Troll Lord Games

I have absolutely no artistic talent, heck even my stick figures look like deformed slimes. So my question is would it be possible to learn how to draw or do I need at least a minimum amount of talent upon which to build

Ken
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My wife and daughter keep telling me I can learn even though I have no talent. I haven't been able to believe them enough to try.

Talent is required, but sometime we have to practice to bring that talent out. Just because you work on somthing, and don;t like the results doesn;t mean that your next attempt won't be better. Talent is needed, but one must work at talent as well.

..................................................Omote

FPQ
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Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

No. Talent isn't required to learn to become an artist. One can become 'technically' proficient by dint of much practice. My high school art teacher was one of this sort.

What separates talent from technical skill, however, is the amount of training required.

There are those who are simply born with more perceptual hand eye coordination than others.
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Peter Bradley

I teach art and graphic design and have for 15 years. Like any other skill, art can be learned. This is most true if you're talking about technique, anybody can learn it, most zoos even have an animal or two that they've taught how to paint.

The hard part is creativity. A good way to learn that is just to expose yourself to lots of different types of art.

That's what art school used to be... students would get a medium to work in (oils, charcoal, etc) and would be told to go in the museum and copy paintings.

But again, its like any other skill, throwing a curve ball, playing music, writing, etc.

I love your avatar. Is it personally designed or something from a product?

Toledo, Ohio? Man! There are so many C&C players in Ohio. I'm going to have to organize a C&C game day or weekend the next time I visit my family in Norwalk/Sandusky.

One can learn to draw, but the hardest part is to learn to draw what one cannot see, but is only in the mind. That is where technique, and technical ability comes in. Otherwise, one is just doing repetition and duplication... or, in a way, tracing reality. That's a reason I don't consider many still life artists to be talented... or really, even artistic. Its not "new."

I think anyone with dedication can be an artist. But if you want to make a living at it or be world renowned, then I think It's going to require some talent.

But, I'm an engineer, what do I know about art?

Someone on this board said that anyone could become a master of any field in 10 years. I think I would agree with that in general -- but without talent it will be 10 years of dedication and work.

I have a 5 year old nephew who is drawing some really good stuff. I showed a dragon that he drew to Peter at the last LGGC. He said he had a good sense of proportion.

That "master in any field in ten years" was in response to a research article report.

Treebore wrote:
There are so many C&C players in Ohio. I'm going to have to organize a C&C game day or weekend the next time I visit my family in Norwalk/Sandusky.

Let's do it. There are alos a damn fine number of conventions in ohio where we could homebase a Ohio C&C Con. Yeah!

......................................Omote

FPQ
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Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Origins is a great con. There was a small Troll booth there. I can't find any C&C stuff at local game stores here though. Probably more in the bigger cities like Columbus or Cleveland.

Technique can be inovative too. Most art schools scoff at 'Fantasy Art' as being unoriginal (been there), but artsits like Peter Bradley develope new techniques that keep the genre exciting. Picasso's still life's for example, were totally original and innovative and changed the world of art even though it was just still life.

Imho

I think anyone can be a good artist without natural talent. But you need talent to be a great artist.

Much like mathematics, of which I have first hand experience.
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Omote wrote:
Let's do it. There are alos a damn fine number of conventions in ohio where we could homebase a Ohio C&C Con. Yeah!

......................................Omote

FPQ

Don't tell my wife, but I am angling for being in Ohio at the same time Origins is going on next year.

See, I am also trying to make the LGGC and Troll Con V next year, so I am going to use one of my wifes tricks, that she has used for getting to dog shows. The "Gee, since we just happen to be here why don't I go to..." trick. Its about time I get to pull it on her after so many years of her doing it to me. Of course it got to be so "old" whenever we went on a road trip and my wife decided that one, or three, of the dogs should go, I KNEW a dog show was near our destination.

Plus she seems to forget that I know you have to register your dog for these things several weeks in advance.

Yeah, definitely my turn. I hope she has a dog show she "happens" to want to go to the weekend of Origins. Then I'll get to watch her face when I tell her it just so "happens" that there is a great Game Convention going on down near Columbus that I am going to instead.

Origins is a great place to host a C&C con. It's obviously very centralized in an area of RPGers. Origins isn't trying to rival GenCon rival anymore, but it's still a decent con. Plus, you can thank me personally (or not) for having a hand in Origins lowering their sunday prices this year...
.......................................Omote

FPQ
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Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Talent isn't required - everyone can be an artist. The secret is to learn the techniques (ideally together with a good teacher), to have a creative mind and to choose an artistic genre (is that the correct term?) that you like and that suits you. It might take a while to find it and perhaps you'll likely be disappointed more than once, but if you're determined then you'll find something in the end. I did, and I know others who did too.

The only difference is that if you're also talented, then you might become an outstanding artist....

I believe that with good training and practice, one can learn to vastly improve their drawing skills. I don't know if that makes one an "artist". I guess it depends where you want to go with improved drawing skills.

