Troll Lord Games

Hey guys,

I'd like to offer the suggestion for a "Wilderlands of High Adventure" Compendium. Basically, take all the stuff AGP published, which was a bunch of smaller (page count) offerings for C&C and combine them into a single book. Now that James Mishler has closed down shop, there'd be no publishing conflict, and I'm sure he wouldn't mind seeing the stuff kept alive (not to mention whatever royalty it'd generate, but I don't know a lot about that end of things).

I only learned about that line of materials recently, ironically after AGP closed down, but it all looks pretty cool, and if the materials all got bundled together into a book, I'd certainly buy a copy, and bet others would, too.

Wuddya think?

Judging by what James said when shutting down he would be lucky to sell 4 copies.

Heck, I have already bought multiple copies of everything. in a fair number of cases 4 copies.

I have to admit a HC compilation appeals to me, but I doubt James will bother with it.
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Well, two things come immediately to mind.

First, I was referring, of course, to Troll Lords doing the publishing, bringing the stuff into the fold, so to speak, and...

Two, I'm a prolific collector. I've been a fan of C&C for a few years now, have bought just about everything they've published, and I tend to keep up on most, if not all, of the RPG industry's comings and goings (except for the glut of d20 garbage that flooded the market during the recently deceased dark plague). And yet, despite all that, I'd never even heard of the WoHA stuff until about a week ago. Trust me, that says a lot. In other words, I greatly suspect it didn't sell well because AGP did little, if any, advertising, and there wasn't any word-of-mouth to speak of.

Now, if the stuff got bundled into a book and published by TLG, people would know about it. I'm not saying it'd hit the NY Times bestseller list or anything, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that it'd hold its own as well as any other TLG published C&C material. And heck, it's already written!

And even if it ultimately didn't do well, there are enough of us die-hards to wipe-out a first printing.
Edit: Dang typos...

I would buy that.

I'd buy it also.

We're up to six, Tree. :p

I'm in. 7 sold.
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Hmm, I already have this stuff, so no. While I understand the reasoning behind the closure of AGP, I'm still a little miffed about AGPs publishing practices. I'm just glad I never fell for that subscritpion nonsense. No offense intended to those who did.

~O
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While I will not presume to speak for James:

- There is a question of the Wilderlands license... that property is owned by Judges Guild and any company or person seeking to publish anything would need to acquire said license and permission first. TLG would need to do this.

- Since a company like TLG is not really running a POD operation, they would need to justify a print run as well as any additional editing / layout / and art they see it would need. Sure, it could be printed mostly as it, with minimal to no editing and pretty much without art but if it is being measured up to the other stuff they produce, it has to be of comparable quality. Regardless, it would be an investment and based on the lack of success and a few really good efforts that AGP did put forth, it may not be a good investment when there are other projects that NEED to see the light of day.

I would love to see a compilation volume personally but I really don't see TLG doing it. At this point, we can't say for certain what will happen to the material since a lot of this may still be transferred (in terms of rights) from AGP to the hands of another individual or company.

Hell, if it stays within Misher's hands and he is so inclined to, I suppose there is nothing stopping him from doing a compilation and just offering it via a POD himself.

If you loved his stuff and want to encourage his writing, tell him how much you loved him. Don't bother with suggesting what he should or shouldn't do with it because that would be the last thing he probably wants to hear. If you have just stumbled upon it, then support it (get the stuff second hand or via RPG Now while you still can). Spread the word and check out the older Judge's Guild stuff if you haven't already.

M
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James Mishner wrote:
It is with great regret that I announce the closure of Adventure Games Publishing. Print product sales end immediately. PDF products remain available on the AGP DriveThruRPG site through the end of March, then migrate to either the Judges Guild or Troll Lord Games sites on DriveThruRPG (those of you who already purchased them will continue to be able to download them). After that date, Judges Guild and/or Troll Lord Games might continue to make print versions of these products available or not; that is their call, not mine. As all the details about the transfer of properties are still being worked out, please do not inquire after them about these items for several weeks after the transfer.

Interestingly enough, I didn't notice the bit about TLG being a possibility when I started this thread, but I see even JM had the same idea.

moriarty777 wrote:
There is a question of the Wilderlands license... that property is owned by Judges Guild and any company or person seeking to publish anything would need to acquire said license and permission first. TLG would need to do this.

I suppose, but let's not forget that WoHA was based on WoHF, and is not an actual WoHF product. Semantics, sure, but worth noting. Besides, I really have no doubt Judges Guild (who hasn't published much of anything new for some time now) would like the idea. They've always been about the material, not the money. I think they'd find it very fitting if TLG reprinted the C&C related stuff.

