

'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell

[clavis123]

In Irish legend, Druids aren't really priests at all - they're wise men and women who practice magic through poetry and herbalism. The modern idea of religion as something different from magic doesn't make sense when one considers the ancient Celts. Druids could heal, lay taboos upon people, predict the future, or curse enemies, but they didn't guide people morally. The overall health of the kingdom and its people were the domain of the King, who was mystically linked with his land. There simply wasn't a sharp division between the divine and mundane worlds.

In a fantasy game, a good way to portray Druids is as natural wizards. Their spells should ultilize natural components, with an emphasis on poetic incantations and the heavy use of ingested herbs and potions. They wish to preserve wild places because that's where they harvest the plants they use in their magic. They are certainly not opposed to farms, however, and will lead fertility rites to increase crop yield. What they practice could be viewed as religion, as they deal with various divine and semi-divine powers. They don't exactly worship those powers, but rather bargain with them as equals. The Druids wouldn't claim exclusive access to nature divinities, but could claim to be on better terms with them than ordinary people.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

clavis123 wrote:
The overall health of the kingdom and its people were the domain of the King, who was mystically linked with his land. There simply wasn't a sharp division between the divine and mundane worlds.

In a fantasy game, a good way to portray Druids is as natural wizards. Their spells should ultilize natural components, with an emphasis on poetic incantations and the heavy use of ingested herbs and potions. They wish to preserve wild places because that's where they harvest the plants they use in their magic.

I really like this. Emphasizing the mystical ties of the king to his realm is an awesome idea. On the flip side, emphasizing the magical linkage of the druid to the land is equally good. The only thing I'd add to that is the use of symbolism and geometrics. Think Stonehenge here. The idea that an individual or group is so tied to the land that they can make what are basically antennas to channel the magical energy in the world is very intriguing.

Nice post. Very enjoyable.

[anglefish]

The lazy way I've seen druids played are as Nature Wizards with an tree hugging bent.

As written, they're more of a Shinto style thing. Spirits that are everywhere to be manipulated. The druid lacks an Exorcism rite to do that properly.

My current player is putting a spin on it to make them more like old timye naturalist of the Darwin vein.

[Joe]

All excellent examples!

PM me if your interested in a think tank for creative ideas please.

I'd be interested to see how many variations and different roleplay directions folks could take the very same class.

Perhaps there is less of a need for new character classes if we can find new ways to play the traditional ones.
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'Nosce te Ipsum' -Delphic Maxim

'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell

[anglefish]

Actually, I call it more of "close is good enough" philosophy. Why come up with new classes when you can creatively tweak the ones you got.

[serleran]

My current druid is a drug pusher. He believes that the best way to spread the appeal of nature is for those who don't know it, to experience it... firsthand in its glory. He takes narcotic berries, like opium, and casts goodberry on it which does not hinder the effects (according to the ruling of the Castle Keeper) and also smokes and sells marijuana... to ensure he has ample supply, he carries a pot with him and will sometimes cast create water or plant growth (now that he's powerful enough to do it.)
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Serl's Corner

[jaguar451]

I think True Nuetral, Taoist -- balance in all things.

[Lord Dynel]

I've always envisioned druids as worshippers of nature, but have view nature as having a religious aspect tied to it. Think "Mother Nature" being a deity. Is it far-fetched in thinking that magic can be pulled and manipulated from nature? I wouldn't think so. Maybe it's the "creationist" in me that believes that deities created the world, the multiverse, and all of it's inhabitants, but that's usually my take on it. The common, or unpious (or at the very least those who do not revere the nature deity) may look at a serene wooded clearing, complete with babbling brook and soft, mossy, patches to relax upon and think, "ah, the natural wonder," while a druid will know that this is a gift of Ehlonna, and whisper a silent prayer of thanks to her for such a place of respite.

I guess, to me, it depends on the viewpoints of the NPCs (and the PCs) of my games. There is definitely a godly framework to nature, but it's hidden within itself.
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Lord Dynel wrote:
I guess, to me, it depends on the viewpoints of the NPCs (and the PCs) of my games.