For purposes of the poll, I voted that talent is not required - thinking more along the lines of answering the question in your post.

However, it does seem like some talent is required to be an artist!
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"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

The definition of "artist" is entirely important. If, for example, one considers Jackson Pollock an artist or not, or, someone like Christo. For me, neither of them is especially talented, but they are artistic, nonetheless (though I do not, personally, find Christo's work to be anything but boring...).

SirClarence wrote:
The only difference is that if you're also talented, then you might become an outstanding artist....

Yup.
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serleran wrote:
The definition of "artist" is entirely important. If, for example, one considers Jackson Pollock an artist or not, or, someone like Christo. For me, neither of them is especially talented, but they are artistic, nonetheless (though I do not, personally, find Christo's work to be anything but boring...).

That's the entire conundrum of art, somethings maybe art to some and not art to others.

(Not in reference to anyone here...but rather to some "famous" artists that I dont get.)-->

The problem with art too is that most of the time people are too nice to tell you that your art sucks.

And thus make excuses like "oh that art is so passionate." (right.) which then perpetuates that particular artist into some limelight because one critic who maybe a big shot critic says so then many critics start to say so because they are afraid they dont see what that one critic see.

..typical emperor's new clothes effect.

In generality, it's such a pretentious industry.

Miniature painting on the other hand, is a little more constrained. There's pretty much two styles right now,

1. Confrontation, GW style - for the lack of a better term "Cartoony"

2. Realistic.

I prefer the cartoony style myself , because its more fun to paint. Realism is nice and all but then everything generally has the same pallete and the colours are so dull and boring to paint.
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I'm no artist, but from watching andrea develop her skills, I'd say practice makes perfect. (She often puts in about 2 hours per day drawing pics.)

As for me...I just dabble in drawing from time to time (see below).

Brian Miller
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"The adventure continues"

angelius wrote:
In generality, it's such a pretentious industry.

Quite so. This is why I avoided going into the whole 'fine art' area.

I draw for two reasons. 1) I enjoy it 2) I get to draw some outstanding looking chicks with a minimum of clothing on.

I am a pretty basic sort of fellow after all.
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Peter Bradley

Well Brian your a heck of a lot better than I am. I'm barely above stick figures.

Treebore wrote:
Well Brian your a heck of a lot better than I am. I'm barely above stick figures.

Laura can paint, do computer graphics, shade, has a great eye for colors, and draws nice backgrounds. I just draw pencil sketches of muscular people and monsters...And Andrea, she does it all.
Brian Miller
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"The adventure continues"

I'm lucky if I can draw a straight line with a T-square nailed to my drafting board, with the pencil pressed against those nifty triangular architect rulers. I am a horrible artist... but I tend to have great "vision." Just wish I could put what my mind sees into pictures... probably why I try to describe which leads to well... monsters.

You guys are making me want to pick up my pencils again.
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angelius wrote:
You guys are making me want to pick up my pencils again.

Glad you did!
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"The adventure continues"

The Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood, an art movement in Enland during the 1800's was infamous for using prostitutes in their artwork, then for teaching the prostitutes to become proficent painters themselves.

Either it can be taught or they found some REALLY talented prostitutes!

Morty
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A Room Zoom Zoom. A Room Zoom Zoom. Gilly Gilly Gilly Gilly Ot Zat Za Come open the magic door with me, With your imagination there's so much we can see. There is a doorway that leads to a place. I'll find my way by the smile on your face.

cuchulainkevin wrote:
Either it can be taught or they found some REALLY talented prostitutes!

Morty

Well yeah, they can be taught certain tricks or have an inate talent, do'h. What's your point, Morty?
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Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

I am on the side that talent is not required. As an artist, I've learned that ultimately it is practice that really makes the artist. Sure, there are some that get a head start because they were born with a natural aptitude to be able to visualize things pretty well and it might give them a little more of an edge. However, art like so much else in life requires practice to be really good. Read the bios of professional working artists and you'll see that the one thing most of them have in common is that they spent a lot of time working at what they do. I just wish I had the time, heh. But I've been working pretty hard and I've noticed a marked increase in the strength of my style as I've learned new things.

Quote:
The Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood, an art movement in Enland during the 1800's was infamous for using prostitutes in their artwork, then for teaching the prostitutes to become proficent painters themselves.

Either it can be taught or they found some REALLY talented prostitutes!

Morty

I love the Pre-Raphaelite's but didn't know that. I guess I'll look at the paintings in a new light!

As to the question IMHO you can learn the act of doing anything but to be good you have to have talent. To be great it take both learning & talent.

I'm a shutterbug & take thousands of picts (thank God for D-SLR) I've read books & talked with pro's. I know how to take a pict. However at best mine are only of a style like a master (Ansal Adams the most) but out of the thousands of picts I have a hand full of truely good ones & none are Great!

I'd think painting & drawing would be even harder than pointing a camera and fuddeling with a few things then pushing the shutter.....
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