Quote:
Since a company like TLG is not really running a POD operation, they would need to justify a print run as well as any additional editing / layout / and art they see it would need.

Well, like I said, I think the justifications for a first print run, at least, are there. Subsequent printings would certainly be based on sales (or at least on sales they know came from elsewhere, not just us buying up everything). As for the artwork, I'm all for keeping things as they are, and just adding some spiffy cover to the book.

Quote:
If you loved his stuff and want to encourage his writing, tell him how much you loved him. Don't bother with suggesting what he should or shouldn't do with it because that would be the last thing he probably wants to hear.

Heh, yeah, he makes it pretty clear in his statement that he wants to distance himself from everything and try to forget about it.

Quote:
If you have just stumbled upon it, then support it (get the stuff second hand or via RPG Now while you still can).

That's actually what got me thinking about the TLG idea in the first place. I poked around looking for copies of the stuff, but not all of it is available (deadtree). Bits-n-pieces, yes, but not everything (not to mention I can't find a full checklist of everything that was printed). I'm also not thrilled with paying Noble Knight type pricing. say what you will about Aaron, he's a nice guy, but his prices are often outrageous.

Kurgan wrote:
I suppose, but let's not forget that WoHA was based on WoHF, and is not an actual WoHF product. Semantics, sure, but worth noting. Besides, I really have no doubt Judges Guild (who hasn't published much of anything new for some time now) would like the idea. They've always been about the material, not the money. I think they'd find it very fitting if TLG reprinted the C&C related stuff.

I'm sure they wouldn't and they have been more than happy to provide permissions and a license to Necromancer Games, Goodman Games, and AGP in the past. Despite the fact that WoHA is based on WoHF doesn't change the fact that permissions were secured.

Kurgan wrote:
Well, like I said, I think the justifications for a first print run, at least, are there. Subsequent printings would certainly be based on sales (or at least on sales they know came from elsewhere, not just us buying up everything). As for the artwork, I'm all for keeping things as they are, and just adding some spiffy cover to the book.

To sell it to a larger audience, they would need to spruce up the look. As it stands, the material is very spartan when it comes to art. I should indicate that by 'a larger audience', I mean doing what needs to be done to get noticed and distributed in retail stores and networks.

Unfortunately, I think that TLG has seen there ISN'T enough of a demand for it by the virtue of AGP closing its doors. They could also look at the limited support that Goodman Games gave the Wilderlands and even Necromancer Games. That said, I believe that Castles & Crusades is a better fit for the Wilderlands than what the other companies were doing for it.

If TLG end up being the ones that could reprint if they chose to, I suspect it would be a tiny run for a smaller con event or for their annual x-mas sale (like they did for those Crusader compilations). At that point they wouldn't bother with the art or anything or just reuse some art they already had on hand but they certainly (and sadly) wouldn't make much money from their efforts.

A bunch of us have tried to spread the word... and MANY people follow blogs like Grognardia who have frequently reviewed and gave positive reviews of all this material. Despite that, interest in this material hasn't grown.

That said, I do hope I am proven wrong and that TLG (or someone else) picks up that ball and runs with it. It would certainly be nice and there are a loyal bunch of us that would happily continue to support the effort.

M
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"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

I think it would be an interesting thing to own, and would not mind having that option, but I have not been spending any money on anything game related for quite some time now, so... I probably would not actually buy it, to be brutal and honest. James does good work, though.
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Judges Guild has 3 new products coming out in the next year, if I recall correctly one is even a sequel to Tegal Manor. Since I am running a new Wilderlands Campaign I have been paying attention.
http://www.acaeum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9676
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Treebore wrote:
Judges Guild has 3 new products coming out in the next year, if I recall correctly one is even a sequel to Tegal Manor. Since I am running a new Wilderlands Campaign I have been paying attention.
http://www.acaeum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9676

Also, I think the old Inferno is being redone/expanded. So I know where the campaign might finish up Ended the first in the abyss, end the next in the Hells.

That City of the Sea Kings sounds interesting
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Aramis wrote:
Also, I think the old Inferno is being redone/expanded. So I know where the campaign might finish up Ended the first in the abyss, end the next in the Hells.

That City of the Sea Kings sounds interesting

Yes, he is expanding upon Inferno. My wife was looking to do artwork for him, but it didn't happen.
http://www.spellbookgames.com/products.html
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