Non magical artifacts... without the *slap*

[Omote]

Does anybody use, or have they used non-magical artifacts in their games?

In games I have run in the past, there have been a few items like this that the party either found or even quested for. This artifact would normally be valuable and sought after, but wouldn't necessarily impact game mechanics. Some players that I have played with are a bit disappointed when the item was revealed to have no "powers" per se. I had intended for said artifact to have "role-playing or temporal powers" (Did you see that warrior who strode into town? He now posseses the ancient sword of Gideon Thorne!), but sometimes players don't pick up on intangible benefits such as these.

I was wondering if you have have expereince with this, how do you handle it, and how to make players aware of the benefit to such an item without coming right out and slapping them in the face with the benefits?

Thanks.

~O
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[serleran]

Yes, I have done so. I find they usually understand when the item is presented in some fashion like a tome of irrefutable knowledge which reveals the answer to some question posed about the campaign, but also in games where there is "immersion" where the players actually want to build the setting as the game continues. For example, I once had a dagger that had been wielded by a king lost to memory, until it was discovered, and the NPCs were acting as if the wielder were some hero (despite being 1st level) and treating them with all kinds of respect... and then it got stolen and the evil bad guy used it to assume control of the throne and the party had to kick his butt and let the right king have it back. Stuff like that.
_________________
If it matters, leave a message at the beep.
Serl's Corner

[gideon_thorne]

Well, that depends on how you define the nature of a legendary item. There are many examples in history about artefacts or relics that don't have any mystical power, per say, but do have the ability to alter the perception of the masses. This through the dissemination of culturally destroying knowledge.

The most common story thread of such an item is a given 'lost' history that the powers that be would not like to be discovered. The peoples perception of a given kingdom, idea, ideology or whatever rests on the true history or facts not being discovered.

Even so called 'good' rulers might get obsessive about it not being known that their ancestor was a psychotic robber baron.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[Lord Dynel]

I've used something like this once - it was royal regalia. A coronation of a boy king, just coming of age, was thwarted by the regent's secret agents by stealing the corwn and sceptre of the ancient ruling kings. This was done to give the regent more time on the throne to commit some evil acts, and it was the PC's job to find the stujff so the coronation could happen.
_________________
LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

[CKDad]

I'm using something like this now in my game. The kids found a huge stone sword with some sort of runes carved into it. It's so big only the strongest character can lug it around. So far no one they've consulted has been able to identify it, though they have some leads about the nature of the runes which they're pursuing.

They're convinced it's some sort of uber-weapon, but it's really something else...
_________________
"I don't wanna be remembered as the guy who died because he underestimated the threat posed by a monkey."

[anglefish]

I think part of a players confusion is that the very words used to describe these cultural significant item, sans powers, have been co-opted to describe hefty magic items.

I think if you describe the sword as a cultural treasure, more players would get the hint that the sword's main benefit is the prestige that comes with it.

One of the cool things about C&C though is that it's easy to keep the game low powered so that mere masterwork weapons have a nice punch for a while. So a masterwork weapon with some prestige would be cool

[Omote]

Thanks for the input!

In a game that I am looking to run, at least in theory there are going to be a lot of items like this. I don't think that the game will be low-powered per se, but to keep certain aspects more down-to-earth, artifacts like this will be more prevalent.

I guess I need to, on the onset of the adventure, kind of set in the fact that the item/s in question are culturally significant. But, how do I convey that to players who are usually looking for standard C&C magic items? And how do I tell them that the significance to the item in not in it's ability to alter the mechanics of the game, but can be used for dynamic roleplaying purposes? Perhaps the best way to convey the role playing power of the item is to have NPCs react to the players possessing the item. But you see, I dont want to necessarily do that. I want the players to realize with out spoon-feeding them, the significance of the item and on their own roleplay those non-mechanical benfits.

~O
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[commanderFuron]

Does magically cutting out the wall of a legendary dungeon for your house count as a non magical artifact. If said dungeon had an awesome mural on it?

[Omote]

Artifact (according to dictionary.com):

1. any object made by human beings, esp. with a view to subsequent use.

2. a handmade object, as a tool, or the remains of one, as a shard of pottery, characteristic of an earlier time or cultural stage, esp. such an object found at an archaeological excavation.

Going by that definition yes.
anglefish really hit the nail on the head when he said that players have grown used to the term being the definition within FRP games. I guess it's the job of the CK to make known the difference between the two.

