Troll Lord Games

This is a bit off topic & a little odd, but with everyone here I'm sure someone knows this, well I hope anyway)

In my latest attempt to avoid homework, I caught the bug of trying to find historic costs of armor, weapons etc. I've found a TON of information on ancient (Greek, Roman, Byzantine etc) coins and even info on how much a bushel of wheat, ton of tea,a 1/2L 1L & a vat of wine, loaf of bread etc costs, (in English lbs & grams silver) from the 1200s, I've found how much a farm worker, a common (light/inexperienced), a heavy, and a veteran solder, a lawyer, etc earned all the way back to Republic Roman & Greek time. However, I can't find out how much a soldiers kit, a sword, or armor costs. I've even found how much a soldiers shoes with and with out hobnails cost... but no weapons or armor.

Does any here know or have a good place for me to look?

Thanks
_________________
"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain

Forgive all spelling errors.

Knight Errant & Humble C&C Society Contributor
C&C Society

THIS might be helpful.

DangerDwarf wrote:
THIS might be helpful.

Awesome! I lost that book mark with my June crash!
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

DangerDwarf wrote:
THIS might be helpful.

Wow, very nice. Thanks! It's no 'ancient rome, but I cna at least use it as a base line.
_________________
"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain

Forgive all spelling errors.

Knight Errant & Humble C&C Society Contributor
C&C Society

I read some where back when I was trying to figure out stuff very similar to what you are doing and discovered that a longsword was priced in the range of 40 silver coins.

I would really love to see your compiled notes.

I have been dying to put together a arms and armor guide for my home world

I had high hopes for a book by High moon pub but it failed the Falchion test.

Anyone that knows anything about various swords ( I mean beyond the gamer) will know that a Falchion did not weigh 16lbs and was not a 2h weapon.

If anything the falchion was a bit shorter than the average longsword and was preferred by many knights as it had a sweet spot for cleaving.

Any ways- I'd love to see what you have got.

So, in the 12th century, a coat of mail cost about 100 shillings, or 5 troy lbs of silver (20s to a troy lb of silver).

In C&C (D&D) parlance, 5 troy lbs of silver is just a hair over 4 lbs. of C&C (D&D silver), or 64 sp (1 oz coin x 16 oz per lb).

64 sp, compaired to 1500 sp (150 gp) in C&C (D&D) terms.

In the 14th century, a "cheap sword" cost 6d (6 pennies, or .025 troy pounds of silver).

.025 troy pounds is about 1/3 of a standard ounce.

1/3 ounce of silver, in C&C (D&D) terms, is 1/3 of a silver piece, or about 3 copper pieces.

Armor is 23 times more expensive in C&C and a sword is 500 times more expensive.

I guess one could say with all those dragon hoards and dwarf mines, silver and gold are much more common, creating inflation.

interesting link and interesting apples to oranges discussion

ThrorII wrote:
So, in the 12th century, a coat of mail cost about 100 shillings, or 5 troy lbs of silver (20s to a troy lb of silver).

In C&C (D&D) parlance, 5 troy lbs of silver is just a hair over 4 lbs. of C&C (D&D silver), or 64 sp (1 oz coin x 16 oz per lb).

64 sp, compaired to 1500 sp (150 gp) in C&C (D&D) terms.

In the 14th century, a "cheap sword" cost 6d (6 pennies, or .025 troy pounds of silver).

.025 troy pounds is about 1/3 of a standard ounce.

1/3 ounce of silver, in C&C (D&D) terms, is 1/3 of a silver piece, or about 3 copper pieces.

Armor is 23 times more expensive in C&C and a sword is 500 times more expensive.

I guess one could say with all those dragon hoards and dwarf mines, silver and gold are much more common, creating inflation.

interesting link and interesting apples to oranges discussion

We can discuss this at Random Con in July, see my sig for specifics.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

Quote:
Anyone that knows anything about various swords ( I mean beyond the gamer) will know that a Falchion did not weigh 16lbs and was not a 2h weapon.

If anything the falchion was a bit shorter than the average longsword and was preferred by many knights as it had a sweet spot for cleaving.

Wulf I agree with you on the Falchon, I can't believe it's cost in the PHB. It was a commoners weapon that some knights (that didn't worry about style) favored. Not flashy or prestigious just real good at hacking through armor

Right now all my notes are if x costs 2 British lbs and that is y in ounces silver then it would be z in denarii. Very jumbled and crude.

After next month I'm taking a break from college classes and focusing on cleping so I won't be writing multiple papers each month. If I have a chance I'll clean up my notes and send them your way.

Quote:
Armor is 23 times more expensive in C&C and a sword is 500 times more expensive.

I guess one could say with all those dragon hoards and dwarf mines, silver and gold are much more common, creating inflation.

interesting link and interesting apples to oranges discussion

definitely apples to oranges. First thing is converting everything to silver (gold was for buying large amounts of things or uber expensive things not paying commoners wages) then getting a realistic price. If a common soldier was paid less than 1 silver a day he'd never afford a dagger much less armor and a sword under normal game prices.
_________________
"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain

Forgive all spelling errors.

Knight Errant & Humble C&C Society Contributor
C&C Society

The Fordham sourcebook must be used with caution, as it does not clearly indicate what coinage is under consideration, which is a big deal when you are talking about Frankish silver coins versus English silver coins. In the twelfth century, a mail coat was valued at about 480 (2) silver sterling pennies, which is to say 40 shillings. The debased Frankish coinage might value that at 100 shillings, having only half or less the silver content. Forty silver coins sounds about right for a war sword in the fourteenth century, but in the twelfth century it was likely more expensive, and before that a lot more. This thread discusses the subject as part of its investigation: Campaign Economics.
_________________
It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after ones own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350)

Nice thread and quite a bit of useful information guys.

Thanks to all.

Matthew

Thanks for cross posting that, some good info there.

You've hit the nail on the head by referring to debased coins etc when comparing costs from different eras. One of the best things I've found is comparing the cost of specific equipment to more common items (ie a helmet was worth the same amount as a cow, -that was mentioned in 3 different places for different time frames and coin base) Then you have a base line you can use to adjust the price off of no matter what the local coin value is.

As I keep researching this I'm coming to the conclusion that for a realistic economy to work that is based off silver then gold pieces will be very valuable and much more rare than in the standard game world. Also starting coin will be significantly lower than a standard game world.
_________________
"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain

Forgive all spelling errors.

Knight Errant & Humble C&C Society Contributor
C&C Society