This sums it all up.

A person can put together the character however he/she wants to. If they want it to be a divine crusader, they can do it. If they want the character to be a reclusive hermit, they can do it. Bottom line, there's no hard and fast rule for how you have to create the character, whether it's a druid, a barbarian, a monk or any other class. The limits of your imagination are the only restraints that exist. If you want to try applying modern mores and idologies to the characters, have at it. If you want to try keeping the medieval feel, knock yourself out.

[Lord Dynel]

Sir Osis of Liver wrote:
This sums it all up.

A person can put together the character however he/she wants to. If they want it to be a divine crusader, they can do it. If they want the character to be a reclusive hermit, they can do it. Bottom line, there's no hard and fast rule for how you have to create the character, whether it's a druid, a barbarian, a monk or any other class. The limits of your imagination are the only restraints that exist. If you want to try applying modern mores and idologies to the characters, have at it. If you want to try keeping the medieval feel, knock yourself out.

Well said, good sir!
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

[Aladar]

I concur with Lord Dynel and Sir Osis of Liver, a player should determine (with CK approval) how they wish to portray their druid.

Myself, I kind of see druids as keepers of the old ways, much like Nicol Williamson's Merlin from the 1981 "Excalibur" movie. One who follows the spirits of nature rather than the "new" deities.
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[Lord Dynel]

Aladar wrote:
Myself, I kind of see druids as keepers of the old ways, much like Nicol Williamson's Merlin from the 1981 "Excalibur" movie. One who follows the spirits of nature rather than the "new" deities.

Exactly. And who knows? Maybe these "spirits of nature" are actually deities in and of themselves? Merlin never claims (neither directly or indirectly) them to be deities, but if the PC controlling Merlin wants them to be spirits or deities, I'd say the choice is his. As a CK/GM/DM his view of nature isn't going to upset my game in the slightest.
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

[Sundog]

One of the fun things about druids is the mayriad ways in which they can be played. For a world-builder with a penchant (or is it fetish?) for tinkering about, druids provide a lot of diversion.

For now, I have two kinds. Druids began as nature-worshippers with a strongly animistic bent. Some druids saw themselves as ambassadors, mediators between the spirits and the people. They were servants of their community. Others were far more interested in their pursuit of spiritual lore, often going their own way and providing only the support that they felt they needed to. It was a stylisitic thing, and individual druids could be placed at any point in a continuum from one extreme to the other.

However, the world rarely stands still, not even a fantasy one. As their people became more civilised, settling down and planting fields, they found their power base sliping away, and at the same timethey found their relationship with the nature spirits becoming strained.

The association of druids eventually schismed. Never really well-organised to begin with, the less sociable druids became more and more recluse, having less and less to do with people in general. Some became defensive, downright malignant. They still worship in the wild places, they still seek wisdom in the balance of nature, but they have no regard for people and their problems. They became known as the Grey Druids.

Others kept faith with their adoptive communities and have instead pursued a different path. They work to keep the demands on the land light, by helping rather than through condemnation. They help farmers to protect their fields from blight and pests, they protect crops from unseasonable frosts, they can even, the best of them, charm the weather to provide ideal growing conditions. They can even heal the sick and injured. They are the Gold druids. They are organised to a degree and answerable to their colleagues. Through the increase in production they have helped cities to grow, but without the sprawl into the wilderness that a more usual pre-industrial population would need. They have the ears of kings, who know that if the druids' blessings were revoked, their kingdoms would fall. As a result, it's not too hard to keep wild land wild in one place, and settled land fruitful in another. The druids could rule if they wished, with their hands so firmly on the engine of basic production, but that is not, and has never been, their concern. The pursuit of balance in their dealings with others has created a world that provides for its people without ravaging the wild places, and that's what they consider to be important.

Needless to say, there is sometimes great bitterness between the two.