~O
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[Breakdaddy]

We need to recover an artefact of the Space Wolves chapter of the Adeptus Astartes. It's a set of tactical dreadnought armour. The point is, it's something that can't be manufactured anymore, so it's "non magical" but extremely rare. The artifacts within a FRPG could be similarly rare but non magical. Something like a repeating crossbow that fires razor sharp discs instead of bolts. It does 1d12 dmg and is smaller and lighter than even a light crossbow (maybe it does 1d10 dmg but can be wielded one handed like a hand crossbow, imagine the dual-wield lovin then). The technology to make this item has been lost, and only a handful are known to exist. Or, you know, whatever.

[Lord Dynel]

commanderFuron wrote:
Does magically cutting out the wall of a legendary dungeon for your house count as a non magical artifact. If said dungeon had an awesome mural on it?

Sounds like something my players tried once in the freakin' Haunted Halls of Eveningstar, and a moving mural. Silly kids.
_________________
LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

[ThrorII]

I agree with anglefish: In my Greyhawk 576CY campaign I'm running, most of my players only see masterwork weapons (+1 to hit) or 'double masterwork' weapons (+1 hit/damage). They've come across a few 'real' magic weapons. I keep true magic weapons rare. Each has a history and name (even if they haven't discovered it yet)

One such magic weapon was the 'Scimitar of the Gnarley', which belonged to the druid Argus "Guardian of the Gnarley" (in my heavily modified 'Verdant Rage' adventure). The players actually were VERY reverent of the item, so much so that they gave it to the elven high druidess of the Gnarley Forest, to hold it until the new Guardian of the Gnarley was found.

I think that a non-magical artifact could have in-game 'non magical' benefits, if desired.
For example: A legendary sword (say the "Sword of Knut") was borne by the Snow Barbarian warrior-hero Knut Olafson. Knut was able to unite the Frost, Snow and Ice barbarians under his banner. Knut was lost in the mountains during a battle with frost giants, him and the sword fell in to a glacial rift. The various barbarian kingdoms split up again and the sword was lost in time. The legend says that "He who bears the Sword of Knut may unite the jarls".

While the Sword of Knut is non-magical, I would say that the bearer of it would gain a bonus to charisma checks with northern barbarians. Forces under the sword bearer would gain a moral bonus in combat (if moral is used in your campaign). I might even give the bearer some sort of bard-like inspire bonuses, while in barbarian lands, just from the confidence-boost of having the sword and it's affect on those around him.

So, yes, a non-magical item can have 'magic-like' effects in game.

[anglefish]

Omote wrote:
Thanks for the input!

But, how do I convey that to players who are usually looking for standard C&C magic items?

~O

Call me silly, but just tell your players as a GM. Now adays, if there's something that's key in my game, I rely on in-game stuff to REINFORCE, what I've said as a GM. Never as something to introduce an idea.

9 times out of 10, the players misunderstand or just miss it and I have to spell it out anyways, so why give myself the frustration.

And thanks for the kudos.

[CKDad]

anglefish wrote:
I think if you describe the sword as a cultural treasure, more players would get the hint that the sword's main benefit is the prestige that comes with it.

Not sure this was in response to my post, but for clarity's sake, virtually no one alive in the world knows what the big stone sword is - but it isn't a cultural treasure. It's a combination of directions to someplace and a key - but figuring that out is one of the mysteries they have to unravel.
_________________
"I don't wanna be remembered as the guy who died because he underestimated the threat posed by a monkey."

[Wasgo]

Omote wrote:
In a game that I am looking to run, at least in theory there are going to be a lot of items like this. I don't think that the game will be low-powered per se, but to keep certain aspects more down-to-earth, artifacts like this will be more prevalent.

I guess I need to, on the onset of the adventure, kind of set in the fact that the item/s in question are culturally significant. But, how do I convey that to players who are usually looking for standard C&C magic items? And how do I tell them that the significance to the item in not in it's ability to alter the mechanics of the game, but can be used for dynamic roleplaying purposes? Perhaps the best way to convey the role playing power of the item is to have NPCs react to the players possessing the item. But you see, I dont want to necessarily do that. I want the players to realize with out spoon-feeding them, the significance of the item and on their own roleplay those non-mechanical benfits.

My question is, are you being fair to your players? While I recognize that you see their reward and quest as being significant, do they? If they end up with a item, that from their perspective offers no benefit at all, they're going to feel upset. While you want them to figure it out for themselves, they're trying to figure it out the only way they know how, so they're looking for in-game benefits. If they've never encountered a reward with only role-play benefits, there is no reason to believe they would even consider such a possibility when trying to understand the item.

The other, broader question you need to ask is if your players want to role-play in as setting where artifacts offer no in-game benefit. If they see improving their stats as an important part of RPGs, suggesting that they should want to quest for items that offer no benefit is going to upset them. You need to consider that you may be attempt to force them to role-play in a way that they don't want to.