For Shame TLG!

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:15 pm

jman5000 wrote:
son is now faced with the following

- spells that don't exist

- monsters that have no writeup

- multi-classing

- no idea what appropriate characters are for this module

kid has no prior experience. kid will use (imo) most of the names, regions etc from the module as is. Kid has no idea that these names are part of an existing campaign world.. Kid doesn't know that the Darkenfold is part of Erde and ergo, the monsters he knows nothing about is also part of Erde.

you don't see a problem Danger, because you are experienced. I have a problem because its incomplete, and incompatible with prior printings.

Actually, many of us don't see the problem here because we remember starting out at a very young age, in my case 7-8, and not always having complete rules in OD&D or AD&D. Know what we did? Bear in mind that none of us had a more experienced mentor to go too (not too many of those around in those days) and no internet to ask questions on. And I practically grew up in a game shop.

We made it up. If something didn't make sense we either ignored it, or made something up that did.

It never would have occurred to me, for example, to write TSR at the time and ask people how to do something.

But as for the A series and related modules. Yes, most of those do have a lot of odd things in them, the same as Casey's Haunted Highlands. And that is because they are 'home' campaign settings. And that's where information that expands a bit out of the C&C baseline is going to go.

There is a very specific set of modules that are written for C&C, without home campaign rules included, available. They have the "U" title.
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:19 pm

Folks... this thread has spun COMPLETELY out of control. Let's all step back and try and get a bit of perspective one this.

I know that Steve and the crew are trying but seriously folks, TLG is up against the wall. We are all passionate fans and we love our game but consider recent threads, posts, and decisions.

Try and read between the lines because in my mind, things are pretty grim. I'm not talking about this incident... I'm not talking about the 'what is core' and what is not either.

Give them the room to breathe.

Steve and TLG are great folks but this isn't a hobby for them. It's a business that grew out of a love for a hobby.

For all of us who are fans... let's support the game the best we can and help each other. So many people who come to these forums comment that the people here are great... the company is great... etc. With some of these recent hot topics, I think things have begun to degenerate.

If there's a reference to something you don't have... say an Ungern... come up on the boards and ask: 'Where can I find the stats for an Ungern' or 'What is an Ungern... I don't seem to have the stats for it'.

At which point, hopefully someone will point out the reference... (perhaps provide a link to RPG Now) or maybe even say something like: 'It's like a 2HD Orc but stronger with horns -- they carry a huge-ass axe that does massive amounts of damage'. Or something basic like that.

It's not an ideal situation and before someone argues on that comment, the intent behind it is to come together and help each other out. Between that and spreading the word of the game, we'll go a long way. I also know that not everyone has access or checks these forums but I did say that this wasn't a perfect answer.

TLG is a great company because they listen, participate, and even ask for our thoughts and opinions. At the same time though, they need to have that precious time with a focus on the big picture.

Despite the immediate attention to projects they are trying to get out of the way, rest assured that they will do something for us. They will support the efforts at running events... they recognize the need to ensure that a situation like the topic of this thread and a situation like the module doesn't repeat itself.

In the meantime, Steve and my fellow crusaders... I'm here if and when you need me.

Peace folks!

M
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:22 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
Actually, many of us don't see the problem here because we remember starting out at a very young age, in my case 7-8, and not always having complete rules in OD&D or AD&D. Know what we did? Bear in mind that none of us had a more experienced mentor to go too (not too many of those around in those days) and no internet to ask questions on. And I practically grew up in a game shop.

We made it up. If something didn't make sense we either ignored it, or made something up that did.

In complete agreement there. I remember when I first movd to AD&D. It was over a year before I got all three "core" books bt that didn't stop me or my group from playing the hell outta some AD&D.

jman5000 · Post by **jman5000** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:26 pm

you very well could be right Danger.

I don't know.

I suspect that the concept of a "module" is not really even all that thought about any more - much of it'ss format and purpose is just assumed, because that's the way it always was...

I'm really looking forward to sharing C&C to 12-18 people who've never played it before. the success of C&C in that case is way more dependent on my ability to GM than any f'ed up single 3 line section in a $5.00 module.

the whole "mission statment" of this convention is "Something new..." in which we are trying really really hard to promote indy press, dirty hippie role playing games and having the fans play stuff they have never played before. C&C totally fits within the mission statement.

We have robin laws running a play test of his new game. and 2 other indy game designers showing up as well. We are expecting over 150 attendees. this is not planned to be a 20 buddies in a basement con. My desire for the conventions professionalism I think rubbed off on the game I was playing somewhat. Anyway...

Philosophically, I agree, its a niche within a niche. I also think about the newspaper industry. doing things the way they have always done things while their entire industry is burning down around them... I sometimes wonder how much the 2 are related to one another... Doing things a certain way because thats the way its done does not always jive with me personally or professionally.

Cheers,

J.

jman5000 · Post by **jman5000** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:31 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
There is a very specific set of modules that are written for C&C, without home campaign rules included, available. They have the "U" title.

Cool. can you show me ( a link would be great) where on www.trolllord.com the distinction is made between the various lettering designations and what they mean and the assumed "prior knowledge" one must have in order to effectively run/play in them.

I'm totally prepared to eat crow and vocally admit I was wrong at this point if there is a section, link or reference to what I should know. Also I would appreciate what "letter" the LofD module is. I can't seem to see it on the PDF download I currently own.

Just show me where on the official web site where this claim is made.

cheers,

J.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:44 pm

jman5000 wrote:
Cool. can you show me ( a link would be great) where on www.trolllord.com the distinction is made between the various lettering designations and what they mean and the assumed "prior knowledge" one must have in order to effectively run/play in them.

I'm totally prepared to eat crow and vocally admit I was wrong at this point if there is a section, link or reference to what I should know. Also I would appreciate what "letter" the LofD module is. I can't seem to see it on the PDF download I currently own.

Just show me where on the official web site where this claim is made.

cheers,

J.

Not sure its on the website. Probably for the same reason it doesn't say 'you need this specific book to run a game'. Someone did ask, on the forums, a ways back, what the designations of the lettering meant.

The A series has always been set in Airhde. That's a given by the place names and the fact that there is the odd critter in those books not in the M&T. There are a whole row of critter pdfs that cover these creatures however.

Same with the C series set largely in the Darkenfold area so far.

The I series, set in Inzae, Is Davis's campaign setting.

Casey's DB series is entirely his own campaign setting. Which, funny enough, does have its own heading on the site.

The U series, for Universal, if I recall correctly. These modules adhere solidly to the C&C baseline and don't contain stuff outside of the books that I am aware off.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley